American Credibility

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by dilloduck, May 10, 2004.

  1. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    It's time for a show of hands. Who all has been damaged by the torture of the Iraqs and all the tremendous collateral damage that was predicted to ensue? I realize that the Iraqis who were photographed still feel it because the media (can you tell I got a thing against the media) feels a need to repeat this torture by showing the photos AD NAUSEUM. If shame was the pain they felt why keep inflicting it on them. Do we really need to make sure every sob in the world needs to know what some Iraqi looks like naked? It had been suggested that it will take 50 years to repair the damage so I wanna get a timeline going here so I can document out progress.

    I need some verification that this damage was a direct result of tortured Iraqis and damage that results due to arab hatred prior to the incident are naturally void. Also void are those who are appalled that Americans could do such a thing. That damage is a result of your fairy tale visions that we are all incapable of such a thing.

    If you are damaged because of your anger that these few make the rest of our troops look bad please tell me who it is that thinks all our troops are like the troops who did this.

    Our troops morale is the responsibilty of their commanders who I feel can easily make the distintion between a soldier and bonehead. Have faith . Our men will not hang thier heads for long unless its to duck bullets.

    Saudi Arabia is now asking opec to increase production----ooops thats a good thing-not damaging.

    Threats by Osama and radical clerics? So whats new. The people who believed them before see us as the great Satan and this is something that a great Satan would do.

    Now the radical clerics have more credibilty? I doubt it but if they get a few more converts are they going attack us? Thats void to. Its already been done PRIOR to the torture.

    OK put on your thinking caps. I'm really open to here proof that Americas credibilty has been damaged so badly that we need to feel as bad as people say we should.


    ok hands--do I see any hands??

    STAY THE COURSE !
     
  2. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    America's credibility has been somewhat damaged. I don't believe its permanent and I don't think it will take 50 years to fix. Some simple basic understanding of the differences between our two cultures can go a long way to fixing whats been done.

    First off, this damage has been done by many members of ONE UNIT. Unless further investigation shows that this is a more widespread issue, thats where it stands. I'm ashamed because of the actions of that ONE UNIT, not our military. I will continue to watch our government to help ensure that the appropriate people are punished and that it never happens again.

    Back to the differences between our cultures.

    The middle east has a primarily shame culture. Unlike the american guilt culture, the shame culture has a very different value standard for what is damaging to them. Nudity of most sorts is not only offensive, but shameful. Thats their culture, generations of imposed behavior standards that define who they are. To use that 'shame' can be as damaging, if not more so, than physically abusing them. If you can't understand they why's, thats fine, just understand that it is.

    Now, we americans look at these acts as 'frat pranks' or simple humiliation because we'd be little shamed by having to do that ourselves. Hell, given a choice between wearing womens underwear or enduring days at a time as a punching bag/tackling dummy/pain tolerance tester/how many broken bones does it take.....you get the picture, then guess what? I'm the next victoria's secret model. why? because I can except that humiliation over pain and quite possibly my life.

    Maybe that has something to do with more sexual openness in this country, I don't know for sure, but thats the way it is and if we want to show these iraqi people that we liberated them because they deserve freedom from an oppressive regime, then marginalizing the abuse that has happened isn't going to be the way to do it.
     
  3. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    The photos from Abu Ghraib gave the terrorists a moral victory they could never have achieved on their own. While the folks involved in that sordid affair are in no way representative of our armed forces, they don't need to be. Now, to the Muslim mind and especially to the radical fundamantalist Muslim all Americans are degenerates and perverts. What moral superiority we had has been lost, and to their eyes, America is no better than a rogue state.

    America's credibility in the Middle East took a body blow when Dubbyuh gave Ariel Sharon carte blanche to do what he wanted to in Gaza and the West Bank. The events that transpired at Abu Ghraib delivered the KO to US credibility. And I think we shall find that those events have their genesis higher up the chain of command than many here would like to believe.
     
  4. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I dont think our credibility has been damaged at all. I mean yeah there are some pictures out there of American soldiers doing bad stuff to prisoners but we all know they will be punished. meanwhile the Iraqis will see more Americans rebuilding their towns, serving their children etc. They will see the goodness of our troops.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    The photos from Abu Ghraib gave the terrorists a moral victory they could never have achieved on their own. While the folks involved in that sordid affair are in no way representative of our armed forces, they don't need to be. Now, to the Muslim mind and especially to the radical fundamantalist Muslim all Americans are degenerates and perverts. What moral superiority we had has been lost, and to their eyes, America is no better than a rogue state.

    America's credibility in the Middle East took a body blow when Dubbyuh gave Ariel Sharon carte blanche to do what he wanted to in Gaza and the West Bank. The events that transpired at Abu Ghraib delivered the KO to US credibility. And I think we shall find that those events have their genesis higher up the chain of command than many here would like to believe.


    Congratulations Bully, you've written yourself into anti-Semite history.
     
  6. pegwinn
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    pegwinn Top of the Food Chain

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    Since the Berg Killing I no longer care about credibility. So long as we track down an punish the people who perpetrate terrorism, I don't care who likes us or not.

    Instead of ranting here, read the other posts I've written since the Berg Killing. I guess the it's true. If you want to slaughter a pig properly you must get into the mud.
     
  7. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I seriously have to question how the terrorists won a moral victory with this prison problem. I mean they turned around and slaughtered someone which took the entire focus off the prison and onto their more grevious atrocities. yeah thats brilliant. if they wanted a victory with the prison thing they should have played up the out rage. instead they do something worse and take attention away. We are dealing with frickin geniuses here.
     
  8. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    UBL said that America was an easy target and he is so right. Pick a country that divided against itself and half of them will assist the enemy. and what is this shit that gets thrown around--" I support our troops but disagree with the President" The president is the commander of these troops. I dare you to go tell our troops that thier commmader is full of shit. What a fucking wussy way to lie your way to patriotism. Mcarthur was so right to condemn having polticians determin how a war is fought
     
  9. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    Nicely put!
     
  10. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    Yeah, McArthur was right about politicians and war....Look at what the politicians have done with this one. And as far as the troops thinking their commander is full of shit, well every soldier, sailor, airman and marine thinks most anyone above E-7 is full of shit.
     

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