another reason that teacher unions are failing our students

[Truthmatters]

I think teachers should get paid on their merit. Not weather or not a union says.. Today it doesnt matter if you suck at teaching as long as your in a union you have a job. NOT ANY OTHER profession is like this..

That is NOT an answer to what I asked.

if they OPT OUT of paying the union dues do they have to accept lower pay and benifits?

What part of LET THEM negotiate themselves dont you understand. Why do you have to have a union to do that for you. If you do a good job you will be rewarded for that job. My husband works for a non union . Only been at this company for 6 months but because he does his job well he already got a bonus and a raise . While others who have been there for years got very little raise and NO bonus because they slack off at work

You are refusing the anser the question asked.

I will try again.



There is a union and you dont want to pay the dues to be in it.

If we allow you NOT to pay the dues and teach anyway do you get the benifits the ohers pain to have negociated?

please just a yes or not for clairity?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No....YOU'RE the idiot.

Illinois is not a RTW state and teachers are not required to join a union.



Teacher Union Requirements - Are Teachers Required to Join a Teacher Union

But they are required to pay the dues

They are GETTING a SERVICE for those dues...legal protection, negotiated contracts, discounts on insurance, vacations, etc.

Here in CA, if you do not want to join the union, you don't have to....you pay a smaller dues for the lawyer protection, negotiation benefits, etc. My brother is a teacher here and was union rep for a while....he tells of a teacher here who hated the union, didn't join, bitched about paying the reduced dues.......but was always the FIRST to bitch about pay and "why isn't the union asking for more"...was the FIRST to need legal advice because he had a bad habit of pushing students...and was the most high maintenance teacher he represented. He was eventually forced to retire because of his behavior towards kids.

If you're good at what you do and work hard you dont need legal protection or any of the other things you mention. Union workers are a small portion of the work force. So how do all these people get by without them?
If you suck at what you do and you're a slacker.....I guess a union is the only way to keep a job.
It's been said countless times....unions where a good thing. Now? Not so much.

 

[g5000]

I'm a conservative, and if I were to teach, I would teach at a private school.

From what teachers who teach at public schools tell me, they are overburdened with an amazing amount of red tape and bureaucracy. And the word "meritocracy" is not in the system's vocabulary.

But "political" is.

 

[Mr Natural]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

 

[DaGoose]

And where did I say there are no conservatives in teaching?
While my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek(but there is some truth in it)What conservative in there right mind would want to work in an atmosphere like that?
Surrounded by a bunch of left wing kooks would hardly be my dream job.
Whatever that job may be...

Ok...so you "somewhat" stand by it.

That only shows how little you know about teachers, unions and the atmosphere they work in.

So you're a teacher? And you dont need to be a teacher to see the fruit cake shit they pull,all you have to do is read about it.
And I know plenty about union's. I've seen the crap they pull as well.

No smartass, but my wife is.

Do you have any idea how many "bosses" she has?

1) The Principal
2) The entire school board
3) Every parent that has a kid in that school
4) Every taxpayer

In total we're talking about 14,000 bosses.

And to top it off everyone of them have their own idea what should be taught, how it should be taught, who should teach what, how much they should be paid, how their classrooms should be set up, how many students they should teach, etc.

And none, save for the Principal, have near the education that teachers do.

 

[DaGoose]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

 

[Truthmatters]

why will they never answer that question I asked?

 

[Mr Natural]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to. If people want their kids to grow up to be losers, that's their business.

Just don't blame the teachers for it.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

Tell you what? Why don't more CONSERVATIVES get into the teaching profession?
It seems you have a problem with education because it is dominated by LIBERALS. Why is there no preponderance of conservatives in education instead of a preponderance of LIBERALS?
Perhaps it's the long hours, low pay and dismal social status that drives conservatives away from the teaching profession?
Perhaps it that, like cops and firefighters, some people are instinctively drawn to work that benefits their communitites more than it enriches them personally.

Ask yourself why there aren't more conservatives in the education game, before you eschew the people who show up and do the fricking job day in and day out while little jerks like you whine about them getting some JOB PROTECTION. And why do they need job protection? Oh, from people like you who constantly attack the profession.

Don't like the Liberal bias in education? Sign up to be a teacher.
Don't whine about it. That makes as much sense for a LIBERAL to whine about the conservative bias in the insurance industry.

Why? Simple

Because those who can do do, and those who can not, teach.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

I favor a two tier system of education. Put the losers and those who just can't or won't in one tier and who cares what they do. Reserve the upper tier for those who strive to be the best, and you can be kicked out of that tier at any time with no recourse if you don't do your part.

Split the teachers up the same way. Let losers teach losers and put the best teachers in the upper tier and set pay accordingly. You want to make more get off your ass and be a better teacher. Same as it works in every non government profession.

 

[DaGoose]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

I favor a two tier system of education. Put the losers and those who just can't or won't in one tier and who cares what they do. Reserve the upper tier for those who strive to be the best, and you can be kicked out of that tier at any time with no recourse if you don't do your part.

Split the teachers up the same way. Let losers teach losers and put the best teachers in the upper tier and set pay accordingly. You want to make more get off your ass and be a better teacher. Same as it works in every non government profession.

But that still begs the questions just what the criteria would be used and who would make the call.

Very few teachers are "bad". The ones that are generally make headlines. In many circumstances they have disagreements with the principal and gets bad evaluations in return. The Principal also decides which students go to which teachers. A good teacher can get the worst students which, in turn, can make the teacher look bad.

It's easy to say "better teachers get better pay". But when you start applying the nuts and bolts it starts getting complicated.

 

[paulitician]

Public Unions need to go. They only serve to rape the Taxpayers at this point. And the Teacher Unions are the worst of the worst. They are lazy & greedy, and they stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. It's time to abolish all Public Unions. Private Unions are another matter though. Holding the Taxpayers hostage is wrong, and that time has now passed.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

I favor a two tier system of education. Put the losers and those who just can't or won't in one tier and who cares what they do. Reserve the upper tier for those who strive to be the best, and you can be kicked out of that tier at any time with no recourse if you don't do your part.

Split the teachers up the same way. Let losers teach losers and put the best teachers in the upper tier and set pay accordingly. You want to make more get off your ass and be a better teacher. Same as it works in every non government profession.

But that still begs the questions just what the criteria would be used and who would make the call.

Very few teachers are "bad". The ones that are generally make headlines. In many circumstances they have disagreements with the principal and gets bad evaluations in return. The Principal also decides which students go to which teachers. A good teacher can get the worst students which, in turn, can make the teacher look bad.

It's easy to say "better teachers get better pay". But when you start applying the nuts and bolts it starts getting complicated.

That's what elected school boards are for. If they are making bad choices, elect a new school board.

It's not hard at all. Any other profession, your own performance is judged by how well you do your job. In this case the job is educating kids. Simple if your students aren't making good grades you've failed them and don't belong in the upper tier.

 

[paulitician]

And now the Dear Leader has just given the lazy/greedy Teacher Unions a gift by loosening Testing requirements. The Testing requirements will now be 'relaxed', and will no longer be used as a barometer to gauge if the teacher is doing their job or not. And that's exactly what the lazy Teacher Unions have been demanding for years. Now they can sit on their fat asses collecting their paychecks for doing nothing. It really was a shameful Election-Year gift from this shameful President. Public Unions gotta go. Period, end of story.

 

[bodecea]

If they are allowed to opt out of paying the dues do they have to forgo the benifits and pay scale the union negociated for the union members?

I think teachers should get paid on their merit. Not weather or not a union says.. Today it doesnt matter if you suck at teaching as long as your in a union you have a job. NOT ANY OTHER profession is like this..

How do you measure that?

 

[bodecea]

But they are required to pay the dues

They are GETTING a SERVICE for those dues...legal protection, negotiated contracts, discounts on insurance, vacations, etc.

Here in CA, if you do not want to join the union, you don't have to....you pay a smaller dues for the lawyer protection, negotiation benefits, etc. My brother is a teacher here and was union rep for a while....he tells of a teacher here who hated the union, didn't join, bitched about paying the reduced dues.......but was always the FIRST to bitch about pay and "why isn't the union asking for more"...was the FIRST to need legal advice because he had a bad habit of pushing students...and was the most high maintenance teacher he represented. He was eventually forced to retire because of his behavior towards kids.

Why cant the individual person negotiate their own benefits and not pay ANY DUES ..

Works for me...then they can work for less pay than those that negotiated in numbers. I'm sure the districts would like that.

 

[bodecea]

I think teachers should get paid on their merit. Not weather or not a union says.. Today it doesnt matter if you suck at teaching as long as your in a union you have a job. NOT ANY OTHER profession is like this..

Teachers didn't do their job with you?


BTW....where did you learn that union members can't lose their job? You were misinformed.

Hey, they can be fired but most schools dont fire them because they know the unions will tie them up in court and it will cost US taxpayers more then it will if they kept the teachers.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

 

[Mr Natural]

Teachers didn't do their job with you?


BTW....where did you learn that union members can't lose their job? You were misinformed.

Hey, they can be fired but most schools dont fire them because they know the unions will tie them up in court and it will cost US taxpayers more then it will if they kept the teachers.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

Rush, Hannity, Levin, Beck?

 

[bodecea]

I think teachers should get paid on their merit. Not weather or not a union says.. Today it doesnt matter if you suck at teaching as long as your in a union you have a job. NOT ANY OTHER profession is like this..

That is NOT an answer to what I asked.

if they OPT OUT of paying the union dues do they have to accept lower pay and benifits?

What part of LET THEM negotiate themselves dont you understand. Why do you have to have a union to do that for you. If you do a good job you will be rewarded for that job. My husband works for a non union . Only been at this company for 6 months but because he does his job well he already got a bonus and a raise . While others who have been there for years got very little raise and NO bonus because they slack off at work

And....he's a teacher in a school where some are in a union and some are not?

 

[DaGoose]

Public Unions need to go. They only serve to rape the Taxpayers at this point. And the Teacher Unions are the worst of the worst. They are lazy & greedy, and they stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. It's time to abolish all Public Unions. Private Unions are another matter though. Holding the Taxpayers hostage is wrong, and that time has now passed.

It's obvious you don't have a fucking clue. You should get your news from places other than Rush and FOX.