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synonyms decline, refuse, reject, repudiate, spurn mean to turn away by not accepting, receiving, or considering."The calls were the focal point of a whirlwind day in which Cambridge officials declined to release tape recordings of radio transmissions from last weeks encounter between Gates and Crowley."that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.
Obama moves to quell Gates furor - The Boston Globe
Oh my! Are you calling the Globe a liar?
declining isn't refusing.
trry to keep up.
Did I hear Crowley say something in there about being concerned for Gates welfare and that being a reason why he didn't just leave ?
LOL!!!!I don't think you get it. Of course he hadn't heard the tapes. But he knew, because he was there, that the tapes aren't going to back up his story that Gates was out of control.
excuse me, before there was any public discussion of the tapes.
the fact remains, he hadn't heard the tapes and said so.
Baloney. It's not as if anyone laid a hand on anyone else and forced them to stay. Once he knew it was Gates house he could go away and I don't care if Gates is standing on the front porch yelling at him. If Crowley was a half decent cop he would have never let it get that far anyway. He would have diffused the race poppy cock from the first word. If he couldn't diffuse it, and it is like Crowley says it was, a long, sustained and obvious race baiting session, he should ignore it right up to the point of looking at the ID and getting the hell out. No one detained or impeded him. There was no need for him to hang around for a spirited debate with Gates about profiling. Unless of course.....he was profiling.
The house didn't belong to Gates. He was renting it from Harvard, so Crowley did exactly what he should have done, he called Harvard police to confirm Gates had a right to be there and when they arrived, he started to leave, and it was when Gates continued to berate him as a racist and threaten to use his influence with the mayor and police chief to punish him, that Crowley finally had had enough and arrested him for disorderly conduct, and if what Crowley has said happened is accurate, that arrest was justified.
You can argue that even if it was justified, it was not wise to arrest Gates, but I disagree. He held Gates responsible for his disorderly conduct and that was the right thing to do for everyone. If Crowely had just walked away with all those people watching he would have left the impression the police can be intimidated by racial slurs and threats to bring charges of racial profiling against them, and would have made the job more difficult for other cops, and if anxiety about such charges caused a cop to hesitate or become distracted, it might have endangered him. It is reasonable to expect a citizen to behave responsibly when dealing with the police even if that person is a mentally disturbed black scholar at Harvard who is friends with the Cambridge mayor, the Mass. governor and the president.
There is obviously no basis for charges of racial profiling here and Gates' false charges and Obama's mindless support for those charges will only serve to undermine the credibility of black men who have really been unfairly treated by police because they are black. Of the three of them, Obama, Gates and Crowley, only Crowley can honestly claim to have acted without racial bias.
Intimidated by racial slurs? I think you're taking liberties, even with Crowley's account of the incident. Crowley went outside and lured the man out of his house so he would have a reason to arrest him. The man was upset and yelling inside his house, Crowley can't arrest him for that so he invited him out in the yard, like a bully in a bar brawl, in front of the crowd, already GATHERED, not becasue anyone was yelling in the yard....get it? The crowd was already there....a crowd of seven people gawking at the police responding to a false alarm. So now that there is a crowd gathered, the cops don't like being questioned and asked for their names out in front of everyone....it is an image problem..not unlike the image problem of being questioned in my own home. Tell you what, let's compromise. The cops can come demand ID from me in my own house, and I will disregard any embarassment caused and I can demand their ID out in public, regardless of the same. Fair enough?
The house didn't belong to Gates. He was renting it from Harvard, so Crowley did exactly what he should have done, he called Harvard police to confirm Gates had a right to be there and when they arrived, he started to leave, and it was when Gates continued to berate him as a racist and threaten to use his influence with the mayor and police chief to punish him, that Crowley finally had had enough and arrested him for disorderly conduct, and if what Crowley has said happened is accurate, that arrest was justified.
You can argue that even if it was justified, it was not wise to arrest Gates, but I disagree. He held Gates responsible for his disorderly conduct and that was the right thing to do for everyone. If Crowely had just walked away with all those people watching he would have left the impression the police can be intimidated by racial slurs and threats to bring charges of racial profiling against them, and would have made the job more difficult for other cops, and if anxiety about such charges caused a cop to hesitate or become distracted, it might have endangered him. It is reasonable to expect a citizen to behave responsibly when dealing with the police even if that person is a mentally disturbed black scholar at Harvard who is friends with the Cambridge mayor, the Mass. governor and the president.
There is obviously no basis for charges of racial profiling here and Gates' false charges and Obama's mindless support for those charges will only serve to undermine the credibility of black men who have really been unfairly treated by police because they are black. Of the three of them, Obama, Gates and Crowley, only Crowley can honestly claim to have acted without racial bias.
Intimidated by racial slurs? I think you're taking liberties, even with Crowley's account of the incident. Crowley went outside and lured the man out of his house so he would have a reason to arrest him. The man was upset and yelling inside his house, Crowley can't arrest him for that so he invited him out in the yard, like a bully in a bar brawl, in front of the crowd, already GATHERED, not becasue anyone was yelling in the yard....get it? The crowd was already there....a crowd of seven people gawking at the police responding to a false alarm. So now that there is a crowd gathered, the cops don't like being questioned and asked for their names out in front of everyone....it is an image problem..not unlike the image problem of being questioned in my own home. Tell you what, let's compromise. The cops can come demand ID from me in my own house, and I will disregard any embarassment caused and I can demand their ID out in public, regardless of the same. Fair enough?
So the cop should have walked away, but he should have stayed to hear Gates yell at him....which is it?
Make up your mind...the cop was followed while Gates hurled insults at him AND HIS MOTHER and you claim it was all a set up? Even if it was a set up, Gates was WRONG. His behavior was disorderly and the cop had every right to arrest him.
Gates should have been arrested for failing to follow a lawful command from a LEO. As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate for face arrest.Intimidated by racial slurs? I think you're taking liberties, even with Crowley's account of the incident. Crowley went outside and lured the man out of his house so he would have a reason to arrest him. The man was upset and yelling inside his house, Crowley can't arrest him for that so he invited him out in the yard, like a bully in a bar brawl, in front of the crowd, already GATHERED, not becasue anyone was yelling in the yard....get it? The crowd was already there....a crowd of seven people gawking at the police responding to a false alarm. So now that there is a crowd gathered, the cops don't like being questioned and asked for their names out in front of everyone....it is an image problem..not unlike the image problem of being questioned in my own home. Tell you what, let's compromise. The cops can come demand ID from me in my own house, and I will disregard any embarassment caused and I can demand their ID out in public, regardless of the same. Fair enough?
So the cop should have walked away, but he should have stayed to hear Gates yell at him....which is it?
Make up your mind...the cop was followed while Gates hurled insults at him AND HIS MOTHER and you claim it was all a set up? Even if it was a set up, Gates was WRONG. His behavior was disorderly and the cop had every right to arrest him.
Once Gates ID was established, and it was established to the satisfaction of Crowley leaving, Crowley should go, as he did. If someone is yelling at him on the way out the drive, tough shit, get in your car and drive away. There was no crime. Crowley didn't like being yelled at. Tough shit. And you can expect it if you're a cop. And no, you don't get to arrest people for yelling at you.
Gates should have been arrested for failing to follow a lawful command from a LEO. As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate for face arrest.So the cop should have walked away, but he should have stayed to hear Gates yell at him....which is it?
Make up your mind...the cop was followed while Gates hurled insults at him AND HIS MOTHER and you claim it was all a set up? Even if it was a set up, Gates was WRONG. His behavior was disorderly and the cop had every right to arrest him.
Once Gates ID was established, and it was established to the satisfaction of Crowley leaving, Crowley should go, as he did. If someone is yelling at him on the way out the drive, tough shit, get in your car and drive away. There was no crime. Crowley didn't like being yelled at. Tough shit. And you can expect it if you're a cop. And no, you don't get to arrest people for yelling at you.
None of you would even be having this conversation if it had been a white guy who was arrested for not having followed a lawful order.
This is a case of Gates trying to hide behind his race for poor judgment.
End of topic.
Thats right. You can be legally told to be quite, even on your own porch. The facts show that when ordered to come outside the home and produce ID Gates did not and had to actually be threatened a few times before he did.Gates should have been arrested for failing to follow a lawful command from a LEO. As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate for face arrest.Once Gates ID was established, and it was established to the satisfaction of Crowley leaving, Crowley should go, as he did. If someone is yelling at him on the way out the drive, tough shit, get in your car and drive away. There was no crime. Crowley didn't like being yelled at. Tough shit. And you can expect it if you're a cop. And no, you don't get to arrest people for yelling at you.
None of you would even be having this conversation if it had been a white guy who was arrested for not having followed a lawful order.
This is a case of Gates trying to hide behind his race for poor judgment.
End of topic.
What lawful order? To shut up? On my own porch? That's what he was arrested for. Now you show me where ordering someone to be quite, on their own front porch, who is not under arrest, is a lawful order.
It is not a lawful order. Gates had no obligation to follow it.
Thats right. You can be legally told to be quite, even on your own porch. The facts show that when ordered to come outside the home and produce ID Gates did not and had to actually be threatened a few times before he did.Gates should have been arrested for failing to follow a lawful command from a LEO. As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate for face arrest.
None of you would even be having this conversation if it had been a white guy who was arrested for not having followed a lawful order.
This is a case of Gates trying to hide behind his race for poor judgment.
End of topic.
What lawful order? To shut up? On my own porch? That's what he was arrested for. Now you show me where ordering someone to be quite, on their own front porch, who is not under arrest, is a lawful order.
It is not a lawful order. Gates had no obligation to follow it.
During the verification process, if you get mouthy, even if you do live there, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct.
Until the LEO has concluded his investigation, he can give any order that keeps him safe and you inline. Overstep that and you will be arrested.
He could also have been arrested for obstruction of a legal investigation and interfering with the duties of a LEO.
You did not read My post very well. When he was ordered out of the house, he did not comply right away. That puts him in a bad light to begin with. Even after the verification of who he was, he, you, Me or anyone is not allowed to verbally abuse a cop. It simply is against the law. From all indications, this Gates moron was verbally assaulting a LEO. It is the exact same thing as screaming and yelling profanities at a Judge. He has the right to put you in jail if you do so.Thats right. You can be legally told to be quite, even on your own porch. The facts show that when ordered to come outside the home and produce ID Gates did not and had to actually be threatened a few times before he did.What lawful order? To shut up? On my own porch? That's what he was arrested for. Now you show me where ordering someone to be quite, on their own front porch, who is not under arrest, is a lawful order.
It is not a lawful order. Gates had no obligation to follow it.
During the verification process, if you get mouthy, even if you do live there, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct.
Until the LEO has concluded his investigation, he can give any order that keeps him safe and you inline. Overstep that and you will be arrested.
He could also have been arrested for obstruction of a legal investigation and interfering with the duties of a LEO.
The investigation was over. Gates had already been verified as the resident. At the point Gates was arrested there was no question to the officers safety and no reason to keep gates "in line" at his own house. Gates was not committing a crime by yelling from his own front porch. The relevant MA cases have already been posted and yelling at a cop is not a crime. No one placed a hand on Crowley, no one interfered with his investigation. Gates complied and ALSO complained. No violation. No one moved to impede Crowley's investigation. Gates identified himself and produced ID. Crowley was leaving. The investigation was over.
I get so fucking sick of this constant bullshit about "the officers safety". We are supposed to give over all this authority for "the officers safety". How about my fucking safety? Do I have these special powers to use force against random people that might want to harm me? Do you think racism is as big a problem as cop haters? Is a black man just as liable tyo be in danger for being black as a cop is for being a cop?
A cop carries multiple weapons, has radio for back up, a bullet proof vest and the incidents of cops injured or killed on the job is FAR, FAR below other occupations and indeed, life in general. So this bullshit about cops being scared fucking shitless at every call they go to doesn't wash with me. Try that crapola on someone who has swallowed that line of propoganda hook line and sinker.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]As someone who, although white, spent his youth in the 1960s and early 1970s with long hair and a scraggly beard--both red flags to police back in the day--and who had his share of run-ins with police for that reason alone, I can understand to some extent what African-Americans, and especially African-American men, go through in dealing with white police officers. I used to be “profiled” as a druggie/lefty/hippy and was stopped regularly for no reason when I lived in Los Angeles and drove an 20-year-old pick-up truck. I’d be pushed up against the vehicle, frisked, shouted at, talked to threateningly. I’d have my vehicle searched (without a warrant). And if I objected, I’d be threatened with arrest, though I had done nothing. Under those circumstances, you quickly learn to be very deferential around police.[/SIZE][/FONT]
You did not read My post very well. When he was ordered out of the house, he did not comply right away. That puts him in a bad light to begin with. Even after the verification of who he was, he, you, Me or anyone is not allowed to verbally abuse a cop. It simply is against the law. From all indications, this Gates moron was verbally assaulting a LEO. It is the exact same thing as screaming and yelling profanities at a Judge. He has the right to put you in jail if you do so.Thats right. You can be legally told to be quite, even on your own porch. The facts show that when ordered to come outside the home and produce ID Gates did not and had to actually be threatened a few times before he did.
During the verification process, if you get mouthy, even if you do live there, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct.
Until the LEO has concluded his investigation, he can give any order that keeps him safe and you inline. Overstep that and you will be arrested.
He could also have been arrested for obstruction of a legal investigation and interfering with the duties of a LEO.
The investigation was over. Gates had already been verified as the resident. At the point Gates was arrested there was no question to the officers safety and no reason to keep gates "in line" at his own house. Gates was not committing a crime by yelling from his own front porch. The relevant MA cases have already been posted and yelling at a cop is not a crime. No one placed a hand on Crowley, no one interfered with his investigation. Gates complied and ALSO complained. No violation. No one moved to impede Crowley's investigation. Gates identified himself and produced ID. Crowley was leaving. The investigation was over.
I get so fucking sick of this constant bullshit about "the officers safety". We are supposed to give over all this authority for "the officers safety". How about my fucking safety? Do I have these special powers to use force against random people that might want to harm me? Do you think racism is as big a problem as cop haters? Is a black man just as liable tyo be in danger for being black as a cop is for being a cop?
A cop carries multiple weapons, has radio for back up, a bullet proof vest and the incidents of cops injured or killed on the job is FAR, FAR below other occupations and indeed, life in general. So this bullshit about cops being scared fucking shitless at every call they go to doesn't wash with me. Try that crapola on someone who has swallowed that line of propoganda hook line and sinker.
Lets make one thing clear here. I am all for freedom, but you simply cannot do anything you wish. Not in this country or any other country.
Gates is a moron and was hiding behind his race to condone bad behavior.
I have no sympathy for the man what-so-ever. In fact, I hope gets a hefty fine for his behavior.
In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.
So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct."
Really, Adolf? Really???As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate [f]or face arrest.
Really, Adolf? Really???As a citizen, you are obligated to cooperate [f]or face arrest.
That just says that they have to let you go because you cannot be convicted. Won't prevent you from spending the night in jail, will it?You did not read My post very well. When he was ordered out of the house, he did not comply right away. That puts him in a bad light to begin with. Even after the verification of who he was, he, you, Me or anyone is not allowed to verbally abuse a cop. It simply is against the law. From all indications, this Gates moron was verbally assaulting a LEO. It is the exact same thing as screaming and yelling profanities at a Judge. He has the right to put you in jail if you do so.The investigation was over. Gates had already been verified as the resident. At the point Gates was arrested there was no question to the officers safety and no reason to keep gates "in line" at his own house. Gates was not committing a crime by yelling from his own front porch. The relevant MA cases have already been posted and yelling at a cop is not a crime. No one placed a hand on Crowley, no one interfered with his investigation. Gates complied and ALSO complained. No violation. No one moved to impede Crowley's investigation. Gates identified himself and produced ID. Crowley was leaving. The investigation was over.
I get so fucking sick of this constant bullshit about "the officers safety". We are supposed to give over all this authority for "the officers safety". How about my fucking safety? Do I have these special powers to use force against random people that might want to harm me? Do you think racism is as big a problem as cop haters? Is a black man just as liable tyo be in danger for being black as a cop is for being a cop?
A cop carries multiple weapons, has radio for back up, a bullet proof vest and the incidents of cops injured or killed on the job is FAR, FAR below other occupations and indeed, life in general. So this bullshit about cops being scared fucking shitless at every call they go to doesn't wash with me. Try that crapola on someone who has swallowed that line of propoganda hook line and sinker.
Lets make one thing clear here. I am all for freedom, but you simply cannot do anything you wish. Not in this country or any other country.
Gates is a moron and was hiding behind his race to condone bad behavior.
I have no sympathy for the man what-so-ever. In fact, I hope gets a hefty fine for his behavior.
You are wrong, the State of MA says you are wrong.
In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.
So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct."
That just says that they have to let you go because you cannot be convicted. Won't prevent you from spending the night in jail, will it?You did not read My post very well. When he was ordered out of the house, he did not comply right away. That puts him in a bad light to begin with. Even after the verification of who he was, he, you, Me or anyone is not allowed to verbally abuse a cop. It simply is against the law. From all indications, this Gates moron was verbally assaulting a LEO. It is the exact same thing as screaming and yelling profanities at a Judge. He has the right to put you in jail if you do so.
Lets make one thing clear here. I am all for freedom, but you simply cannot do anything you wish. Not in this country or any other country.
Gates is a moron and was hiding behind his race to condone bad behavior.
I have no sympathy for the man what-so-ever. In fact, I hope gets a hefty fine for his behavior.
You are wrong, the State of MA says you are wrong.
In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.
So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct."
