Another example of why you can't trust Liberals with "reasonable" gun laws

[Flash]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

 

[Edgetho]

What can you trust dimocraps with?

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

 

[Edgetho]

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

We're a Republic, stupid.

 

[Flash]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

A Constitutional Republic that has the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights which Libtards do everything humanly possible to destroy.

 

[Roadrunner]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

A Constitutional Republic that has the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights which Libtards do everything humanly possible to destroy.

Only libs can find a Constitutional right to kill the unborn, and deny the Constitutional right to be armed.

 

[Flash]

Only libs can find a Constitutional right to kill the unborn, and deny the Constitutional right to be armed.

These Libtards are obsessed with a lot of beaucoup dinky dau things. They hate the idea of someone owning a firearm, they love more taxes (as long as somebody else pays them), they love racial division, they are batshit crazy about AGW and they are utterly bonkers about having the right to kill children on demand.

 

[toxicmedia]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

I'm routinely accused of being a Liberal because I don't respond to GOP media's attempts to convince me I hate Obama, and hating him without really being able to explain why. Like 90% of Fox New's audience.

And I'm a 2nd amendment supporter.

Irrational gun/ammo regulation is as detrimental to the credibility of Liberals, and opposition to gay marriage is for Conservatives.

When examined, the concept that regulation of guns/ammo, will reduce firearms related fatalities, is about as ridiculous as thinking prohibition of gay marriage, will stop people from being gay.

Liberals need to quit stepping on their own dicks with this issue

 

[toxicmedia]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

A Constitutional Republic that has the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights which Libtards do everything humanly possible to destroy.

I wish the NRA would encourage people to understand what a well regulated militia was meant to protect, and why bearing arms was important to that purpose.

If you just try and knuckle drag the concept into the 20th century, you leave it open to all manner of misinterpretation, and misleading impressions.

 

[LeftofLeft]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

Are you aware that the highest level of gun violence (Chicago, DC) occurs in the cities with the strictest gun control (Chicago, DC)? The problem is obviously not with the people that cling to their guns and religion.

 

[toxicmedia]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

Are you aware that the highest level of gun violence (Chicago, DC) occurs in the cities with the strictest gun control (Chicago, DC)? The problem is obviously not with the people that cling to their guns and religion.

I agree.

The people characterized as "clinging to guns and bibles"...in my experience...practice a high degree of gun safety. One of the last places you'll ever get accidentally shot, or shot by a kid playing with his dad's guns, is in the home of avid hunters.

Personally I don't care if they ban hand guns in DC or Chicago. I don't live there. My weapons are all put away, in a locked container, and the home protection I have, at the ready, is put away with the rest whenever kids come over.

When my friends and I are out shooting, we practice safely, and any of the younger kids who come with us get an early education. We are ENTHUSIASTIC about being safe.

When I lived in San Francisco, I stored my guns 90 miles away in the valley, with my folks.

I don't understand what the problem is here

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws."

This is actually a great example of how most conservatives are ignorant of hasty generalization fallacies – and the premise of this thread fails accordingly.

Steve Israel is not 'representative' of all liberals, he does not speak for all liberals, as the majority of liberals consider Heller settled and accepted case law, support the rights enshrined in the Second Amendment, and are making no efforts to overturn that case law.

He'll introduce his 'legislation,' which will garner no co-sponsors – neither democratic nor republican – and die having never even making it to committee.

 

[Flash]

"This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws."

This is actually a great example of how most conservatives are ignorant of hasty generalization fallacies – and the premise of this thread fails accordingly.

Steve Israel is not 'representative' of all liberals, he does not speak for all liberals, as the majority of liberals consider Heller settled and accepted case law, support the rights enshrined in the Second Amendment, and are making no efforts to overturn that case law.

He'll introduce his 'legislation,' which will garner no co-sponsors – neither democratic nor republican – and die having never even making it to committee.

You get this bullshit from Liberals all the time. Just look at the SAFE Act in NY that takes the firearms away from a veteran because he reported having insomnia. Another veteran was arrested a few days after that despicable act was passed for having two unloaded AR magazines in the trunk of his car.

Just look at the draconian firearms laws in California. It took the Supreme Court to tell DC and Chicago that a citizen could have a handgun in Heller and McDonald. Obama himself tried to get an "assault weapons" ban passed but thank goodness for the NRA's influence in Congress or we would have not been allowed to have AR-15s. A couple of weeks ago the Obama administration tried to ban half the AR ammo available in the US.

Don't tell me the filthy ass Libtards are not anti gun nuts.

 

[EricJ]

First of all, I'm not for gun control. Conservative guntards are more likely to shoot themselves or (this part is unfortunate) someone else in their household than anyone else. As long as they shoot themselves, it's all good. Darwinism in action.

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI

During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...kellerman is an anti gun hack.....

GunCite - Gun Control Web Site A Gun in the Home

 

[2aguy]

And another look at how wrong kellerman is...

Kellermann-Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home

Additional analysis of Kellermann's ICPSR dataset shows that just over 4½ percent of all homicides, in the three counties Kellermann chose to study, involved victims being killed with a gun kept in their own home (see derivation). This supports the conclusion that people murdered with a gun kept in their own home are a small minority of all homicides, precisely the opposite of what an uncritical reader of Kellermann's study would likely conclude. The mis-citations of Kellermann's study serve as examples: "In homes with guns, a member of the household is almost three times as likely to be the victim of a homicide compared to gun-free homes (source).

 

[2aguy]

And another nice deconstruction of kellerman's biased research....

Lies Damned Lies and Washington CeaseFire s Statistics - The Truth About Guns


But, back to the problems with the new and improved 22 times number.

#1) Dr. Kellerman initially failed to state how he determined that the gun used belonged in the home or had been brought into it by someone else. Four years later he wrote a letter to the NEJM with a correction stating that in follow-up interviews it was determined that in 63% of the cases the gun was organic to the household. So, 0.63 times 22 means you’re only 13.6 times more likely to be ki . . . etc. (I think I’ll start using the acronym TMLTBKBAGIYHTTKAI . . . or, better yet we’ll just use TML (times more likely). So, that has reduced the 22 TML figure down to 13.6.

#2) Dr. Kellerman failed to account for other risk factors like drug use, criminals or criminal activity in the home. According to his study’s Table 3, 53% of the case study households contained at least one adult who had been arrested. So 0.47 times 13.64 leaves 6.4 TML.

#3) Most of the killings didn’t actually occur “in the home,” Oops! According to Kellerman’s own figures, only 23.9% of the homicides happened in the home of the victim. So, 0.239 times 6.4 gives us 1.5321812 so let’s call it 1.5 TML, shall we?

#4) Kellerman’s study includes suicides committed with guns. The problem with that is he did no research to determine if the “victim” acquired the weapon solely in order to commit suicide or if they used it as a “method of opportunity.” And despite the antis claims to the contrary, numerous studies have shown that suicide rates are independent of method. In other words, taking away guns may reduce the gun suicide rate, but non-gun suicides will increase enough to offset this.

#5) And the biggest problem of all: Dr. Kellerman seems to believe that killing someone is the only way to use a gun defensively (one wonders, then, what he thinks of police departments who routinely arrestpeople instead of killing them). But according to Dr. Kleck’s study Targeting Guns (as cited on page 19of Gun Facts ver. 6.0) in less than 0.1% of DGUs is the attacker killed. Indeed, in 92% of DGUs the victim merely brandishes the weapon or fires a warning shot.

So, putting all this together, what do we have (besides the fact that 22 TML is a completely bogus number)? After my swipe at number crunching we have reduced TML to 1.5, but what does that mean in real life?

Well, according to the CDC‘s numbers, over the 11 years from 1999 to 2009 we averaged 11,800 firearm-related murders annually. If we carry that number through 2010 and look at the census numbers, that means the your chance of being murdered with a gun is 11,800/309,000,000 or 0.0038%. So even if we accept Dr. Kellerman’s premise that guns are only useful when they kill someone, having a gun in your home raises your odds of being killed from 0.0038% to 0.0059%.

But again, what does that mean? It means that keeping a gun in the home raises your chance of being killed with a gun from 1 in 26,186 to 1 in 17,004 whereas your chance of dying from something other than gunshot? 1 in 205.

 

[Roadrunner]

This is a great example of why you can't trust the anti gun nut Liberals when it comes to reasonable gun laws.

This stupid idea by a NY Democrat member of Congress would ban 99% of the ammo used in rifles in the US.


NRA-ILA M855 Plot Thickens Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

M855 Plot Thickens: Congressman Proposes Center-Fire Ammo Ban

You didn’t need a crystal ball to see this one coming. On Monday, a week after the BATFE withdrew its plan to ban M855 as “armor-piercing ammunition,” U.S. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) announced that he intends to introduce legislation to “extend the definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include all bullets that can pierce body armor and be used in handguns.”

Are you aware we're a constitutional democracy?

Are you aware that the highest level of gun violence (Chicago, DC) occurs in the cities with the strictest gun control (Chicago, DC)? The problem is obviously not with the people that cling to their guns and religion.

I agree.

The people characterized as "clinging to guns and bibles"...in my experience...practice a high degree of gun safety. One of the last places you'll ever get accidentally shot, or shot by a kid playing with his dad's guns, is in the home of avid hunters.

Personally I don't care if they ban hand guns in DC or Chicago. I don't live there. My weapons are all put away, in a locked container, and the home protection I have, at the ready, is put away with the rest whenever kids come over.

When my friends and I are out shooting, we practice safely, and any of the younger kids who come with us get an early education. We are ENTHUSIASTIC about being safe.

When I lived in San Francisco, I stored my guns 90 miles away in the valley, with my folks.

I don't understand what the problem is here

Shit happens though.

A friend of mine's son was shot through the chest with a .270, and killed instantly, in a rich boy deer camp.

Alcohol and guns do not mix.

 

[Flash]

First of all, I'm not for gun control. Conservative guntards are more likely to shoot themselves or (this part is unfortunate) someone else in their household than anyone else. As long as they shoot themselves, it's all good. Darwinism in action.

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI

During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Accidents happens all the time. Sometime people are stupid and causes the accidents.

I have a pool and young grand children. I have to go to almost extraordinary measure to make sure that there isn't an accident because each year in the US there are hundreds of children killed in swimming pools.

Because accidents happen and sometimes people are stupid and cause the accidents is absolutely no reason to take freedom away from anybody.

You may understand that concept but most Liberals don't.

 

[EricJ]

First of all, I'm not for gun control. Conservative guntards are more likely to shoot themselves or (this part is unfortunate) someone else in their household than anyone else. As long as they shoot themselves, it's all good. Darwinism in action.

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI

During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Accidents happens all the time. Sometime people are stupid and causes the accidents.

I have a pool and young grand children. I have to go to almost extraordinary measure to make sure that there isn't an accident because each year in the US there are hundreds of children killed in swimming pools.

Because accidents happen and sometimes people are stupid and cause the accidents is absolutely no reason to take freedom away from anybody.

You may understand that concept but most Liberals don't.

Did you not read the very first sentence of my post?