anyone mind if i start a fresh birther thread ??

[Toro]

the subject has been "tabood" here, but i think there may be something to the story. let's just discuss current relevancy. we can sort of "start fresh". does anyone have any theories on this topic ?? i don't know if you will be allowed to mention trump, but he's back.

for me it was always an interest in the president's character. as a musician/producer, i have seen many instances of "fake it till you make it".... to which i have compared obama for years, on my blog/website.

as the story begins to break, sometime soon, probably on fox, we can begin to assimilate the big picture on the "president" obama. many of you may become heartbroken over this candidate, because of his portended "transparency".

please post cogent, hostile/anger free comments (at least the ones directed towards me personally). if you are posting just to call me stupid or racist again, that's fine, you can do that, but i assure you that i have heard it all before. thank you friends and foe alike... scott e.

A Free Press for a Free People

You go, dude!

 

[Big Black Dog]

I truly believe the birth certificate presented by Obama is a fake. The evidence of that is clearly there. I also believe the reason so many people are reluctant to acknowledge the fact that the birth certificate is fake is because admitting to having been conned is too difficult for them to admit. Most folks don't cotton to having visible egg on their face. It's easier to keep the lie going then to accept the truth.

 

[washamericom]

the subject has been "tabood" here, but i think there may be something to the story. let's just discuss current relevancy. we can sort of "start fresh". does anyone have any theories on this topic ?? i don't know if you will be allowed to mention trump, but he's back.

for me it was always an interest in the president's character. as a musician/producer, i have seen many instances of "fake it till you make it".... to which i have compared obama for years, on my blog/website.

as the story begins to break, sometime soon, probably on fox, we can begin to assimilate the big picture on the "president" obama. many of you may become heartbroken over this candidate, because of his portended "transparency".

please post cogent, hostile/anger free comments (at least the ones directed towards me personally). if you are posting just to call me stupid or racist again, that's fine, you can do that, but i assure you that i have heard it all before. thank you friends and foe alike... scott e.

A Free Press for a Free People

Awhile back Washamericom gave me a negative rep for saying that birthers were nutjobs, which they are by the way.
Then he PMed me with Ivan Zatkovich's name. So I did some research and came across a forum from one of the blogs that was pushing the birth's claims about Obama's long form BC being fake.
In the forum there is an entry from Zatkovich and it reads as follows:

All of the modifications to the PDF document that can be identified are consistent with someone
enhancing the legibility of the document. It is possible that in addition to enhancing the legibility of the
document that the content of the document was also changed. There is no specific evidence of how or
why that content would have been changed, but the evidence clearly indicates that the document was
changed .
Signature
The forgoing report set forth my opinions as truthfully and accurately as possible for the time allotted
and based on the materials available.
April 29, 2011
Ivan Zatkovich

And then Ivan Zatkovich adds this:

I would be happy to discuss any information I provided to ABC and WorldNetDaily that is currently appearing on WND. I did not state that any document was ‘fake’. But I did provide specific evidence that the document was modified /enhanced. I would be happy to provide the same report to you as I did to ABC.

Even though the WND article seems to somewhat sensationalize the information I provided, there is no speculation here. Just simple forensics.

If you have any other questions you may call me directly.

Ivan Zatkovich
Principal Consultant
eComp Consultants
813-601-8142

Both of Zatkovich's comments can be found at;
PROOF!!! Alex Jones's "Experts" Are Incompetent Boobs , page 1

Zatkovich's conclusion from the WND article that he said that WND did "sensationalize" is the following:

He said, "This was done through an explicit operation to edit and/or enhance the printing in the document. There is no ambiguity here. There was an explicit action by a person to modify the document. … Mostly like to enhance the legibility, but still an explicit action none the less."
Online 'birth certificate' document 'was changed'

I'd say that the birthers like Washamericom and WND are using their own cherrypicking to try to legitimize their obsession.

i never said i wasn't going to have fun with this thread. i admit i have been dilligent (obsessive?? we'll see), but the comparisons and commonalities to watergate are growing, not fading. i think ivan may be the expert filing charges against the president, i just emailed him that very question, we'll see. i had forgotten that i neg repped you, thanks for reminding me.

dil·i·gent/ˈdilijənt/Adjective: Having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties

 

[kiwiman127]

I truly believe the birth certificate presented by Obama is a fake. The evidence of that is clearly there. I also believe the reason so many people are reluctant to acknowledge the fact that the birth certificate is fake is because admitting to having been conned is too difficult for them to admit. Most folks don't cotton to having visible egg on their face. It's easier to keep the lie going then to accept the truth.

Yet Ivan Zatkovich clearly has stated he never said it was fake and thinks that the reason the long form looked altered was to enhance the legibility of an old document. And this guy is the person that all the birthers are hanging their hat on.
Anyone who thinks the president of the US couldn't come up with a "perfect" copy of his long form BC, they are totally discounting the resources that Obama or any president has at the tip of their fingers to make a "perfect" copy. The guy holds the most powerful position in the world.

 

[Ravi]

I love the smell of fresh birfer thread in the morning.

 

[washamericom]

I truly believe the birth certificate presented by Obama is a fake. The evidence of that is clearly there. I also believe the reason so many people are reluctant to acknowledge the fact that the birth certificate is fake is because admitting to having been conned is too difficult for them to admit. Most folks don't cotton to having visible egg on their face. It's easier to keep the lie going then to accept the truth.

Yet Ivan Zatkovich clearly has stated he never said it was fake and thinks that the reason the long form looked altered was to enhance the legibility of an old document. And this guy is the person that all the birthers are hanging their hat on.
Anyone who thinks the president of the US couldn't come up with a "perfect" copy of his long form BC, they are totally discounting the resources that Obama or any president has at the tip of their fingers to make a "perfect" copy. The guy holds the most powerful position in the world.

this is where it get's complicated. first, ivan is one of thousands who believe the virtual document has been tampered with. he and corsi have driven towards complete analysis of the "original" that was flown to the white house with obama's lawyer, copied, released, then presumably returned to the vault in hawaii.

that "the president could facilitate the best forgery" is not an argument and is irrelevent. we have what we have. when the president posted the layered document of the federal white house tax-payer funded whitehouse.gov, it became a legal concern for the country. the rest will be a straight forward simple progression of applied/settled law.

remember zatkovich can only comment on the science of the document. you can check his case testimonies (click my link below). fox news on the other hand offered jean-claude tremblay (not the hockey player toto). you should check his credentials. i believe that fox news is playing cover up, exemplified by the overacted performances of sheppard smith and greg jarret, they both had an agenda, it's that obvious. as i told this board, i have spoken with zatkovich and i believe he is credible, just google him and tremblay.

mr. kiwiman, do you think the birth certificate at whitehouse gov is bona fide ??

 

[Toro]

Tremblay is a good center.

 

[kiwiman127]

I truly believe the birth certificate presented by Obama is a fake. The evidence of that is clearly there. I also believe the reason so many people are reluctant to acknowledge the fact that the birth certificate is fake is because admitting to having been conned is too difficult for them to admit. Most folks don't cotton to having visible egg on their face. It's easier to keep the lie going then to accept the truth.

Yet Ivan Zatkovich clearly has stated he never said it was fake and thinks that the reason the long form looked altered was to enhance the legibility of an old document. And this guy is the person that all the birthers are hanging their hat on.
Anyone who thinks the president of the US couldn't come up with a "perfect" copy of his long form BC, they are totally discounting the resources that Obama or any president has at the tip of their fingers to make a "perfect" copy. The guy holds the most powerful position in the world.

this is where it get's complicated. first, ivan is one of thousands who believe the virtual document has been tampered with. he and corsi have driven towards complete analysis of the "original" that was flown to the white house with obama's lawyer, copied, released, then presumably returned to the vault in hawaii.

that "the president could facilitate the best forgery" is not an argument and is irrelevent. we have what we have. when the president posted the layered document of the federal white house tax-payer funded whitehouse.gov, it became a legal concern for the country. the rest will be a straight forward simple progression of applied/settled law.

remember zatkovich can only comment on the science of the document. you can check his case testimonies (click my link below). fox news on the other hand offered jean-claude tremblay (not the hockey player toto). you should check his credentials. i believe that fox news is playing cover up, exemplified by the overacted performances of sheppard smith and greg jarret, they both had an agenda, it's that obvious. as i told this board, i have spoken with zatkovich and i believe he is credible, just google him and tremblay.

mr. kiwiman, do you think the birth certificate at whitehouse gov is bona fide ??

Yes I do. Anyone who has seen the original short form has said it's real, unlike all the Kenyan BCs that have been submitted that have beeen proven to be fake.
I would also like to state something I have posted often. I am no fan of many of Obama's politics and policies and have no intention of voting for him. Nor am I a fan of the far right. BUT I do think Obama has faced much more scrutiny than any other president. All this does is open a can of worms for future presidents. This distracts from the immense problems/issues facing this country and takes away from the public debate.

 

[washamericom]

Yet Ivan Zatkovich clearly has stated he never said it was fake and thinks that the reason the long form looked altered was to enhance the legibility of an old document. And this guy is the person that all the birthers are hanging their hat on.
Anyone who thinks the president of the US couldn't come up with a "perfect" copy of his long form BC, they are totally discounting the resources that Obama or any president has at the tip of their fingers to make a "perfect" copy. The guy holds the most powerful position in the world.

this is where it get's complicated. first, ivan is one of thousands who believe the virtual document has been tampered with. he and corsi have driven towards complete analysis of the "original" that was flown to the white house with obama's lawyer, copied, released, then presumably returned to the vault in hawaii.

that "the president could facilitate the best forgery" is not an argument and is irrelevent. we have what we have. when the president posted the layered document of the federal white house tax-payer funded whitehouse.gov, it became a legal concern for the country. the rest will be a straight forward simple progression of applied/settled law.

remember zatkovich can only comment on the science of the document. you can check his case testimonies (click my link below). fox news on the other hand offered jean-claude tremblay (not the hockey player toto). you should check his credentials. i believe that fox news is playing cover up, exemplified by the overacted performances of sheppard smith and greg jarret, they both had an agenda, it's that obvious. as i told this board, i have spoken with zatkovich and i believe he is credible, just google him and tremblay.

mr. kiwiman, do you think the birth certificate at whitehouse gov is bona fide ??

Yes I do. Anyone who has seen the original short form has said it's real, unlike all the Kenyan BCs that have been submitted that have beeen proven to be fake.
I would also like to state something I have posted often. I am no fan of many of Obama's politics and policies and have no intention of voting for him. Nor am I a fan of the far right. BUT I do think Obama has faced much more scrutiny than any other president. All this does is open a can of worms for future presidents. This distracts from the immense problems/issues facing this country and takes away from the public debate.

fair enough. if you think this is scrutiny, holy cow, just wait. huffington just picked it up a couple of hours ago, but again the story is about trump again, still not sure which side he's on. it's about the rule of american law now, it can't be stopped once charges are filed.

do yourself a favour, look at all of the information around the president, his general provenance, the records this transparent president has released, or not. don't you think this is a lot of attention and controversy for something that should have none ?? resd corsi's book, i assure you he is no rube. eventually, even for folks such as yourself, common sense must prevail.

 

[Ravi]

this is where it get's complicated. first, ivan is one of thousands who believe the virtual document has been tampered with. he and corsi have driven towards complete analysis of the "original" that was flown to the white house with obama's lawyer, copied, released, then presumably returned to the vault in hawaii.

that "the president could facilitate the best forgery" is not an argument and is irrelevent. we have what we have. when the president posted the layered document of the federal white house tax-payer funded whitehouse.gov, it became a legal concern for the country. the rest will be a straight forward simple progression of applied/settled law.

remember zatkovich can only comment on the science of the document. you can check his case testimonies (click my link below). fox news on the other hand offered jean-claude tremblay (not the hockey player toto). you should check his credentials. i believe that fox news is playing cover up, exemplified by the overacted performances of sheppard smith and greg jarret, they both had an agenda, it's that obvious. as i told this board, i have spoken with zatkovich and i believe he is credible, just google him and tremblay.

mr. kiwiman, do you think the birth certificate at whitehouse gov is bona fide ??

Yes I do. Anyone who has seen the original short form has said it's real, unlike all the Kenyan BCs that have been submitted that have beeen proven to be fake.
I would also like to state something I have posted often. I am no fan of many of Obama's politics and policies and have no intention of voting for him. Nor am I a fan of the far right. BUT I do think Obama has faced much more scrutiny than any other president. All this does is open a can of worms for future presidents. This distracts from the immense problems/issues facing this country and takes away from the public debate.

fair enough. if you think this is scrutiny, holy cow, just wait. huffington just picked it up a couple of hours ago, but again the story is about trump again, still not sure which side he's on. it's about the rule of american law now, it can't be stopped once charges are filed.

do yourself a favour, look at all of the information around the president, his general provenance, the records this transparent president has released, or not. don't you think this is a lot of attention and controversy for something that should have none ?? resd corsi's book, i assure you he is no rube. eventually, even for folks such as yourself, common sense must prevail.

Corsi isn't a rube....but he makes money off of rubes.

 

[kiwiman127]

Yes I do. Anyone who has seen the original short form has said it's real, unlike all the Kenyan BCs that have been submitted that have beeen proven to be fake.
I would also like to state something I have posted often. I am no fan of many of Obama's politics and policies and have no intention of voting for him. Nor am I a fan of the far right. BUT I do think Obama has faced much more scrutiny than any other president. All this does is open a can of worms for future presidents. This distracts from the immense problems/issues facing this country and takes away from the public debate.

fair enough. if you think this is scrutiny, holy cow, just wait. huffington just picked it up a couple of hours ago, but again the story is about trump again, still not sure which side he's on. it's about the rule of american law now, it can't be stopped once charges are filed.

do yourself a favour, look at all of the information around the president, his general provenance, the records this transparent president has released, or not. don't you think this is a lot of attention and controversy for something that should have none ?? resd corsi's book, i assure you he is no rube. eventually, even for folks such as yourself, common sense must prevail.

Corsi isn't a rube....but he makes money off of rubes.

Based on Corsi's history, he really doesn't have much credibility. I did a search on Google using the words Corsi + credibility,,,the results basically were that the guy has none.
Where as Zatkovich has much more credibility, no where has he made wild-eyed statements without evidence and he has stated that he never said the BC was fake.

 

[washamericom]

don't forget the original "birfers" were democrats for the mccain hit team, that should tell you something right there. soon some of you obama loyalists may be quite surprised, there is no stopping this now. the executive branch is in full panic/damage control mode as we speak. probably still won't make the evening news. you've got to admit, the eve of a great scandal in this land is always an exciting time, even if for the wrong reasons. i can't believe it's been almost a month of covering and misdirecting by the mainstream.

 

[washamericom]

fair enough. if you think this is scrutiny, holy cow, just wait. huffington just picked it up a couple of hours ago, but again the story is about trump again, still not sure which side he's on. it's about the rule of american law now, it can't be stopped once charges are filed.

do yourself a favour, look at all of the information around the president, his general provenance, the records this transparent president has released, or not. don't you think this is a lot of attention and controversy for something that should have none ?? resd corsi's book, i assure you he is no rube. eventually, even for folks such as yourself, common sense must prevail.

Corsi isn't a rube....but he makes money off of rubes.

Based on Corsi's history, he really doesn't have much credibility. Where as Zatkovich has much more credibility, no where has he made wild-eyed statement without evidence and he has stated that he never said the BC was fake.

did you check ivan's case history ??
corsi is spot on, i did notice that he has chester arthur born in burlington, but i think it's fairfield, vermont, i live pretty close to there in the summertime, i've seen the recreated birthsite, but there are questions about arthur's beginnings. i think corsi's is a reliable investigative journalist, we'll just have to wait and see, i guess it all depends on whether or not you think obama is honest, i never have.

 

[Spoonman]

As it stands right now, I won't be voting for Obama in 2012. But it's not the birther issues that will keep me from voting for him. It's the fact that I honestly don't believe he's done a good job. And probably more critical, I don't believe he's done the job he had the capabilty to do. Both with the support of the public and the desire to see real change the had and the fact he had a majority in congress. A lot of the things he talked about during his campaign were spot on, but he never brought it. In fact, for the most part he contradicted himself with his execution.

It hasn't all been his fault. he was young and inexperience and he had majority leaders on congress who sold him out.

 

[007]

At this point... right now... if what obama just recently released was a genuine facsimile of his "REAL" certificate of birth, then why, WHY not just SHOW THE ORIGINAL? What POSSIBLE difference would it make?

For all those on the other side of this issue, answer that one question.

 

[Spoonman]

At this point... right now... if what obama just recently released was a genuine facsimile of his "REAL" certificate of birth, then why, WHY not just SHOW THE ORIGINAL? What POSSIBLE difference would it make?

For all those on the other side of this issue, answer that one question.

honestly, I think it's deliberate. by just releasing the copy he has convinced the majority it's real. he doesn't care about the still doubting fringe who wouldn't vote for him regardless. he's content to let them complain with the hopes they continue to look more and more foolish. and any opposing candidate that jumps on the bandwagon he can attack as being a loon.

 

[Dr Grump]

At the end of the day, who gives a fuck. If a man whose mother is a fully fledged, bona fide US citizen who can trace her ancestory back to at least the 1840s isn't qualified to run your country, you all might as well pack up and go home....

 

[washamericom]

i give a fuck, so would the founding fathers. obama is simply not strong eough to keep this going. it may break today, or next week, but cover ups are eventually, systematically unraveled, as in the nixon case. the reason that obama wouldn't show it for years, then sent a lawyer to hawaii to pick it up, then fly it to d.c., have it copied, then flown right back to hawaii, is still unclear. i think it never existed. none of that matters. if the president used any federal means to cover his own provenance, he is a crook... sound familiar?? the president knows that there are people (like me) that will never stop until we know who he is. it has not been a popular stance, but i think most of you will appreciate us in the end. unfortunately for the president and the country, we are now just the dark storm coming over the hill.

remember, look for the overacting around the case. it's becoming less subtle as we go along. the performances by the players involved in the cover up (everyone in hawaii), including even some "journalists" a foxnews, are indicative of foul play. as i've said, this is about character and provenance, and now the caper is in the arena of science, names, dates, facts, and documents.

it's easy to say "obama's fine" he's a good guy, that's not good enough for me. there is a pattern to his deceit, time will eventually tell the entire truth, irrespective of the main stream press. follow your heart on this one, i have.
i am not crazy, and i'm not racist or biggoted, i hope soon that most of you will see that, for now we have to wait, and count on the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMLdrrC1-xs&feature=player_embedded#at=197

any arguments to this for you experts ??

here's a little tidbit for you conspiracy lovers. for the first time in nearly two years, i'm not able to publish my website. ??

 

[washamericom]

i just spoke to a woman in the white house coomunications office, i can tell you that there was a somber perception in the feeling of that phone call. i put in a request for an exclusive interview with the president. i offered to help break the news to the american people that "if the president wants to come clean, this would be a good time to do it".

i said to her "this must be a scary time for all of you" to which she replied "yes". i told her they should check my website, i have been posting the facts, that i am sure something is very wrong, that this is looking a lot like watergate, to which she replied "i can't really..."

i don't expect to get a reply to my request, but i can tell you that they are working on it.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=304117

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap..._2mLMg?docId=0c84e82c7a594e5a8e94e697d7091ff1

 

[Toro]

lol