America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'

PoliticalChic

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Oct 6, 2008
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1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.




b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
 
How come its always the so-called "christians" who say, that without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong?

Are you nutters really only one Sunday school session away from being mass murderers?
 
1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.





b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
Tooooooooo long. Muslims believe in moral facts too
 
Could be a good topic...regretfully, I treat PChic's posts like Emily posts...I read the first sentence, start to glaze over and then feel the need to relieve myself. Could be a gem of a post...too bad she has to write a boring novella.
 
How come its always the so-called "christians" who say, that without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong?

Are you nutters really only one Sunday school session away from being mass murderers?



Now pay attention.

No one says "without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong."

As with government schooling, your limited exposure to what passes for education, it seems that this OP will have to be given to you in small doses, dumbed down, and fed as the Cliff Notes version.

OK....


Anyone can be a good person, religious or not....
...in fact, the saying goes 'Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car'.....

....and, one can certainly be a good pagan.


But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion.
 
How come its always the so-called "christians" who say, that without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong?

Are you nutters really only one Sunday school session away from being mass murderers?



Now pay attention.

No one says "without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong."

As with government schooling, your limited exposure to what passes for education, it seems that this OP will have to be given to you in small doses, dumbed down, and fed as the Cliff Notes version.

OK....


Anyone can be a good person, religious or not....
...in fact, the saying goes 'Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car'.....

....and, one can certainly be a good pagan.


But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion.
Did you just watch God's Not Dead or something?
 
1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.





b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
Tooooooooo long. Muslims believe in moral facts too

1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.





b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
Tooooooooo long. Muslims believe in moral facts too


1. I'm working with a definition of God that does not include the slaughter of those who fail to agree with you.
You can understand that distinction, can't you?


2. "Tooooooooo long."
Take your A.D.D. meds and pay attention. I've only just begun.
 
Could be a good topic...regretfully, I treat PChic's posts like Emily posts...I read the first sentence, start to glaze over and then feel the need to relieve myself. Could be a gem of a post...too bad she has to write a boring novella.


See....the same problem you had in school.


Now buckle down.....this is only the first of several panels....and it is a good topic.

Stay with it.
 
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.
 
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.
Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?
 
How come its always the so-called "christians" who say, that without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong?

Are you nutters really only one Sunday school session away from being mass murderers?



Now pay attention.

No one says "without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong."

As with government schooling, your limited exposure to what passes for education, it seems that this OP will have to be given to you in small doses, dumbed down, and fed as the Cliff Notes version.

OK....


Anyone can be a good person, religious or not....
...in fact, the saying goes 'Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car'.....

....and, one can certainly be a good pagan.


But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion.
Did you just watch God's Not Dead or something?


So...you were fibbing when you said you read the beginning.....

No, I read the NYTimes article...and I will present it, along with my annotations.
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.



Conversation????

No....I'm merely attempting to educate you.

Seems my seeds of wisdom have fallen on stony ground.



You had that same comment on all of your report cards, huh?
 
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.
Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?


He's gonna miss your point there, Mr. H.


But that was a great summary of the OP.
 
How come its always the so-called "christians" who say, that without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong?

Are you nutters really only one Sunday school session away from being mass murderers?



Now pay attention.

No one says "without their "god"/religion/bible that they would have no morals or ethics, no sense of right and wrong."

As with government schooling, your limited exposure to what passes for education, it seems that this OP will have to be given to you in small doses, dumbed down, and fed as the Cliff Notes version.

OK....


Anyone can be a good person, religious or not....
...in fact, the saying goes 'Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car'.....

....and, one can certainly be a good pagan.


But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion.
Did you just watch God's Not Dead or something?




So...you were fibbing when you said you read the beginning.....

No, I read the NYTimes article...and I will present it, along with my annotations.
 
1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.





b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
Tooooooooo long. Muslims believe in moral facts too

1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0




2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that itā€™s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students donā€™t believe in moral facts."




4. While raising an excellent point, our philosopher misses the brass ring, here: "What I didnā€™t know was where this attitude came from. Given the presence of moral relativism in some academic circles, some people might naturally assume that philosophers themselves are to blame."



5.He may not know the provenance.....but I know where the view originates. The proximate roots of this view can be traced to the anthropologist Franz Boas, who, in an effort to study exotic cultures without prejudice, found it useful to take the position that no culture is superior to any other. Thus was born the idea of cultural relativity.

The idea spread like wildfire through the universities, catapulted by the radical impetus of the sixties. ready and willing to reject "the universality of Western norms and principles."
Bawer, "The Victim's Revolution"

a. The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.
Without the concept of God who sets the rules of morality.....every moral fact is no more than an opinion.





b. "Cultural relativism is the principle that an individual human's beliefs and activities should be understood by others in terms of that individual's own culture. This principle was established as axiomatic in anthropological research by Franz Boas in the first few decades of the 20th century and later popularized by his students. Boas first articulated the idea in 1887:

"...civilization is not something absolute, but ... is relative, and ... our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes."[1] ....
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...elativism.html




6. Our philosopher seems shocked to find that the Enlightenment ideas, those of David Hume, have been accepted, wholesale, in society.
" When I went to visit my sonā€™s second grade open house, I found a troubling pair of signs hanging over the bulletin board. They read:

Fact: Something that is true about a subject and can be tested or proven.

Opinion: What someone thinks, feels, or believes."

You can see where this leaves 'God' or 'religion.'




7. In the West, the dichotomy between empirical truth and morality, or values, began with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, impressive as it was, so much so that many thinkers elevated empirical science to the sole source of truth.

a. Empiricism is the doctrine that all knowledge is derived from the senses: what we see, hear, hold, weigh, and measure. Where, then do we find moral truths? Clearly, under such a definition, values and morals could not be truths, but simply emotions, feelings.

b. Empiricist philosopher Hume reasoned this way: if knowledge is based on sensations, then morality, too, must come from sensations, i.e. pain or pleasure, or, as he put it, a matter of ā€˜taste and sentiment,ā€ Hume claims then, that moral distinctions are not derived from reason but rather from sentiment.
Hume's Moral Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)



This view reduces morality to personal taste: ā€œWhatever works for you.ā€
Tooooooooo long. Muslims believe in moral facts too


1. I'm working with a definition of God that does not include the slaughter of those who fail to agree with you.
You can understand that distinction, can't you?


2. "Tooooooooo long."
Take your A.D.D. meds and pay attention. I've only just begun.
What reasons do you believe in god? And why waste your time on something that probably doesnt exist and matter?

OK so you believe in god. Now what? Did you come up with a cure for cancer? Does belief make you a better person? No? Then why bother?

Most likely it just makes you feel better about yourself. Cognitive dissonance and ignorant bliss. Stop it.
 
Could be a good topic...regretfully, I treat PChic's posts like Emily posts...I read the first sentence, start to glaze over and then feel the need to relieve myself. Could be a gem of a post...too bad she has to write a boring novella.


Agree ... Does anyone actually read PC, Flanders, Emily or that Spetch freak?

"Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?"


Huh?

"Conversation????

No....I'm merely attempting to educate you."


That pretty much sums it up.

She actually believes she is an authority on "god's authority" and will now wander and meander around, not making much sense but telling us that we're stupid for not getting her weird point of view.

Her knowledge does not compare with her ego.
 
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.
Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?
Our society says its wrong. Did you really need to read thou shall not murder to know its wrong?
 
1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Donā€™t Think There Are Moral Facts."

Well, the first thing you did wrong was listen to a mutant like Dennis Prager... but let's move on.

2. Most children who weren't brought up in a religious household, with a clear recognition of God, fail to recognize the difference between moral facts, and opinions.

While the author of the article bemoans, as do most of us, that"the overwhelming majority of college freshmen in their classrooms view moral claims as mere opinions that are not true or are true only relative to a culture" he fails to grasp the reason for this situation..

Bullshit. I've known religious people who were the most backstabbing pieces of shit I've ever met in my my life. I've known atheists I'd trust with my life.

The real problem is that most kids look at religious folks with a stick up their ass about sex, and just find their morals laughable.
 
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
Albert Einstein
 
"But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts.....only opinions...and any opinion can be countered with another opinion."

Oh, so that makes me the mass murderer.

You're welcome to your idiotic opinions but don't pretend you're interested in a conversation. Every single one of your posts is loaded with your usual insults.

This is just SSDD from our resident home schooled, fundie nutter.
Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?
Our society says its wrong. Did you really need to read thou shall not murder to know its wrong?



That's funny....the way you dispute your own post.

Didn't you post this: "Muslims believe in moral facts too."



I knew this would happen when they stopped teaching logic.
 

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