And WHO is Louis Gates, anyway?

[Sweet Willy]

Gates could have at any time he chose before the arrest have ended the incident. He chose not to. Gates chose to be a belligerant asshole all the way and got arrested for it. If a few more bellgerant assholes got arrested time to time maybe this might just might become a somewhat more polite world.

And that is the divide. People that want to police attitudes and those that want to keep it restricted to crimes.

 

[del]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.

"The calls were the focal point of a whirlwind day in which Cambridge officials declined to release tape recordings of radio transmissions from last week’s encounter between Gates and Crowley."

Obama moves to quell Gates furor - The Boston Globe

Oh my! Are you calling the Globe a liar?

declining isn't refusing.
trry to keep up.

as to the globe, i have to call mike barnicle and ask him if the globe ever is less than accurate.

 

[Valerie]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.

Cambridge Police poised to release 911 tape recordings in connection with Gates case
July 24, 11:25 AM
Cambridge Police poised to release 911 tape recordings in connection with Gates case

>

NECN) - Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates junior says he's ready to move on from his arrest by a white police officer at his Cambridge, Massachusetts home.
Harvard scholar ready to move on from arrest | NECN

 

[Sweet Willy]

They're going to have a beer with Obama.

I thought Bush was the guy everyone wanted to have a beer with. There goes Obama, once again shattering a stereo type.

 

[Anguille]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.

Cambridge Police poised to release 911 tape recordings in connection with Gates case
July 24, 11:25 AM
Cambridge Police poised to release 911 tape recordings in connection with Gates case

del sounds a bit agitated. I hope he doesn't become tumultuous.
From your source's source:

911, police tapes key in Gates case

Officials mull release of recorded evidence
Mounting pressure to get to the bottom of the controversial arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. is centering on recorded police tapes that may offer a dose of reality amid all the media and political noise.
Cambridge police brass and lawyers are weighing making the tapes public, which could include the 911 call reporting a break-in at Gates’ home and radio transmissions by the cop who busted him July 16 for disorderly conduct.

.....

In a radio interview yesterday morning with WEEI’s John Dennis and Gerry Callahan, Crowley, a 42-year-old father of three, said he hasn’t heard the tapes. “One of my first transmissions was to slow the units down and I’m in the residence with somebody I believe resides here, but he’s being very uncooperative. So, that’s in real time,” Crowley told the sports-talk hosts.
“I’m not really sure how much you could hear from Professor Gates, you know, in the background. I, I don’t know. I haven’t heard the tapes.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Republican-Examiner~y2009m7d24-Cambridge-Police-poised-to-release-911-tape-recordings-in-connection-with-Gates-case

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes he knew who Gates was after the third time Crowley asked for ID. He appears to have suspected it somewhat earlier. But beofre he arrived he had no idea that the owner of the house was the one breaking into it and that was my point. Crowley tried to walk away Gates wasn't having it. Gates got arrested because he, Gates, would have it no other way.

Baloney. It's not as if anyone laid a hand on anyone else and forced them to stay. Once he knew it was Gates house he could go away and I don't care if Gates is standing on the front porch yelling at him. If Crowley was a half decent cop he would have never let it get that far anyway. He would have diffused the race poppy cock from the first word. If he couldn't diffuse it, and it is like Crowley says it was, a long, sustained and obvious race baiting session, he should ignore it right up to the point of looking at the ID and getting the hell out. No one detained or impeded him. There was no need for him to hang around for a spirited debate with Gates about profiling. Unless of course.....he was profiling.

The house didn't belong to Gates. He was renting it from Harvard, so Crowley did exactly what he should have done, he called Harvard police to confirm Gates had a right to be there and when they arrived, he started to leave, and it was when Gates continued to berate him as a racist and threaten to use his influence with the mayor and police chief to punish him, that Crowley finally had had enough and arrested him for disorderly conduct, and if what Crowley has said happened is accurate, that arrest was justified.

You can argue that even if it was justified, it was not wise to arrest Gates, but I disagree. He held Gates responsible for his disorderly conduct and that was the right thing to do for everyone. If Crowely had just walked away with all those people watching he would have left the impression the police can be intimidated by racial slurs and threats to bring charges of racial profiling against them, and would have made the job more difficult for other cops, and if anxiety about such charges caused a cop to hesitate or become distracted, it might have endangered him. It is reasonable to expect a citizen to behave responsibly when dealing with the police even if that person is a mentally disturbed black scholar at Harvard who is friends with the Cambridge mayor, the Mass. governor and the president.

There is obviously no basis for charges of racial profiling here and Gates' false charges and Obama's mindless support for those charges will only serve to undermine the credibility of black men who have really been unfairly treated by police because they are black. Of the three of them, Obama, Gates and Crowley, only Crowley can honestly claim to have acted without racial bias.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Not so fast. Gate's home was hooked up with a security alarm. Isn't it standard practice for the people from the alarm company to call the police once the alarm is turned off? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the owner of the house, rather than a burglar, would know the code?
"[...] Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, [...]
Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver’s license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates’ photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates’ request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer’s name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates’ home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch.[...]"

Now, if Gates was all up in the officers face, why would the other officers have hung out on the front porch rather than enter the home? Are officers supposed to supply name and badge number upon request?
Henry Louis Gates Jr. Arrested

This is what Gates' lawyer claims happened. Crowley tells a very different story. Crowley claims he immediately told Gates he was following up on a 911 call reporting a possible break in and that Gates responded with a barrage of racial slurs, that Gates at first refused to show his ID and that Gates continued to demand Crowley give him his name after Crowley had identified himself twice already. Crowley walked out of the house, I suspect because he wanted witnesses to be able to confirm Gates' bizarre and irrational behavior, but did not leave the premises because he still needed the Harvard police to confirm Gates had a legal right to be in the house since it was rented from Harvard.

Crowley's account of events has been confirmed by the Cambridge police at the scene and has not been contradicted by the Harvard police, the Harvard maintenance people or the onlookers at the scene.

The Harvard police weren't in the house, neither were any "onlookers" in the house. The officer responding got there alone, and the rest came afterward. The other police officers were standing on the front porch, and arrived after Gates went to the kitchen to get his wallet. So what could any of them confirm or deny about the officers version of events? Its the homeowners word against the police officer.

We don't know how much the police officers or onlookers may have heard coming from the house, but they certainly heard Gates' racial slurs and threats once Gates and Crowley were on the porch. And the fact that Gates continued to charge racial profiling when there is clearly no basis for that charge gives credibility to Crowley's version of what happened in the house.

 

[Anguille]

"In a radio interview yesterday morning with WEEI’s John Dennis and Gerry Callahan, Crowley, a 42-year-old father of three, said he hasn’t heard the tapes. “One of my first transmissions was to slow the units down and I’m in the residence with somebody I believe resides here, but he’s being very uncooperative. So, that’s in real time,” Crowley told the sports-talk hosts.
“I’m not really sure how much you could hear from Professor Gates, you know, in the background. I, I don’t know. I haven’t heard the tapes.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Republican-Examiner~y2009m7d24-Cambridge-Police-poised-to-release-911-tape-recordings-in-connection-with-Gates-case

Sounds like somebody has been doing some backpedaling already.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yes he knew who Gates was after the third time Crowley asked for ID. He appears to have suspected it somewhat earlier. But beofre he arrived he had no idea that the owner of the house was the one breaking into it and that was my point. Crowley tried to walk away Gates wasn't having it. Gates got arrested because he, Gates, would have it no other way.

Baloney. It's not as if anyone laid a hand on anyone else and forced them to stay. Once he knew it was Gates house he could go away and I don't care if Gates is standing on the front porch yelling at him. If Crowley was a half decent cop he would have never let it get that far anyway. He would have diffused the race poppy cock from the first word. If he couldn't diffuse it, and it is like Crowley says it was, a long, sustained and obvious race baiting session, he should ignore it right up to the point of looking at the ID and getting the hell out. No one detained or impeded him. There was no need for him to hang around for a spirited debate with Gates about profiling. Unless of course.....he was profiling.

The house didn't belong to Gates. He was renting it from Harvard, so Crowley did exactly what he should have done, he called Harvard police to confirm Gates had a right to be there and when they arrived, he started to leave, and it was when Gates continued to berate him as a racist and threaten to use his influence with the mayor and police chief to punish him, that Crowley finally had had enough and arrested him for disorderly conduct, and if what Crowley has said happened is accurate, that arrest was justified.

You can argue that even if it was justified, it was not wise to arrest Gates, but I disagree. He held Gates responsible for his disorderly conduct and that was the right thing to do for everyone. If Crowely had just walked away with all those people watching he would have left the impression the police can be intimidated by racial slurs and threats to bring charges of racial profiling against them, and would have made the job more difficult for other cops, and if anxiety about such charges caused a cop to hesitate or become distracted, it might have endangered him. It is reasonable to expect a citizen to behave responsibly when dealing with the police even if that person is a mentally disturbed black scholar at Harvard who is friends with the Cambridge mayor, the Mass. governor and the president.

There is obviously no basis for charges of racial profiling here and Gates' false charges and Obama's mindless support for those charges will only serve to undermine the credibility of black men who have really been unfairly treated by police because they are black. Of the three of them, Obama, Gates and Crowley, only Crowley can honestly claim to have acted without racial bias.

Intimidated by racial slurs? I think you're taking liberties, even with Crowley's account of the incident. Crowley went outside and lured the man out of his house so he would have a reason to arrest him. The man was upset and yelling inside his house, Crowley can't arrest him for that so he invited him out in the yard, like a bully in a bar brawl, in front of the crowd, already GATHERED, not becasue anyone was yelling in the yard....get it? The crowd was already there....a crowd of seven people gawking at the police responding to a false alarm. So now that there is a crowd gathered, the cops don't like being questioned and asked for their names out in front of everyone....it is an image problem..not unlike the image problem of being questioned in my own home. Tell you what, let's compromise. The cops can come demand ID from me in my own house, and I will disregard any embarassment caused and I can demand their ID out in public, regardless of the same. Fair enough?

 

[Barb]

This is what Gates' lawyer claims happened. Crowley tells a very different story. Crowley claims he immediately told Gates he was following up on a 911 call reporting a possible break in and that Gates responded with a barrage of racial slurs, that Gates at first refused to show his ID and that Gates continued to demand Crowley give him his name after Crowley had identified himself twice already. Crowley walked out of the house, I suspect because he wanted witnesses to be able to confirm Gates' bizarre and irrational behavior, but did not leave the premises because he still needed the Harvard police to confirm Gates had a legal right to be in the house since it was rented from Harvard.

Crowley's account of events has been confirmed by the Cambridge police at the scene and has not been contradicted by the Harvard police, the Harvard maintenance people or the onlookers at the scene.

The Harvard police weren't in the house, neither were any "onlookers" in the house. The officer responding got there alone, and the rest came afterward. The other police officers were standing on the front porch, and arrived after Gates went to the kitchen to get his wallet. So what could any of them confirm or deny about the officers version of events? Its the homeowners word against the police officer.

We don't know how much the police officers or onlookers may have heard coming from the house, but they certainly heard Gates' racial slurs and threats once Gates and Crowley were on the porch. And the fact that Gates continued to charge racial profiling when there is clearly no basis for that charge gives credibility to Crowley's version of what happened in the house.

They "certainly heard?" From where did you get that information? I'd like a look at it. Got a link to first hand accounts? Not the police, mind you, from "onlookers."

 

[del]

"In a radio interview yesterday morning with WEEI’s John Dennis and Gerry Callahan, Crowley, a 42-year-old father of three, said he hasn’t heard the tapes. “One of my first transmissions was to slow the units down and I’m in the residence with somebody I believe resides here, but he’s being very uncooperative. So, that’s in real time,” Crowley told the sports-talk hosts.
“I’m not really sure how much you could hear from Professor Gates, you know, in the background. I, I don’t know. I haven’t heard the tapes.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Republican-Examiner~y2009m7d24-Cambridge-Police-poised-to-release-911-tape-recordings-in-connection-with-Gates-case

Sounds like somebody has been doing some backpedaling already.

that interview took place before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

 

[Anguille]

"In a radio interview yesterday morning with WEEI’s John Dennis and Gerry Callahan, Crowley, a 42-year-old father of three, said he hasn’t heard the tapes. “One of my first transmissions was to slow the units down and I’m in the residence with somebody I believe resides here, but he’s being very uncooperative. So, that’s in real time,” Crowley told the sports-talk hosts.
“I’m not really sure how much you could hear from Professor Gates, you know, in the background. I, I don’t know. I haven’t heard the tapes.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Republican-Examiner~y2009m7d24-Cambridge-Police-poised-to-release-911-tape-recordings-in-connection-with-Gates-case

Sounds like somebody has been doing some backpedaling already.

that interview took place before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

You seem to know all the behind the scenes stuff!

I don't suppose you think Crowley, your hero, would have been so dumb as to not consider that a release of the tapes might be requested?

 

[del]

"In a radio interview yesterday morning with WEEI’s John Dennis and Gerry Callahan, Crowley, a 42-year-old father of three, said he hasn’t heard the tapes. “One of my first transmissions was to slow the units down and I’m in the residence with somebody I believe resides here, but he’s being very uncooperative. So, that’s in real time,” Crowley told the sports-talk hosts.
“I’m not really sure how much you could hear from Professor Gates, you know, in the background. I, I don’t know. I haven’t heard the tapes.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Republican-Examiner~y2009m7d24-Cambridge-Police-poised-to-release-911-tape-recordings-in-connection-with-Gates-case

Sounds like somebody has been doing some backpedaling already.

that interview took place before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

You seem to know all the behind the scenes stuff!

I don't suppose you think Crowley, your hero, would have been so dumb as to not consider that a release of the tapes might be requested?

if it's behind the scenes to know dates and their order from oldest to newest, then yeah, i'm a real insider.

i don't suppose you think crowley, my hero, amy have said he didn't know because he hadn't heard the tapes because he didn't know because he hadn't heard the tapes?

jebus

 

[Valerie]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpyOsUUA1BQ&feature=channel]YouTube - Uncut: Gates Reacts To Incident[/ame]

 

[Valerie]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK4rtxER2QM]YouTube - Sgt. James Crowley Speaks Out—Obama 'Offended Officers'[/ame]

 

[Anguille]

that interview took place before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

You seem to know all the behind the scenes stuff!

I don't suppose you think Crowley, your hero, would have been so dumb as to not consider that a release of the tapes might be requested?

if it's behind the scenes to know dates and their order from oldest to newest, then yeah, i'm a real insider.


jebus

before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

.

 

[del]

You seem to know all the behind the scenes stuff!

I don't suppose you think Crowley, your hero, would have been so dumb as to not consider that a release of the tapes might be requested?

if it's behind the scenes to know dates and their order from oldest to newest, then yeah, i'm a real insider.


jebus

before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

.

excuse me, before there was any public discussion of the tapes.
the fact remains, he hadn't heard the tapes and said so.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The interviews confirm that Crowley was irritated because Gates reserved the right to stay inside the protection of his home. It appears that both men were aware of the importance of this and like I've said before, Crowley decided to join the pissing contest and said "gotcha!" as soon as Gates walked outside. What a bunch of childish bullshit from two grown men and neither could see their way to rise above the other.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Harvard police weren't in the house, neither were any "onlookers" in the house. The officer responding got there alone, and the rest came afterward. The other police officers were standing on the front porch, and arrived after Gates went to the kitchen to get his wallet. So what could any of them confirm or deny about the officers version of events? Its the homeowners word against the police officer.

We don't know how much the police officers or onlookers may have heard coming from the house, but they certainly heard Gates' racial slurs and threats once Gates and Crowley were on the porch. And the fact that Gates continued to charge racial profiling when there is clearly no basis for that charge gives credibility to Crowley's version of what happened in the house.

They "certainly heard?" From where did you get that information? I'd like a look at it. Got a link to first hand accounts? Not the police, mind you, from "onlookers."

Three police officers told the same story and no one who was there contradicted them. No one has supported Gates' account. Gates' charge of racial profiling is clearly without any basis in fact or logic, so why are you so eager to believe what else he says?

 

[Anguille]

if it's behind the scenes to know dates and their order from oldest to newest, then yeah, i'm a real insider.


jebus

before there was any discussion of releasing the 911 tapes.

.

excuse me, before there was any public discussion of the tapes.
the fact remains, he hadn't heard the tapes and said so.

I don't think you get it. Of course he hadn't heard the tapes. But he knew, because he was there, that the tapes aren't going to back up his story that Gates was out of control.