And THERE You Have It... Why You're Paying $4+ For A Gallon Of Gas...

[Care4all]

Quite a thread ... took me awhile to read it all.......
I never realized Shogun was as freekin' stupid as hes shown in this thread....

Just how dumb can you be to think that drilling, pumping, refining and using our own oil (rather than buying ME oil at 140 bucks a bbl) is somehow bad for the country.....

that logic is so convoluted, it defies the imagination....

Its utterly useless to try to reason with someone so immersed in the koolade of the left ...this idiot will next tell us its cheaper to buy bottled water from France than to turn on our kitchen taps....

alpha,

what makes you think that oil companies will pull themselves OFF the global market and sell to America only?

and what makes you THINK the price they sell our oil back to us would not be the $140 a barrel....the asking global market price?

IF the oil is not nationalized, how do you keep it off the global market and here, only for us Americans? Do you have Congress write in to law that these oil companies can NOT be a part of the global market?

I truely do not understand HOW any of you can assure the oil they find on our land, will even go to us, let alone be ''sold'' to us at BELOW the global market value?

care

 

[Shogun]

Quite a thread ... took me awhile to read it all.......
I never realized Shogun was as freekin' stupid as hes shown in this thread....

Just how dumb can you be to think that drilling, pumping, refining and using our own oil (rather than buying ME oil at 140 bucks a bbl) is somehow bad for the country.....

that logic is so convoluted, it defies the imagination....

Its utterly useless to try to reason with someone so immersed in the koolade of the left ...this idiot will next tell us its cheaper to buy bottled water from France than to turn on our kitchen taps....

Probably LESS stupid than it would take someone to believe that 8 years of republican control of government was hindered by dems putting their foot down. FURTHER, probably LESS stupid than some idiot who thinks that harping on this desperate shit will make gas prices fall by october. Feel free to continue ignoring China since, I believe, the quote was "China Smima" and we can see how profound such a statement really is.


and, again, why don't you tell me why free market capitalists don't sit on your same bandwagon? Funny how we forget the excuse to buy hummers and SUVS a mere 4 years ago, eh?

If bottled water were paying rediculous CEO salaries while screwing the nation while it held a monopoly on liquid you may have had a point. As it is, you are nothing more than a loud breathing right wing dipshit who would rather knee jerk an accusation than comprehend how your own actions caused our current situation. Or, perhaps you want to lament another president who was as deep into the pockets of Saudi Arabians than your last presidential choice?

 

[editec]

what makes you think that oil companies will pull themselves OFF the global market and sell to America only?

and what makes you THINK the price they sell our oil back to us would not be the $140 a barrel....the asking global market price?

Exactly.

They're not OUR oil companies even if they happen to be corporations chartered in the USA.

They're privately owned corporations who seek to maximize profits by selling the oil to the highest bidder.

Now if we passed a law mandating that those oil companies drilling oil from US PUBLIC LANDS had to sell it to us at a specific price which was significantly lower than the world market, their interest in drilling those lands would likely cease to exist.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Exactly.

They're not OUR oil companies even if they happen to be corporations chartered in the USA.

They're privately owned corporations who seek to maximize profits by selling the oil to the highest bidder.

Now if we passed a law mandating that those oil companies drilling oil from US PUBLIC LANDS had to sell it to us at a specific price which was significantly lower than the world market, their interest in drilling those lands would likely cease to exist.

Which is why Congress should open up our public lands to only private American companies who agree to sell our oil only to Americans.....we have HUGE amounts of oil in shale....like 8 times the amount of the oil in Saudi Arabia...enough to supply us over a 100 years....and they're ready to begin drilling RIGHT NOW....if Congress would only lift the enviro crap off their backs...we could have one dollar gas...

 

[Shogun]

Which is why Congress should open up our public lands to only private American companies who agree to sell our oil only to Americans.....we have HUGE amounts of oil in shale....like 8 times the amount of the oil in Saudi Arabia...enough to supply us over a 100 years....and they're ready to begin drilling RIGHT NOW....if Congress would only lift the enviro crap off their backs...we could have one dollar gas...

and yet HOW does your idea reflect the "free market" we always hear about? ONLY private American oil companies? What the hell are those?

 

[ReillyT]

Which is why Congress should open up our public lands to only private American companies who agree to sell our oil only to Americans.....we have HUGE amounts of oil in shale....like 8 times the amount of the oil in Saudi Arabia...enough to supply us over a 100 years....and they're ready to begin drilling RIGHT NOW....if Congress would only lift the enviro crap off their backs...we could have one dollar gas...

If we force it to sell the oil to us at market rates, then it doesn't really do any good. If we refuse to pay the market price, then we reduce the incentive to drill at all. Of course, the next step would be nationalization. I am surprised that a conservative would be thinking of exploiting and interfering with the ability of private business to operate.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

and yet HOW does your idea reflect the "free market" we always hear about? ONLY private American oil companies? What the hell are those?

It's the free market as opposed to the GOVERNMENT doing it. Restriction to US companies and US markets would be in our NATIONAL INTEREST and prevent foreign entities from sucking away OUR oil from OUR lands...

If we force it to sell the oil to us at market rates, then it doesn't really do any good. If we refuse to pay the market price, then we reduce the incentive to drill at all. Of course, the next step would be nationalization. I am surprised that a conservative would be thinking of exploiting and interfering with the ability of private business to operate.

Other than keeping the oil for Americans only...which would be a condition of THE DEAL....who's saying anything about interfering with the ability of private business to operate?

 

[Shogun]

It's the free market as opposed to the GOVERNMENT doing it. Restriction to US companies and US markets would be in our NATIONAL INTEREST and prevent foreign entities from sucking away OUR oil from OUR lands...


Other than keeping the oil for Americans only...which would be a condition of THE DEAL....who's saying anything about interfering with the ability of private business to operate?

hehehehe... EEEEEEEEEEEEP.. wrong answer, buddy. If a democrat propsed your same strategy your side would be all over it like white on rice braying on about market forces, deregulation and supply and demand setting price. Again, this is why the fiscal corner of your team is silent as hell right now. They were telling you this was going to happen as the market normalizes itself globally.

But, for what it's worth, I have never agreed with the free market capitalists anyway and would probably hop on board as long as restrictions didn't allow oil profits to hemmorage out of the US. Blaming dems won't solve the energy crisis and neither will hoping that an invisable hand will have our best interest in mind.


and, by the very definition of REGULATION you are telling a private company how to do business. I do find it quaint that you seem to WANT to offer a strikingly lefty solution while trying to jam it into a conservative package.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

hehehehe... EEEEEEEEEEEEP.. wrong answer, buddy. If a democrat propsed your same strategy your side would be all over it like white on rice braying on about market forces, deregulation and supply and demand setting price. Again, this is why the fiscal corner of your team is silent as hell right now. They were telling you this was going to happen as the market normalizes itself globally.

But, for what it's worth, I have never agreed with the free market capitalists anyway and would probably hop on board as long as restrictions didn't allow oil profits to hemmorage out of the US. Blaming dems won't solve the energy crisis and neither will hoping that an invisable hand will have our best interest in mind.


and, by the very definition of REGULATION you are telling a private company how to do business. I do find it quaint that you seem to WANT to offer a strikingly lefty solution while trying to jam it into a conservative package.

It's not directly "setting price"….it's limiting the market...American oil for Americans only...the competition would be between American companies in the American market….not the global market where the demand for oil is growing...if some US oil companies want to deal in the global market...that's their business...but they would have to be separate from the strictly American oil companies...

This would stop the hemmoraging of profits draining out of the US....especially if Congress regulated the commodities market better than it has been doing...

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

If you limit oil companies and tell them that found-in-the-US oil can only be sold inside america, why would they spend their scarce resources finding and developing oil, when overseas finds are cheaper and easier and come with less restrictions?

But suppose they did. Oil is a commodity. If you squeeze domestic production hard enough to lower the price, that lower price will mean fewer foreign oil sellers willing to sell to us. Which means...more oil available for everyone else. Which is uhh...effectively the same as allowing american oil to be sold abroad.

The bottom line is, the US federal government should not even be owning vast tracts of land to begin with, much less setting socialistic requirements concerning their use. Auction the land off to the highest bidder and put the proceeds towards paying off the national debt.

Another perfect example of another tragedy of the commons.

Nothing you listed there has anything to do with a tragedy of the commons.

 

[Toro]

It's not directly "setting price"….it's limiting the market...American oil for Americans only...the competition would be between American companies in the American market….not the global market where the demand for oil is growing...if some US oil companies want to deal in the global market...that's their business...but they would have to be separate from the strictly American oil companies...

This would stop the hemmoraging of profits draining out of the US....especially if Congress regulated the commodities market better than it has been doing...

If the entire world decided to adopt this policy, then oil would be about $700 a barrel in the US because we consume something like 26 million barrels oil a day but only produce 16 million.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Probably LESS stupid than it would take someone to believe that 8 years of republican control of government was hindered by dems putting their foot down. FURTHER, probably LESS stupid than some idiot who thinks that harping on this desperate shit will make gas prices fall by october. Feel free to continue ignoring China since, I believe, the quote was "China Smima" and we can see how profound such a statement really is.


and, again, why don't you tell me why free market capitalists don't sit on your same bandwagon? Funny how we forget the excuse to buy hummers and SUVS a mere 4 years ago, eh?

If bottled water were paying rediculous CEO salaries while screwing the nation while it held a monopoly on liquid you may have had a point. As it is, you are nothing more than a loud breathing right wing dipshit who would rather knee jerk an accusation than comprehend how your own actions caused our current situation. Or, perhaps you want to lament another president who was as deep into the pockets of Saudi Arabians than your last presidential choice?

The fact of the matter is we have to do EVERYTHING to get us past this VERY REAL energy CRISIS. We have to drill and drill NOW, EVERYWHERE. We have to start panic building large numbers of NUCLEAR power plants. That is to get us ACROSS THE BRIDGE. So we can get for here to there. In the mean time, with time we buy by undertaking a massive new drilling effort and a run to nuclear power plants, we pump billions into new battery technology, bio-fuels, wind, solar, geo-thermal, hydroelectic, tidal technologies.

We have to DO IT ALL. We can piecemeal and cherry-pick only the things that are politically or environmentally sensitive or are our favorite things, we have to DO IT ALL. EVERY LAST BIT.

 

[Zoomie1980]

It's the free market as opposed to the GOVERNMENT doing it. Restriction to US companies and US markets would be in our NATIONAL INTEREST and prevent foreign entities from sucking away OUR oil from OUR lands...


Other than keeping the oil for Americans only...which would be a condition of THE DEAL....who's saying anything about interfering with the ability of private business to operate?

We can't refine hardly ANY of our Alaskan crude because it is HEAVY crude. Japan is about the only country on earth that can refine heavy crude in quantity because their industry was founded on the HEAVY crudes common in Indonesia where they originally got their oil in the early days of Japanese industrialism.

Our refineries require LIGHT-SWEET crude. To consume much of our own oil we would have to build whole NEW refineries....which we should probably do, anyway...

 

[Shogun]

It's not directly "setting price"….it's limiting the market...American oil for Americans only...the competition would be between American companies in the American market….not the global market where the demand for oil is growing...if some US oil companies want to deal in the global market...that's their business...but they would have to be separate from the strictly American oil companies...

This would stop the hemmoraging of profits draining out of the US....especially if Congress regulated the commodities market better than it has been doing...

feel free to read ole Baron's response and use another brand of kittey litter to scoop out the turd of Bush's impact on our energy crisis. Again, THIS IS WHY the fiscal side of your tent is sitting quietly in their seats while you look for ANY reason to blame a democrat. Don't blame us, blame your free market capitalists.

 

[Shogun]

The fact of the matter is we have to do EVERYTHING to get us past this VERY REAL energy CRISIS. We have to drill and drill NOW, EVERYWHERE. We have to start panic building large numbers of NUCLEAR power plants. That is to get us ACROSS THE BRIDGE. So we can get for here to there. In the mean time, with time we buy by undertaking a massive new drilling effort and a run to nuclear power plants, we pump billions into new battery technology, bio-fuels, wind, solar, geo-thermal, hydroelectic, tidal technologies.

We have to DO IT ALL. We can piecemeal and cherry-pick only the things that are politically or environmentally sensitive or are our favorite things, we have to DO IT ALL. EVERY LAST BIT.

I disagree. You sound like a junky fiending for the slightest hit off a glass dick. THIS is where the free market capitalists will tell you that innovation and new tech comes in to challenge the options of an old market. Indeed, rather than tease the population with alternative vehicles that only a fraction of the population will buy we need to start undermining the entire oil indistry with quickly affordable options. SPECIFICALLY, pimped out super golf carts for town and city driving created IN AMERICA, BY AMERICANS. Throwing money at the energy industry is such a shitty investment that I don't even know where to begin. FURTHER, it's not like these fat-necked bastards have been quick to help the general population while making every excuse for gouging the public. We can play this capitalist game BETTER by undermining the value of their product. If 20% of America dropped their daily use of oil products by driving to work in a souped up golf cart the price would drop overnight. Also, we won't be investing in private business that has a finite use and whose products are entirely too dirty for our 7 billion human population to use.



fuck oil companies. Invest in America.

 

[Gunny]

weather or not you are a fan doesn't belay the choices that were made during 00 and 04. Not to mention, this silly ass "dems said no" crap just doesn't gel after 8 years of near total control of our gov. Saying FUCKIT after the primaries doesn't make those hands come clean, yo. Indeed, vote against Obama. Thankfully, this time around, 8 years of his presidency will keep the right from having to run and purchase W sticker remover for their cars.

I'm not trying to belay the choices I made in 00 and 04. Given the same choices again, I would do exactly the same. I have ZERO problem with accepting the responsibility of my decisions -- decisions based as much on the DNC as the GOP.

Stop putting complete morons out there that are worse than the other almost-complete morons and I'll vote Dem in a heartbeat. Won't be the first time. If you think I'm supposed to feel bad about voting for Bush, I voted for Jimmy Carter, a shame I can STILL barely live with. I should be beaten for doing THAT.

But he promised "change." He was the outsider than was going to come in and fix shit. He fixed it alright. GMAFB. The current soundbytes are eerily familiar. Obama's not even original. He's just regurgitating Carter's original campaign.

So you're damned right I'll vote against Obama. Won't matter though. The GOP isn't supporting McCain like they would if they thought they had a winner. But Jimmy Carter Jr won't last more than 4. To quote an old Elton Jane song: "I've Seen That Movie Too."

 

[Gunny]

Probably LESS stupid than it would take someone to believe that 8 years of republican control of government was hindered by dems putting their foot down. FURTHER, probably LESS stupid than some idiot who thinks that harping on this desperate shit will make gas prices fall by october. Feel free to continue ignoring China since, I believe, the quote was "China Smima" and we can see how profound such a statement really is.


and, again, why don't you tell me why free market capitalists don't sit on your same bandwagon? Funny how we forget the excuse to buy hummers and SUVS a mere 4 years ago, eh?

If bottled water were paying rediculous CEO salaries while screwing the nation while it held a monopoly on liquid you may have had a point. As it is, you are nothing more than a loud breathing right wing dipshit who would rather knee jerk an accusation than comprehend how your own actions caused our current situation. Or, perhaps you want to lament another president who was as deep into the pockets of Saudi Arabians than your last presidential choice?

The government -- that would include 8 years of Clinton -- kept gas prices artificially low. Great tactic while worked, and it kept some people in office at the time, but a decision that we are now paying the piper for.

Had Reagan not brokered his deals with the Saudis and we had stayed in tune with the rest of the world, that whole SUV boom would never have happened.

But dude, you didn't have to drive any of those late-70s - early 80s pieces of shit. The payment book lasted longer than the cars.

We should have started doing something about this when Carter was President, and the one thing I'll give that bowl of Jell-O credit for is he DID try in that regard. Unfortunately, by then, he had already lost the support of even his own party in Congress, and they voted the way the oil lobby paid them to.

So, this isn't a Bush thing. This is house that was built on a foundation of sand 30 years ago, and everyone from then to now is equally to blame. We're getting slapped in the face with our own arrogance and "live for the moment" attitude, and elected officials who only have to concern themselves with the next 4 years.

 

[Shogun]

I'm not trying to belay the choices I made in 00 and 04. Given the same choices again, I would do exactly the same. I have ZERO problem with accepting the responsibility of my decisions -- decisions based as much on the DNC as the GOP.

Stop putting complete morons out there that are worse than the other almost-complete morons and I'll vote Dem in a heartbeat. Won't be the first time. If you think I'm supposed to feel bad about voting for Bush, I voted for Jimmy Carter, a shame I can STILL barely live with. I should be beaten for doing THAT.

But he promised "change." He was the outsider than was going to come in and fix shit. He fixed it alright. GMAFB. The current soundbytes are eerily familiar. Obama's not even original. He's just regurgitating Carter's original campaign.

So you're damned right I'll vote against Obama. Won't matter though. The GOP isn't supporting McCain like they would if they thought they had a winner. But Jimmy Carter Jr won't last more than 4. To quote an old Elton Jane song: "I've Seen That Movie Too."

I dont consider Obama anything close to a moron even if your conservtive side chaffes at his nomination. In fact, given the repeat that you admitted regarding 04 and 00 it's pretty silly to point a finger at dems while calling for a better candidate, eh?

I realize that many think that throwing Carters name around is supposed to mean something but i just don't subscribe to that silliness. We can point out the flaws of ole Ray gun too. It just so happens that your last two choices is why we find ourselves were we are at today. Don't lecture me about better choices given the jackass you fell hook line and sinker for last time. No one thought W would last a second term either. Seems to me that America is ready to move beyond 20th century politics NOW since we didn't get a chance to in 2000. Please, vote your concious.. But just know that it's pretty laughable for a single W voter to point a single finger at Barack HEUSEIN Obama.

 

[dilloduck]

I dont consider Obama anything close to a moron even if your conservtive side chaffes at his nomination. In fact, given the repeat that you admitted regarding 04 and 00 it's pretty silly to point a finger at dems while calling for a better candidate, eh?

I realize that many think that throwing Carters name around is supposed to mean something but i just don't subscribe to that silliness. We can point out the flaws of ole Ray gun too. It just so happens that your last two choices is why we find ourselves were we are at today. Don't lecture me about better choices given the jackass you fell hook line and sinker for last time. No one thought W would last a second term either. Seems to me that America is ready to move beyond 20th century politics NOW since we didn't get a chance to in 2000. Please, vote your concious.. But just know that it's pretty laughable for a single W voter to point a single finger at Barack HEUSEIN Obama.

When will Obama have the last US troop out of Iraq ? When has he promised he would have the last troop out of Iraq?

 

[Shogun]

The government -- that would include 8 years of Clinton -- kept gas prices artificially low. Great tactic while worked, and it kept some people in office at the time, but a decision that we are now paying the piper for.

Had Reagan not brokered his deals with the Saudis and we had stayed in tune with the rest of the world, that whole SUV boom would never have happened.

But dude, you didn't have to drive any of those late-70s - early 80s pieces of shit. The payment book lasted longer than the cars.

We should have started doing something about this when Carter was President, and the one thing I'll give that bowl of Jell-O credit for is he DID try in that regard. Unfortunately, by then, he had already lost the support of even his own party in Congress, and they voted the way the oil lobby paid them to.

So, this isn't a Bush thing. This is house that was built on a foundation of sand 30 years ago, and everyone from then to now is equally to blame. We're getting slapped in the face with our own arrogance and "live for the moment" attitude, and elected officials who only have to concern themselves with the next 4 years.

You are wrong. My second car in HS was a 78 ltd. A car that turned a three point turn into about6 points. My favorite car thus far has been a 79 Ranchero. I didn't come from a class of people who could afford new cars. Hell, you cant tell me that a 2000+ SUV had a FRAME that was sturdier than one of those iron horse german tanks that came out of the 70s. Indeed, in 90s I was in an auto accident driving a Silverado sport and a pinto, A FUCKING PINTO, ran into my ass putting their windshield against my bumper, sandwiching my truck against some early 80s caddy. This bent MY frame and totaled my truck. The Caddy? a broken tail light and a superficial dent on the bumper.

SUVs were sold to the population for the sake of overblown prediction of oil prices AND via tax incentives. Hell, my own company saw a full round of brand new SUVs after the gov decided to help out auto companies who, rather than provide economically friendly cars as had been desired since the mid 90s, decided to start pumping out road behemoths. Just look at the fucking Hummer, for christs sakes.


Im just not interested in blaming carter or looking for a reason to suck off an oil ceo. Its time to innovate rather than haggle over prices of oil, imho.