another reason that teacher unions are failing our students

[Unknown_Soldier]

Teachers didn't do their job with you?


BTW....where did you learn that union members can't lose their job? You were misinformed.

Hey, they can be fired but most schools dont fire them because they know the unions will tie them up in court and it will cost US taxpayers more then it will if they kept the teachers.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

Firing a teacher is a monumental task made almost impossible. If you can't at least agree that that is a fact, then there is no use engaging you further.

 

[Jackson]

Tell you what? Why don't more CONSERVATIVES get into the teaching profession?
It seems you have a problem with education because it is dominated by LIBERALS. Why is there no preponderance of conservatives in education instead of a preponderance of LIBERALS?
Perhaps it's the long hours, low pay and dismal social status that drives conservatives away from the teaching profession?
Perhaps it that, like cops and firefighters, some people are instinctively drawn to work that benefits their communitites more than it enriches them personally.

Ask yourself why there aren't more conservatives in the education game, before you eschew the people who show up and do the fricking job day in and day out while little jerks like you whine about them getting some JOB PROTECTION. And why do they need job protection? Oh, from people like you who constantly attack the profession.

Don't like the Liberal bias in education? Sign up to be a teacher.
Don't whine about it. That makes as much sense for a LIBERAL to whine about the conservative bias in the insurance industry.

I am a conservative and was a teacher. The unions aren't doing the children or the profession any favors. The education od our children would be much better off without these unions and I was a rep for the union. I know what I am talking about.

 

[bodecea]

And where did I say there are no conservatives in teaching?
While my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek(but there is some truth in it)What conservative in there right mind would want to work in an atmosphere like that?
Surrounded by a bunch of left wing kooks would hardly be my dream job.
Whatever that job may be...

Ok...so you "somewhat" stand by it.

That only shows how little you know about teachers, unions and the atmosphere they work in.

So you're a teacher? And you dont need to be a teacher to see the fruit cake shit they pull,all you have to do is read about it.
And I know plenty about union's. I've seen the crap they pull as well.

Such as?

 

[DaGoose]

Hey, they can be fired but most schools dont fire them because they know the unions will tie them up in court and it will cost US taxpayers more then it will if they kept the teachers.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

Firing a teacher is a monumental task made almost impossible. If you can't at least agree that that is a fact, then there is no use engaging you further.

And if you can't at least agree that "bad teachers" are few and far between then there is no use engaging you further either.

 

[bodecea]

But they are required to pay the dues

They are GETTING a SERVICE for those dues...legal protection, negotiated contracts, discounts on insurance, vacations, etc.

Here in CA, if you do not want to join the union, you don't have to....you pay a smaller dues for the lawyer protection, negotiation benefits, etc. My brother is a teacher here and was union rep for a while....he tells of a teacher here who hated the union, didn't join, bitched about paying the reduced dues.......but was always the FIRST to bitch about pay and "why isn't the union asking for more"...was the FIRST to need legal advice because he had a bad habit of pushing students...and was the most high maintenance teacher he represented. He was eventually forced to retire because of his behavior towards kids.

If you're good at what you do and work hard you dont need legal protection or any of the other things you mention. Union workers are a small portion of the work force. So how do all these people get by without them?
If you suck at what you do and you're a slacker.....I guess a union is the only way to keep a job.
It's been said countless times....unions where a good thing. Now? Not so much.

So, let me ask you....how do we measure how "good" a Special Ed teacher is when her students read at the 2nd grade level in 8th grade?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is in a school where 80% of the parents are illiterate and cannot support their child's education?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is when parents complain if they are called, or even have the school on phone block?

BTW...these are ALL real life examples from my town.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

Firing a teacher is a monumental task made almost impossible. If you can't at least agree that that is a fact, then there is no use engaging you further.

And if you can't at least agree that "bad teachers" are few and far between then there is no use engaging you further either.

Care to point to a post where I have disagreed with that? I don't think they are few, but I do think that the vast majority are good teachers who have a hard ass job that the unions and cry baby parents make even worse than it already is. Not to many shitty little kids.

 

[bodecea]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

That's what many private schools around here do. The parents MUST sign a contract to participate in school activities and volunteer in the classroom so many hours/month or else their child is disenrolled.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

They are GETTING a SERVICE for those dues...legal protection, negotiated contracts, discounts on insurance, vacations, etc.

Here in CA, if you do not want to join the union, you don't have to....you pay a smaller dues for the lawyer protection, negotiation benefits, etc. My brother is a teacher here and was union rep for a while....he tells of a teacher here who hated the union, didn't join, bitched about paying the reduced dues.......but was always the FIRST to bitch about pay and "why isn't the union asking for more"...was the FIRST to need legal advice because he had a bad habit of pushing students...and was the most high maintenance teacher he represented. He was eventually forced to retire because of his behavior towards kids.

If you're good at what you do and work hard you dont need legal protection or any of the other things you mention. Union workers are a small portion of the work force. So how do all these people get by without them?
If you suck at what you do and you're a slacker.....I guess a union is the only way to keep a job.
It's been said countless times....unions where a good thing. Now? Not so much.

So, let me ask you....how do we measure how "good" a Special Ed teacher is when her students read at the 2nd grade level in 8th grade?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is in a school where 80% of the parents are illiterate and cannot support their child's education?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is when parents complain if they are called, or even have the school on phone block?

BTW...these are ALL real life examples from my town.

yes and that obviously doesn't apply to every situation.

 

[bodecea]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

I favor a two tier system of education. Put the losers and those who just can't or won't in one tier and who cares what they do. Reserve the upper tier for those who strive to be the best, and you can be kicked out of that tier at any time with no recourse if you don't do your part.

Split the teachers up the same way. Let losers teach losers and put the best teachers in the upper tier and set pay accordingly. You want to make more get off your ass and be a better teacher. Same as it works in every non government profession.

They used to have that here in the U.S. (they still do in Japan and Europe)...it's called Tracking. And to Depts of Ed and Administrators that has been a dirty word for the last 20+ years. Most teachers I know would LOVE that idea to come back.

 

[Lovebears65]

why will they never answer that question I asked?

I answered your question. You just did not like the answer

 

[bodecea]

Public Unions need to go. They only serve to rape the Taxpayers at this point. And the Teacher Unions are the worst of the worst. They are lazy & greedy, and they stopped caring about the kids a long time ago. It's time to abolish all Public Unions. Private Unions are another matter though. Holding the Taxpayers hostage is wrong, and that time has now passed.

Teachers Unions are made up of......teachers. So you are saying that teachers stopped caring for kids a long time ago and are lazy & greedy.


I assume you homeschool then.

 

[bodecea]

Hey, they can be fired but most schools dont fire them because they know the unions will tie them up in court and it will cost US taxpayers more then it will if they kept the teachers.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

Firing a teacher is a monumental task made almost impossible. If you can't at least agree that that is a fact, then there is no use engaging you further.

Where are you getting your statistics on this?

 

[bodecea]

Firing a teacher is a monumental task made almost impossible. If you can't at least agree that that is a fact, then there is no use engaging you further.

And if you can't at least agree that "bad teachers" are few and far between then there is no use engaging you further either.

Care to point to a post where I have disagreed with that? I don't think they are few, but I do think that the vast majority are good teachers who have a hard ass job that the unions and cry baby parents make even worse than it already is. Not to many shitty little kids.

Tell us about your experience in the classroom as a volunteer.

 

[Jackson]

They are GETTING a SERVICE for those dues...legal protection, negotiated contracts, discounts on insurance, vacations, etc.

Here in CA, if you do not want to join the union, you don't have to....you pay a smaller dues for the lawyer protection, negotiation benefits, etc. My brother is a teacher here and was union rep for a while....he tells of a teacher here who hated the union, didn't join, bitched about paying the reduced dues.......but was always the FIRST to bitch about pay and "why isn't the union asking for more"...was the FIRST to need legal advice because he had a bad habit of pushing students...and was the most high maintenance teacher he represented. He was eventually forced to retire because of his behavior towards kids.

If you're good at what you do and work hard you dont need legal protection or any of the other things you mention. Union workers are a small portion of the work force. So how do all these people get by without them?
If you suck at what you do and you're a slacker.....I guess a union is the only way to keep a job.
It's been said countless times....unions where a good thing. Now? Not so much.

So, let me ask you....how do we measure how "good" a Special Ed teacher is when her students read at the 2nd grade level in 8th grade?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is in a school where 80% of the parents are illiterate and cannot support their child's education?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is when parents complain if they are called, or even have the school on phone block?

BTW...these are ALL real life examples from my town.

MOst parents even if they are low income do support the teacher if she/he tries to gain the support early on in the year. And if there is no support from the home, you still don't stop educating in the school. When you are educating the special ed. you take the students from where they are and pull them up. A good special ed teacher can make a two years growth in one year, even more with the developmental growth.

 

[bodecea]

why will they never answer that question I asked?

I answered your question. You just did not like the answer

I'm sorry, I missed your answer too....what post number was it?

 

[bodecea]

If you're good at what you do and work hard you dont need legal protection or any of the other things you mention. Union workers are a small portion of the work force. So how do all these people get by without them?
If you suck at what you do and you're a slacker.....I guess a union is the only way to keep a job.
It's been said countless times....unions where a good thing. Now? Not so much.

So, let me ask you....how do we measure how "good" a Special Ed teacher is when her students read at the 2nd grade level in 8th grade?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is in a school where 80% of the parents are illiterate and cannot support their child's education?

How do we measure how "good" a teacher is when parents complain if they are called, or even have the school on phone block?

BTW...these are ALL real life examples from my town.

MOst parents even if they are low income do support the teacher if she/he tries to gain the support early on in the year. And if there is no support from the home, you still don't stop educating in the school. When you are educating the special ed. you take the students from where they are and pull them up. A good special ed teacher can make a two years growth in one year, even more with the developmental growth.

So, an 8th grade student takes the state test with a 4th grade education....at the most. Did you know that even special ed students take the test for their grade level. As my friend in spec ed tells me, they are so overwhelmed that most of them shut down when test time comes.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

And if you can't at least agree that "bad teachers" are few and far between then there is no use engaging you further either.

Care to point to a post where I have disagreed with that? I don't think they are few, but I do think that the vast majority are good teachers who have a hard ass job that the unions and cry baby parents make even worse than it already is. Not to many shitty little kids.

Tell us about your experience in the classroom as a volunteer.

Personal information about me is both irrelevant to the thread, and something that I'm not going to share on a message board even if it were relevant.

Pretty clear that you have an agenda and no wish to discuss this topic like an adult, so find someone else to bother.

 

[Syphon]

Over the course of my career, I worked with several former teachers. Each one of them, when asked why they left the profession had the same answer: the parents.

You want to GREATLY increase test scores? FORCE parental involvement.

That's what many private schools around here do. The parents MUST sign a contract to participate in school activities and volunteer in the classroom so many hours/month or else their child is disenrolled.

this is very over looked subject. being a product of the public school system is not a bad thing. as long as you can have parents involved with their children. what many parents do instead is expect the school to actually raise their children for them. while they either work, or vacation, or do whatever they want. it a proven fact that parental involvement benefits children. i have a friend who has a 10 year old son from a previous relationship. in his current relationship, his new wife also has a 9 year old son from a previous relations. baby mama of the 10 year old has custody of the kid, and is responsible for his schooling. she refuses to spend the time to make sure that he is receiving a proper education, thus his grade are around C-/D+'s. the 9 year with whom he cares for with his current wife, is actively involved with her son (as is he) in both schooling and after school activities. he is a straight A student.... Teachers unions are not the sole problem of our failing educations system. parents are just as much to blame

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ok...so you "somewhat" stand by it.

That only shows how little you know about teachers, unions and the atmosphere they work in.

So you're a teacher? And you dont need to be a teacher to see the fruit cake shit they pull,all you have to do is read about it.
And I know plenty about union's. I've seen the crap they pull as well.

Such as?

For being a supporter of teachers ,you sure don't read much.
I have personally seen some of the crap union members pull. And I recently posted some of it.
And on top of that you can't pick up a newspaper without reading about the shenanigans they pull(thats where the reading part comes in)

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ok...so you "somewhat" stand by it.

That only shows how little you know about teachers, unions and the atmosphere they work in.

So you're a teacher? And you dont need to be a teacher to see the fruit cake shit they pull,all you have to do is read about it.
And I know plenty about union's. I've seen the crap they pull as well.

No smartass, but my wife is.

Do you have any idea how many "bosses" she has?

1) The Principal
2) The entire school board
3) Every parent that has a kid in that school
4) Every taxpayer

In total we're talking about 14,000 bosses.

And to top it off everyone of them have their own idea what should be taught, how it should be taught, who should teach what, how much they should be paid, how their classrooms should be set up, how many students they should teach, etc.

And none, save for the Principal, have near the education that teachers do.

So you have a vested interest in unions.
And I'm not sure how many bosses you have has anything to do with the discussion.
The thing I've always noticed about unions is the only people who like them are in them or stand to gain from them.
Wonder why that is?