American Jews and liberalism

[Jroc]

So you're using as your arguments things that were never implemented and things that never happened to buttress your views.

Interesting.

Facts are facts given a little more time and had Hitler prevailed this is what National Socialism was about, I could go on all night but conservatives tend to work, so see yeah.

 

[Sallow]

So you're using as your arguments things that were never implemented and things that never happened to buttress your views.

Interesting.

Facts are facts given a little more time and had Hitler prevailed this is what National Socialism was about, I could go on all night but conservatives tend to work, so see yeah.

What facts?

You've posted things the Nazis never did. And populist promises they made but never kept.

It's speculation.

You think North Korea will suddenly become a Democratic Republic under the current Regime? Really?

 

[Political Junky]

Oh..and here's the kicker.

Hitler was a christian. And a fascist. Which made him pretty much a conservative.

Nazi ‘Master Plan’ to Get Church Is Revealed


CAMDEN, New Jersey— The Catholic Church and other Christian denominations suffered significant persecution under the Nazi regime in the 1930s and 1940s, according to a document released last month through the collaboration of Cornell (N.Y.) University and Rutgers University Law School in Camden, N.J.

The document, “The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches,” was published online Jan. 9 in the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion.

The document, which is stamped “confidential” and dated July 6, 1945, was compiled by Franz Neumann, a Jewish expatriate, for the Office of Strategic Services, or OSS — the forerunner of the CIA— as part of the preparation for the Nuremberg war crimes trials.

“The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches” was originally part of the collection of Nuremberg-related documents in the collection of Gen. William J. “Wild Bill” Donovan, founder of the OSS. The collection was gifted to Cornell University Law Library in 1998.

The document begins, “This study describes, with illustrative factual evidence, Nazi purposes, policies and methods of persecuting the Christian Churches in Germany and occupied Europe.” The document states that attacks “against the Christian Churches were an integral part of the National Socialist Scheme of world conquest,” and adds that, “National Socialism by its very nature was hostile to Christianity and the Christian Churches.”

Among the listed targets for Nazi abuse were Catholic bishops and priests, Catholic newspapers, Catholic schools, seminaries and religious orders, both in Germany and in occupied territories. The OSS document also describes the “murder of a large number of Catholic priests” in Poland



Read more: Nazi Master Plan to Get Church Is Revealed | News | NCRegister.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)

Amazing then that the Catholic Church helped Nazis escape Europe after WW2.

 

[The Rabbi]

Protest it all you want, but none of the "Socialist" things you are posting were implemented by the Nazis.

Lots of things haven't been implemented by the Democrats either.
Your point?

Jroc has laid out exquisitly (I might add) the basic program of the Nazis. And in its state control for the betterment of man and its distrust of the individual (Goerring declared their aim was to roll back the Enlightenment) they exactly resemble the leftist Democrats of today.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism


People often make the claim that Adolph Hitler adhered to Atheism, Humanism or some ancient Nordic pagan mythology. None of these fanciful and wrong ideas hold. Although one of Hitler's henchmen, Alfred Rosenberg, did undertake a campaign of Nordic mythological propaganda, Hitler and most of his henchmen did not believe in it .

Many American books, television documentaries, and Sunday sermons that preach of Hitler's "evil" have eliminated Hitler's god for their Christian audiences, but one only has to read from his own writings to appreciate that Hitler's God equals the same God of the Christian Bible. Hitler held many hysterical beliefs which not only include, God and Providence but also Fate, Social Darwinism, and ideological politics. He spoke, unashamedly, about God, fanaticism, idealism, dogma, and the power of propaganda. Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! As evidence to his claimed Christianity, he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
<more>

Note the speech was made in 1922, long before he even came to power. Long before there was a Nazi party.

 

[Steve Hanson]

Oh..and here's the kicker.

Hitler was a christian. And a fascist. Which made him pretty much a conservative.

Hitler was pretty much agnostic. He was born into a Christian family, was also rumored to have Jewish blood.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Perhaps they expect to be on the right side this time.

Eflatminor writes:

You'd think Jews today would be the most staunch limited government supporters out there but just the opposite is true.​

I've always sorta, kinda wondered the same thing myself.

But JBeukema says that "[p]erhaps they expect to be on the right side this time."

Not a very smart expectation, then. Right? But of course you're implying that the classical liberal view of government is synonymous with . . . fascist socialism?! Not a very snappy retort after all, then. Right?

Just weird.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I dunno why Hitler's religion matters, we've had awful murderous individuals in history of every religious and non-religious background, none of those individuals should be used in applying a label to those who share their religious belief or lack of belief.

 

[The Rabbi]

I dunno why Hitler's religion matters, we've had awful murderous individuals in history of every religious and non-religious background, none of those individuals should be used in applying a label to those who share their religious belief or lack of belief.

I agree with you for once. It's like lumping together Albert Schweitzer and the Westboro Baptists.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Note the speech was made in 1922, long before he even came to power. Long before there was a Nazi party.

Long before whatever is irrelevant. LOL!

As if anyone had to be told that Fascism and Christianity are diametrically opposed systems of thought, as if it weren't obvious what the Nazis intended to do after the war&#8212;it's been irrefutably known for years that Hitler's prattle was strictly for public consumption.

Even Christopher Hitchens (a man whom I used to respect, despite his atheism, given that we share the same political philosophy) has spouted similar things, as if Hitler's religion or even that of his soldier's mattered at all with respect to the murderous ideology that was actually served. This from a man of letters, stuff akin to birtherism.

The New York Times, &#8220;Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler&#8217;s Forces Planned to Destroy German Christianity&#8221;, by Joe Sharkey (Jan. 13, 2002)