America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'

[PoliticalChic]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

What was the 30 year war about? Hint it was between catholics and protestants

the French Revolution.... the American Revolution....


Can't you read???

 

[Derideo_Te]

But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts

Since God does not exist you just proved that all morality is opinion.

Great job, PoliticalSpice.

Oh, and yes, your rebuttal must include absolute indisputable evidence that your God exists otherwise you will just be tacitly admitting that I am right.

Have a nice Sunday.

Nah...you just re-established that you're a moron.

Ironic!

Thanks for tacitly admitting that your God does not exist.

Have a nice day.

Any day where I get to expose what a moron you are is a nice day....so....

...I did.

Irony squared!

Keep that hole of yours ever deeper.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It had nothing to do with the Church of England? That controlled the Monarchy?

Nope!

The Monarchy controls the Church of England.

 

[Moonglow]

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

What was the 30 year war about? Hint it was between catholics and protestants

the French Revolution.... the American Revolution....


Can't you read???

Which came first? or is it Pugachev's rebellion? Maybe Spartacus???

 

[hortysir]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

Assume that you are a cave man and you worked all day long on making yourself a new spear. Someone bigger and stronger than you decides they want your spear so they just take it away from you. Is that good or evil as far as you are concerned?

Where does your God figure into how you arrived at your decision?

 

[hortysir]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

Assume that you are a cave man and you worked all day long on making yourself a new spear. Someone bigger and stronger than you decides they want your spear so they just take it away from you. Is that good or evil as far as you are concerned?

Where does your God figure into how you arrived at your decision?

So it's just an electrical and/or chemical reaction in our brain that occurred by happenstance and not placed there through creation?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

Assume that you are a cave man and you worked all day long on making yourself a new spear. Someone bigger and stronger than you decides they want your spear so they just take it away from you. Is that good or evil as far as you are concerned?

Where does your God figure into how you arrived at your decision?

So it's just an electrical and/or chemical reaction in our brain that occurred by happenstance and not placed there through creation?

Your question assumes the existence of a creator. The onus is on you to prove that a creator exists before your question can have any validity.

Interesting to note that you didn't actually answer either of my questions.

Why was that?

 

[hortysir]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

Assume that you are a cave man and you worked all day long on making yourself a new spear. Someone bigger and stronger than you decides they want your spear so they just take it away from you. Is that good or evil as far as you are concerned?

Where does your God figure into how you arrived at your decision?

So it's just an electrical and/or chemical reaction in our brain that occurred by happenstance and not placed there through creation?

Your question assumes the existence of a creator. The onus is on you to prove that a creator exists before your question can have any validity.

Interesting to note that you didn't actually answer either of my questions.

Why was that?

Because it was straw.
I can't assume to be a cave man or presume to know how he would think.

 

[hortysir]

IMO the "instinct" to think something is wrong would have to be placed there

 

[Derideo_Te]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

Without guidance from the Holy Spirit or God how do you propose mere mortal man concluded what is good or evil?

Assume that you are a cave man and you worked all day long on making yourself a new spear. Someone bigger and stronger than you decides they want your spear so they just take it away from you. Is that good or evil as far as you are concerned?

Where does your God figure into how you arrived at your decision?

So it's just an electrical and/or chemical reaction in our brain that occurred by happenstance and not placed there through creation?

Your question assumes the existence of a creator. The onus is on you to prove that a creator exists before your question can have any validity.

Interesting to note that you didn't actually answer either of my questions.

Why was that?

Because it was straw.
I can't assume to be a cave man or presume to know how he would think.

Deflection because you cannot defend your specious position.

You could just as easily have spent all day working on a spreadsheet and your boss took credit for it. The concept is simple enough for anyone to grasp. You deflected because it exposed the fallacy of your claim.

Thanks for tacitly admitting that you cannot address the questions honestly.

 

[Agit8r]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

Then why did some of the founders seek to de-Christianize their states? Most successfully it was done in Virginia by Jefferson and Madison, only to be partially rolled back decades later.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

Then why did some of the founders seek to de-Christianize their states? Most successfully it was done in Virginia by Jefferson and Madison, only to be partially rolled back decades later.

1. What the heck does your latest post have to do with the fact that the French Revolution was anti-Christian, and anti-religion?

2. What the heck does it have to do with this:
The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

a. orthodox Trinitarian Christians= Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.” (Coulter)

3. "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity. ...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." - Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, June 28th, 1813, from Quincy. The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The
Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams, edited by Lester J. Cappon,
1988, the University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC, pp. 338-340.

 

[Agit8r]

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

Then why did some of the founders seek to de-Christianize their states? Most successfully it was done in Virginia by Jefferson and Madison, only to be partially rolled back decades later.

1. What the heck does your latest post have to do with the fact that the French Revolution was anti-Christian, and anti-religion?

2. What the heck does it have to do with this:
The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

a. orthodox Trinitarian Christians= Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.” (Coulter)

3. "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity. ...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." - Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, June 28th, 1813, from Quincy. The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The
Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams, edited by Lester J. Cappon,
1988, the University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC, pp. 338-340.

David Limbaugh is an entertainer, like his brother. You should consult something by a historian, or read a collection of their own writings, before regurgitating some entertainer's talking points.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As explained in the OP, a secular- godless- society has no moral facts.

The result is that it is impossible to explain why certain things are wrong, others, right.
Such statements become merely opinion.


"Stanford University looks into allegations of cheating by students
... "an unusually high number of troubling allegations of academic dishonesty'' reported to the school's Office of Community Standards at the end of the quarter.

The allegations follow incidents of academic cheating at other top-ranked U.S. colleges."
Stanford University looks into allegations of cheating by students - San Jose Mercury News

 

[Gadawg73]

I was once summoned into the offices of "Mouth of the South" Ted Turner at the old WTBS station off of North Avenue, Atlanta, Georgia. "Christianity is for losers" headline of a business journal that had advertising from one of his competitors with his mug on the cover was framed on his wall. Teddy Ball Game noticed me looking at it and went into a long bit about how "Jesus Freaks" were going to take over the Republican Party one day and showed me another pic of him when he said if he ever met Polish Pope John Paul he would tell him his best Polock jokes. Religion taken too seriously is the problem. Great minds figure that out, BS artists and televangelists rely on emotion.

 

[LOki]

As explained in the OP, a secular- godless- society has no moral facts.

The result is that it is impossible to explain why certain things are wrong, others, right.
Such statements become merely opinion.

This conclusion is necessarily true only for superstitious/religious societies.

For obvious reasons.

 

[Derideo_Te]

As explained in the OP, a secular- godless- society has no moral facts.

The result is that it is impossible to explain why certain things are wrong, others, right.
Such statements become merely opinion.

This conclusion is necessarily true only for superstitious/religious societies.

For obvious reasons.

That bogus "conclusion" of the OP is based upon her own biased theist ignorance.

The facts prove that children raised in "secular-godless" homes are no less moral than those raised in devout theist homes.

 

[Esmeralda]

As explained in the OP, a secular- godless- society has no moral facts.

The result is that it is impossible to explain why certain things are wrong, others, right.
Such statements become merely opinion.

This conclusion is necessarily true only for superstitious/religious societies.

For obvious reasons.

That bogus "conclusion" of the OP is based upon her own biased theist ignorance.

The facts prove that children raised in "secular-godless" homes are no less moral than those raised in devout theist homes.

This is so true. I have many friends who are not religious but who are thoughtful, educated, decent people and their children are the most well behaved, self controlled, focused, nice kids I meet, and I deal with young people a lot as part of my vocation. I have been very impressed with how my 'secular' friends have raised kids--in calm, balanced homes--kids who are confident in themselves, good students, have positive attitudes about life, etc.

You do not need 'the fear of God' in order to raise good children. In fact, it is very often detrimental.

 

[Esmeralda]

I was once summoned into the offices of "Mouth of the South" Ted Turner at the old WTBS station off of North Avenue, Atlanta, Georgia. "Christianity is for losers" headline of a business journal that had advertising from one of his competitors with his mug on the cover was framed on his wall. Teddy Ball Game noticed me looking at it and went into a long bit about how "Jesus Freaks" were going to take over the Republican Party one day and showed me another pic of him when he said if he ever met Polish Pope John Paul he would tell him his best Polock jokes. Religion taken too seriously is the problem. Great minds figure that out, BS artists and televangelists rely on emotion.

He was certainly right about "Jesus Freaks" taking over the Republican Party.