Americans and Brits start telling some truth about events in SE Ukraine

[Stratford57]

Graham Phillips, a British journalist

Who works for Pooty Putin's propaganda outfit, Russia today. LOL!

Because I work for RT Graham Phillips deported from Ukraine RT News

Yes, Graham Phillips as well as many other journalists was captured by Ukrainians while reporting about Ukrainian crisis and that only proves the fact: Ukrainians don’t want the world to know anything, which disagrees with official Kiev propaganda. Last June-July an Italian journalist and four Russian journalists were killed by Ukrainians (!). Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.
FYI, Phillips is in Donbass now, according to Ukrainians, Donbass belongs to Ukraine.

Why do you need wait for somebody to tell you about the truth? If you know that you are fed with lie will you accept it? American and Britain officials are successful in brainwashing own population. Do you seek for truth? Find it. Use different sources. Learn some languages. Speak to different people.

A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

That kind of tactics Obama and his administration are successfully using to manipulate your mind as well as minds of millions of their taxpayers. To me it smells terrible, but apparently, - not to many others.

Paul Joseph Goebbels(29 October1897–1 May1945) wasAdolf Hitler'sPropaganda MinisterinNazi Germany. He also served asChancellorfor one day, following Hitler's death. He was known for his zealous and energetic oratory and virulentanti-Semitism.

 

[tinydancer]

Just an FYI for those that don't know.

Here is the part of the Constitution of the Ukraine that was blatantly NOT followed by the Rada.

It pisses me off to no end that my Prime Minister and my government backed this coup. I don't give a flying rat's ass that this new government in the Ukraine is pro NATO. They obtained their positions illegally.

From Article III:

"The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Constitution of Ukraine 2010 - Wikisource the free online library

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why do you need wait for somebody to tell you about the truth? If you know that you are fed with lie will you accept it? American and Britain officials are successful in brainwashing own population. Do you seek for truth? Find it. Use different sources. Learn some languages. Speak to different people.

The Truth is objective, you know. BBC tells one story but you will hear an absolutely different story from CNN and Russia Today. We may compare facts and look for evidences. I can believe only my own eyes and ears.

As for me I do know the truth: I am from SE Ukraine. In May, 2014 Donbass (rebellious SE Ukraine) has had a referendum and with 85% voted for separation from Ukraine. (Remember, when the USSR split into 15 different countries, the officials in USA and Europe were pretty happy and did not even think to do anything to restore the USSR). And when 7 millions of people in SE Ukraine voted for separation last May and after that official Kiev started bombing their own people in Donbass, whose side official democRATS in Washington supported? You would think calling themselves democrats, they would support the choice of 7 millions in Dobass rather than a few clowns in Kiev, who came to the power after the unconstitutional coup last February? Instead they started sending their high ranked officials one after another (Biden, Nuland, Brennan, Hodges, etc.) to advise official Kiev how to better kill its own people in Donbass. At the same time they started unbelievable propaganda in their Media, spreading false information that Putin has anything to do with this conflict (without any trustworthy evidence!).

Obama, HANDS OFF UKRAINE !

People, if somebody shows you Russian tanks and tells: it’s an evidence for Russian aggression in Ukraine, try to find this picture on the Internet, it may have been taken actually in Russia and several years ago . That’s a common trick now: to show a real picture with the false explanation.

PEOPLE, STAY ALERT !

In May, 2014 Donbass (rebellious SE Ukraine) has had a referendum and with 85% voted for separation from Ukraine.

You have a picture of the ballot? Or the wording of all the choices?

clowns in Kiev, who came to the power after the unconstitutional coup last February?

You mean after Putin's puppet fled and the parliament voted for new elections?

At the same time they started unbelievable propaganda in their Media, spreading false information that Putin has anything to do with this conflict



I know, hard to believe that Russian military would take their equipment, including tanks, into Ukraine without permission, but that had to be what happened. LOL!

Normally we are on the same page Toddster, but on this issue I beg to differ.

This was a coup that took place in Kiev. And it was unconstitutional.

Yes, it was very sad when Pooty's puppet fled the country he'd been looting.
Fled to Russia. What was the vote to remove him? 100%?
Sorry, Vlad should get his fucking troops out of Ukraine. Commie bastard!

No Toddster. With all due respect they did not follow the constitutional requirements to legally remove him from office.

And knowing Svoboda and the Right Sector goons were hunting him, I don't blame him for running for his life. They would have killed him.

With all due respect they did not follow the constitutional requirements to legally remove him from office.

Boohoo. After shooting protestors, he had to go.

I don't blame him for running for his life.

Yeah, crooked thugs who kill their own people sometimes need to do that.
Hopefully Putin will have to flee for his life soon.
Hopefully he'll be too slow.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Graham Phillips, a British journalist

Who works for Pooty Putin's propaganda outfit, Russia today. LOL!

Because I work for RT Graham Phillips deported from Ukraine RT News

Yes, Graham Phillips as well as many other journalists was captured by Ukrainians while reporting about Ukrainian crisis and that only proves the fact: Ukrainians don’t want the world to know anything, which disagrees with official Kiev propaganda. Last June-July an Italian journalist and four Russian journalists were killed by Ukrainians (!). Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.
FYI, Phillips is in Donbass now, according to Ukrainians, Donbass belongs to Ukraine.

Why do you need wait for somebody to tell you about the truth? If you know that you are fed with lie will you accept it? American and Britain officials are successful in brainwashing own population. Do you seek for truth? Find it. Use different sources. Learn some languages. Speak to different people.

A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

That kind of tactics Obama and his administration are successfully using to manipulate your mind as well as minds of millions of their taxpayers. To me it smells terrible, but apparently, - not to many others.

Paul Joseph Goebbels(29 October1897–1 May1945) wasAdolf Hitler'sPropaganda MinisterinNazi Germany. He also served asChancellorfor one day, following Hitler's death. He was known for his zealous and energetic oratory and virulentanti-Semitism.

Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.

Wait, Putin murders journalists in Russia and now a Putin suckup is whining about journalists killed in a war zone?

How ironic.
Stick your Russian propaganda up your ass.

 

[william the wie]

Graham Phillips, a British journalist

Who works for Pooty Putin's propaganda outfit, Russia today. LOL!

Because I work for RT Graham Phillips deported from Ukraine RT News

Yes, Graham Phillips as well as many other journalists was captured by Ukrainians while reporting about Ukrainian crisis and that only proves the fact: Ukrainians don’t want the world to know anything, which disagrees with official Kiev propaganda. Last June-July an Italian journalist and four Russian journalists were killed by Ukrainians (!). Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.
FYI, Phillips is in Donbass now, according to Ukrainians, Donbass belongs to Ukraine.

Why do you need wait for somebody to tell you about the truth? If you know that you are fed with lie will you accept it? American and Britain officials are successful in brainwashing own population. Do you seek for truth? Find it. Use different sources. Learn some languages. Speak to different people.

A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

That kind of tactics Obama and his administration are successfully using to manipulate your mind as well as minds of millions of their taxpayers. To me it smells terrible, but apparently, - not to many others.

Paul Joseph Goebbels(29 October1897–1 May1945) wasAdolf Hitler'sPropaganda MinisterinNazi Germany. He also served asChancellorfor one day, following Hitler's death. He was known for his zealous and energetic oratory and virulentanti-Semitism.

Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.

Wait, Putin murders journalists in Russia and now a Putin suckup is whining about journalists killed in a war zone?

How ironic.
Stick your Russian propaganda up your ass.

Afraid Kiev will cut your pay?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Graham Phillips, a British journalist

Who works for Pooty Putin's propaganda outfit, Russia today. LOL!

Because I work for RT Graham Phillips deported from Ukraine RT News

Yes, Graham Phillips as well as many other journalists was captured by Ukrainians while reporting about Ukrainian crisis and that only proves the fact: Ukrainians don’t want the world to know anything, which disagrees with official Kiev propaganda. Last June-July an Italian journalist and four Russian journalists were killed by Ukrainians (!). Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.
FYI, Phillips is in Donbass now, according to Ukrainians, Donbass belongs to Ukraine.

Why do you need wait for somebody to tell you about the truth? If you know that you are fed with lie will you accept it? American and Britain officials are successful in brainwashing own population. Do you seek for truth? Find it. Use different sources. Learn some languages. Speak to different people.

A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

That kind of tactics Obama and his administration are successfully using to manipulate your mind as well as minds of millions of their taxpayers. To me it smells terrible, but apparently, - not to many others.

Paul Joseph Goebbels(29 October1897–1 May1945) wasAdolf Hitler'sPropaganda MinisterinNazi Germany. He also served asChancellorfor one day, following Hitler's death. He was known for his zealous and energetic oratory and virulentanti-Semitism.

Ukraine now is a country, dangerous for the journalists, who try to report the truth.

Wait, Putin murders journalists in Russia and now a Putin suckup is whining about journalists killed in a war zone?

How ironic.
Stick your Russian propaganda up your ass.

Afraid Kiev will cut your pay?

Laughing at Russian propaganda can earn me a paycheck?
Excellent! I've been laughing at Commie lies all these years, for free.

 

[william the wie]

A few tidbits for you,

five countries allow unrestricted Assisted Reproductive Technology (ART) involving 3rd parties in the Eastern Hemisphere.

Thailand and India compete on price.

Russia, Georgia and the Ukraine compete on quality.

The EU very much disapproves of 3rd party ART

The idiots running Kiev currently did not check on the profit margins from this high growth/high tech industry and where the Ukrainian clinics were (Crimea and Eastern Ukraine) before objecting to the turn away from Europe.

Just to make sure the idiots do not have a return to sanity Russia has launched a high profile treason trial alleging a mother of 7 informed Ukraine that an intelligence company, Spetsnaz, had been dispatched to the Ukraine. This being Russia the Napoleonic code could have been used to keep all details out of the press but that is not the case and you can go to RT.com to read the very detailed charges.

 

[Stratford57]

This 6 min video shows Donetsk after Ukrainian Army shelling today. It looks like we are back to the war with German Nazis in 1941. But Ukraine is full of modern Nazis and their amount grows every day and those are the ones who Western World chose to support in their bloody war on Donbass civilians.
21 Ukraine Shelling Hits Donetsk Today Novorossia Today

 

[hipeter924]

I don't believe the line pushed by the US, Ukrainian, and Russian governments.

Though even if you are to claim that there aren't Russian soldiers, explain where all these military professionals come from and how they have all this advanced Russian military hardware.

It fits all the criteria of a Russian style takeover, complete with covert military deployments and indirect military assistance with weapons and training.

Russia has all but won in Ukraine, but denies its involvement, and won't be satisfied till it has two regions of Ukraine fully under rebel control. The peace talks won't happen till there is a military stalemate.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This 6 min video shows Donetsk after Ukrainian Army shelling today. It looks like we are back to the war with German Nazis in 1941. But Ukraine is full of modern Nazis and their amount grows every day and those are the ones who Western World chose to support in their bloody war on Donbass civilians.
21 Ukraine Shelling Hits Donetsk Today Novorossia Today

Germans Nazis, Russian Communists. No difference.

 

[Camp]

Muslim Chechens have been brought into Ukraine to kill Ukrainians in Ukraine. Russian soldiers are entering Ukraine to kill Ukrainians in Ukraine. Both are supplied with Russian weapons that include sophisticated air defense systems and an endless supply of heavy weapons such as Russia's best tanks and other armored vehicles, artillery and rocket launching systems. Even as the Russians deny these charges and claim the soldiers and Chechen mercenaries are "volunteers", they can not explain how and why these forces are able to transit through Russia and cross Russian borders as they enter Ukraine. No one believes the Russian lies because everyone knows that Russia could stop infiltration into Ukraine immediately if they chose to follow international law. Only the most propagandized believe the nonsense that comes out of Moscow.

In regards to the government in Kiev, there have been three elections to confirm the government. Elections that were witnessed and judged fair by observers and the world community. All the countries in Europe, and indeed, at the United Nations, accept the government in Kiev as the legitimate government of Ukraine. To date, non of the rebel governments, including Crimea, Donetsk or Luhansk have been recognized as legitimate elected governments. They are formally recognized by the world community as illegal and illegitimate entities with no standing.

 

[Camp]

Just an FYI for those that don't know.

Here is the part of the Constitution of the Ukraine that was blatantly NOT followed by the Rada.

It pisses me off to no end that my Prime Minister and my government backed this coup. I don't give a flying rat's ass that this new government in the Ukraine is pro NATO. They obtained their positions illegally.

From Article III:

"The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Constitution of Ukraine 2010 - Wikisource the free online library

You might have had a debatable issue for a short time after the Parliament decided to chase the corrupt government out of the country and seeking sanctuary from their paymasters in Russia. It isn't the vote of the Parliament you have an argument to debate, but rather the technicality of not holding a time consuming investigation after naming a commission to schedule the naming of the special procurator and special investigators, Ukrainians decided to just get rid of the thieves and thugs. Ukrainians were being shot down in large numbers outside the Parliament and in the central square and traditional place for demonstrations and public assemblies. The people wanted to snatch their leader up and hang him in the square, probably by his heels after beating him. But hey, you have that temporary time frame to debate.
Once the internationally monitored and observed elections were held, the window of opportunity to debate ended. There have been three elections held that overwhelmingly supported the ousting of the old government and the support for the new government. Your side of the debate lost and should have been conceded by you with the overwhelming results of those monitored elections. It was always a Russian propaganda rant anyway. It apparently still is for those who oppose freedom for the Ukrainian people and reject Russian domination. Russian domination with a little help from the Chechen mercenaries.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just an FYI for those that don't know.

Here is the part of the Constitution of the Ukraine that was blatantly NOT followed by the Rada.

It pisses me off to no end that my Prime Minister and my government backed this coup. I don't give a flying rat's ass that this new government in the Ukraine is pro NATO. They obtained their positions illegally.

From Article III:

"The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Constitution of Ukraine 2010 - Wikisource the free online library

It pisses me off to no end that my Prime Minister and my government backed this coup.

You're right, they should have fought to bring back Putin's puppet.
Maybe they should have helped him slaughter more protestors?
Gotta protect that constitution above all else.
Sorry, fail.

 

[Stratford57]

I don't believe the line pushed by the US, Ukrainian, and Russian governments.

Though even if you are to claim that there aren't Russian soldiers, explain where all these military professionals come from and how they have all this advanced Russian military hardware.

It fits all the criteria of a Russian style takeover, complete with covert military deployments and indirect military assistance with weapons and training.

Russia has all but won in Ukraine, but denies its involvement, and won't be satisfied till it has two regions of Ukraine fully under rebel control. The peace talks won't happen till there is a military stalemate.

Well, it’s not an easy question you asked. To answer it I need to be back to the very beginning of the conflict in Dec, 2013. A couple of thousands of Ukrainians, who were not pleased with the current president, arrived to Kiev for protests. (Reminds Fergusson a little, doesn’t it? BTW, Soros paid both Kiev and Ferguson protests). Many EU and American officials (McCain, Nuland, Geoffrey Pyatt, etc.) started coming to Kiev to encourage those protesters. (I just wonder,what would American people think if Russian officials arrived to Ferguson to encourage their protests?). After the unconstitutional coup, which was welcomed and supported by Obama and his administration, American officials (Biden, Nuland, Brennan, Hodges) started coming to Kiev one after another to direct the actions of Kiev Junta against the people who did not agree with the coup. There were 9 areas in SE Ukraine (Crimea, Donetsk, Lughansk, Kharkov, Zaporozhe, Nikolayev, Kherson, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, it’s marked with red&pink on the map), which started their numerous protests against Kiev Junta and for being with Russia and demanding to have referendums about it. Kiev Junta was afraid of the referendums and didn’t allow them. Crimea was the only one area who had one and with 95% votes went to Russia without even one shot. (Crimea is a red peninsula at the bottom of the map below).

In May, 2014 Donbass ( Lughansk&Donetsk areas, red spot on the right of the map below) also has had a referendum and with 85% voted for independence from Ukraine. After that Kiev has sent its tanks and soldiers to make Donbass surrender and all Donbass stood up. The war has started. And as you can see, it was not Donbass, who came to Kiev (in the middle of the map), it’s vice verse. At the beginning the men (and some women) from Donbass did not have either weapons or skills to fight with Ukrainian soldiers. However Ukrainian soldiers (before and now) were not too motivated to fight the civilians, and the majority of them didn’t have any skills either. That’s why Kiev started an ugly propaganda against Donbass people, calling all of them (7 millions!) terrorists and semi-people (just like Hitler did, nice choice of tactics, ha?). Also Ukrainian Army commanders make the soldiers shell Donbass villages and cities from Grads, Uragans, ballistic rockets “Tochka-U” from about 15 miles distance, so they don’t even see, that they are killing women, children, seniors, etc. The rebels from Donbass had their homes and families behind them to protect, so their motivation was and is much stronger. But their hands were tied: they couldn’t use any Grads back, because they couldn’t shell their own lands and people.

In May and June Ukrainian Army pretty easy captured Western half of Donbass (and until now the rebels control only Eastern part of Donbass, the rest of it is controlled by Ukrainians), but by that time rebels have found out how to put Ukrainians into pocket sectors. There were 3 or 4 such pocket sector last August and one just a few days ago with 8-10 thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and weapons (watch the video). Then rebels would let those Ukrainians, who surrender and abandon their weapons, go and let them live. So, more and more Ukrainian weapons started slipping into rebels’ hands. Again, if Russia had its regular troops in Ukraine, they would already move much deeper inside the country since last May, don’t you think? Right now the areas, controlled by rebels contain about 3,5 million people versus 40 million population of Ukraine (without Crimea).



To answer the question about Russian role in this conflict, let’s first answer a question: who gains from this conflict? Definitely, not Russia. Having a hot war next to its borders weakens Russia. Besides 800 thousands refugees fled from Ukraine to Russia since last summer and it sucks up a lot of money from Russia to support them. Does USA gain from this conflict? Why not? Remember, who contributed to set the fire of conflict on from its very beginning and still keeps supporting the war? To me it’s very clear: war in Ukraine will be over as soon as West stops financing it. Besides, it’s very easy and painless for official Washington to use Ukraine as a pawn (they don’t care how many Ukrainian lives it will take) to give Russia a constant headache right next to its borders and to weaken it that way.

Today there appeared a very good article, which may also answer a lot of questions about Ukraine and Putin’s plans about it.
Why the West s Strategy of Containing an Aggressive Putin Is Misplaced Samuel Ramani

Hipeter, it took me almost whole day to make a long story short and to answer as many possible questions as I could. Let me know, if you are satisfied or not. If not, I am ready to answer more questions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't believe the line pushed by the US, Ukrainian, and Russian governments.

Though even if you are to claim that there aren't Russian soldiers, explain where all these military professionals come from and how they have all this advanced Russian military hardware.

It fits all the criteria of a Russian style takeover, complete with covert military deployments and indirect military assistance with weapons and training.

Russia has all but won in Ukraine, but denies its involvement, and won't be satisfied till it has two regions of Ukraine fully under rebel control. The peace talks won't happen till there is a military stalemate.

Well, it’s not an easy question you asked. To answer it I need to be back to the very beginning of the conflict in Dec, 2013. A couple of thousands of Ukrainians, who were not pleased with the current president, arrived to Kiev for protests. (Reminds Fergusson a little, doesn’t it? BTW, Soros paid both Kiev and Ferguson protests). Many EU and American officials (McCain, Nuland, Geoffrey Pyatt, etc.) started coming to Kiev to encourage those protesters. (I just wonder,what would American people think if Russian officials arrived to Ferguson to encourage their protests?). After the unconstitutional coup, which was welcomed and supported by Obama and his administration, American officials (Biden, Nuland, Brennan, Hodges) started coming to Kiev one after another to direct the actions of Kiev Junta against the people who did not agree with the coup. There were 9 areas in SE Ukraine (Crimea, Donetsk, Lughansk, Kharkov, Zaporozhe, Nikolayev, Kherson, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, it’s marked with red&pink on the map), which started their numerous protests against Kiev Junta and for being with Russia and demanding to have referendums about it. Kiev Junta was afraid of the referendums and didn’t allow them. Crimea was the only one area who had one and with 95% votes went to Russia without even one shot. (Crimea is a red peninsula at the bottom of the map below).

In May, 2014 Donbass ( Lughansk&Donetsk areas, red spot on the right of the map below) also has had a referendum and with 85% voted for independence from Ukraine. After that Kiev has sent its tanks and soldiers to make Donbass surrender and all Donbass stood up. The war has started. And as you can see, it was not Donbass, who came to Kiev (in the middle of the map), it’s vice verse. At the beginning the men (and some women) from Donbass did not have either weapons or skills to fight with Ukrainian soldiers. However Ukrainian soldiers (before and now) were not too motivated to fight the civilians, and the majority of them didn’t have any skills either. That’s why Kiev started an ugly propaganda against Donbass people, calling all of them (7 millions!) terrorists and semi-people (just like Hitler did, nice choice of tactics, ha?). Also Ukrainian Army commanders make the soldiers shell Donbass villages and cities from Grads, Uragans, ballistic rockets “Tochka-U” from about 15 miles distance, so they don’t even see, that they are killing women, children, seniors, etc. The rebels from Donbass had their homes and families behind them to protect, so their motivation was and is much stronger. But their hands were tied: they couldn’t use any Grads back, because they couldn’t shell their own lands and people.

In May and June Ukrainian Army pretty easy captured Western half of Donbass (and until now the rebels control only Eastern part of Donbass, the rest of it is controlled by Ukrainians), but by that time rebels have found out how to put Ukrainians into pocket sectors. There were 3 or 4 such pocket sector last August and one just a few days ago with 8-10 thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and weapons (watch the video). Then rebels would let those Ukrainians, who surrender and abandon their weapons, go and let them live. So, more and more Ukrainian weapons started slipping into rebels’ hands. Again, if Russia had its regular troops in Ukraine, they would already move much deeper inside the country since last May, don’t you think? Right now the areas, controlled by rebels contain about 3,5 million people versus 40 million population of Ukraine (without Crimea).



To answer the question about Russian role in this conflict, let’s first answer a question: who gains from this conflict? Definitely, not Russia. Having a hot war next to its borders weakens Russia. Besides 800 thousands refugees fled from Ukraine to Russia since last summer and it sucks up a lot of money from Russia to support them. Does USA gain from this conflict? Why not? Remember, who contributed to set the fire of conflict on from its very beginning and still keeps supporting the war? To me it’s very clear: war in Ukraine will be over as soon as West stops financing it. Besides, it’s very easy and painless for official Washington to use Ukraine as a pawn (they don’t care how many Ukrainian lives it will take) to give Russia a constant headache right next to its borders and to weaken it that way.

Today there appeared a very good article, which may also answer a lot of questions about Ukraine and Putin’s plans about it.
Why the West s Strategy of Containing an Aggressive Putin Is Misplaced Samuel Ramani

Hipeter, it took me almost whole day to make a long story short and to answer as many possible questions as I could. Let me know, if you are satisfied or not. If not, I am ready to answer more questions.

Kiev Junta was afraid of the referendums and didn’t allow them. Crimea was the only one area who had one and with 95% votes went to Russia without even one shot.

Why don't you post the choices that were on the Crimea referendum?

 

[georgephillip]

If Pooty Poot stopped invading his neighbors, things would be better.

Maybe you should call Vicky Venal and ask for your money back?
"Regime Change in Kiev

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, 'Democratic Institutions'"

Victoria Nuland Admits US Has Invested 5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian Democratic Institutions

 

[Stratford57]

Kiev Junta was afraid of the referendums and didn’t allow them. Crimea was the only one area who had one and with 95% votes went to Russia without even one shot.
Why don't you post the choices that were on the Crimea referendum?

There were 2 questions (choices) on Crimean referendum:
1. to reunite with Russia;
2. to stay with Ukraine.



^ Night in Crimea on March, 16 after the referendum turned into a real holiday. Crimean people were having fun, singing and dancing all night long because according the preliminary results of voting they we going HOME: back to Russia. Reminding: in 50-s Khrushchev “gave” Crimean peninsula to Ukrainian Socialist Republic (within the USSR). Nobody in Crimea was too happy about that decision, especially after the USSR split into 15 different countries and all the ethnic Russians found themselves in a foreign country of Ukraine, which was becoming more and more unfriendly to the Russian speaking population.

 

[theHawk]

Just an FYI for those that don't know.

Here is the part of the Constitution of the Ukraine that was blatantly NOT followed by the Rada.

It pisses me off to no end that my Prime Minister and my government backed this coup. I don't give a flying rat's ass that this new government in the Ukraine is pro NATO. They obtained their positions illegally.

From Article III:

"The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.

The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Constitution of Ukraine 2010 - Wikisource the free online library

It's probably fair to say corruption is rampant in that part of the world. Either way, it's for those people to figure out, not anyone else.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The people in eastern Ukraine used force to drive right wing Ukrainians out of Russian speaking areas. After pro-Russian militias prevailed then the major violence broke out when Kiev sent troops into the rebel region to force Ukrainian right wing authority over Russian speaking people which made no sense like it would have made no sense in Crimea. Crimea was in a better position to separate because events happened quickly during the turmoil and violence of the Maidan Protest and the breakdown of constitutional governance and the Ukrainian right overthrowing an ekected government.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Kiev Junta was afraid of the referendums and didn’t allow them. Crimea was the only one area who had one and with 95% votes went to Russia without even one shot.
Why don't you post the choices that were on the Crimea referendum?

There were 2 questions (choices) on Crimean referendum:
1. to reunite with Russia;
2. to stay with Ukraine.



^ Night in Crimea on March, 16 after the referendum turned into a real holiday. Crimean people were having fun, singing and dancing all night long because according the preliminary results of voting they we going HOME: back to Russia. Reminding: in 50-s Khrushchev “gave” Crimean peninsula to Ukrainian Socialist Republic (within the USSR). Nobody in Crimea was too happy about that decision, especially after the USSR split into 15 different countries and all the ethnic Russians found themselves in a foreign country of Ukraine, which was becoming more and more unfriendly to the Russian speaking population.

There were 2 questions (choices) on Crimean referendum:
1. to reunite with Russia;
2. to stay with Ukraine.

No, really, what were the choices?