America..a Failed State?

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

I thought this was the clean debate zone??? You cannot make a point without accusing me of being on drugs? For the record, I do not have a "figurehead." This isn't too clean of a discussion, but I digress.

Donald Trump is a DEMOCRAT. He started out as a D; his best friends have a D beside their name and his ability to get what used to be constitutionalists and the right to co-opt the talking points of the far left is amazing. There are no real leaders on the left or the right; D or R; conservative or liberal. The average politician knows less about the history of this country or its Constitution than I know about nuclear physics. Joe Biden looks into a camera and threatened the American people. If that is what you want for a president, then you have far more problems than we can solve on a discussion board.

Democrats in general have made it plain that they are opposed to every foundational principle upon which the Republic rests. The Republicans, who once said they were for limited government, keep getting snookered by the Democrats and end up doing more damage to the Constitution by accident than the Democrats are able to accomplish on purpose. Trump comes along as an anomaly. He is a Democrat, a globalist (with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch as in Council on Foreign Relations), and a man who shows no kind of humility. I'm embarrassed that he has a Director of Infectious Diseases telling the American people to shelter in place, stay at home, do social distancing, etc. and then Trump advocates that people ignore the advice and protest so that the governors will open the states back up so we don't sink economically. I don't like the man because he is the most anti-gun president in the history on the United States and he does not understand the Constitution NOR does he give a rip about it.

With both sides being unfit to lead, our only option is to vote for the lesser of two evils. Putting Biden in as president would mean that there are no longer any pretenses about where America is in terms of government. Biden would signal the end of the Republic and the principles our forefathers fought, bled and died for. There's nothing melodramatic about it. As a free nation, America is on life support. America has more people in prison than any country on this planet; we have more drug addicts than any other nation - Americans consuming over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply for starters. For every drug addict in a mental health facility you have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. And now, we are leading the world in Covid 19 related deaths. Putting a senile wannabe dictator with no love of Liberty in the White House, especially during these times, would be the end of America. Vote for Trump. Buy America some time and then try finding some leadership that can get us back to moral, physical, and economic sanity.

Well, got to admit this was a much better post the threatening civil war. Knew you were capable of it. Many good points, as an independent, I see many truths. Both sides are pretty screwed up and have gotten worse during the last 3 to 11 years. They simply quit talking to each other as professionals, partly out of fear of being called Rino or Dino and getting primaried for trying to work together to solve problems and partly out of being vilified instead of disagreed with on any issue what so ever. The two parties would not agree it was a sunny day unless each had a majority looking out the window, and attempt to incite the populace to hate the other side for it.

The squeakiest wheel is supposed to get the grease. I this case the most loudmouthed squeakiest Democrats have got the Republicans (if there are any left) trying to grease the whole party for the sins of the loudmouth few. Not to say that there isn't a far left group fringe of idiots that have wet dreams of a socialist utopia, but the majority of the Democrats are relatively normal Americans that grew up when history was taught better and hold the constitution and beliefs of the founding fathers as you or I. What either of the two parties (if there are two parties) is not plain, by any means. Trump is just a carnival barker, and a good one. You are absolutely correct, he spent most of his life as a democrat, only changing because they would not give him a chance, He and they would have been equally dangerous, maybe more if they had.

How he came to still put any trust in Republican CDC Director (appointed by him in March of 2018) when the man backed Dr Fauci and Birx, just because he did not want everybody to get sick of Covid-19 before there was a cure or treatment, I do not know. He usually dump (even Republicans he appoints) people that either give him information he doesn't like on general principal or thinks he knows more (which us almost never the case) than they do. I just thank God he did finally listen, as I agree with social distancing. The reason for the shutdown is human nature. If you are working a job and it is you only source of income, you might be inclined to work sick and spread the disease to all you co-worker or become sickened and spread it after getting it from them, rather than forgo eating and paying your bills. The unrestricted spread of the disease had to be checked. Bitter medicine for the economy and many workers, but without a cure, or vaccine to prevent a disease that spreads as easily as this one or another way to get the separation necessary slow the spread, it was absolutely necessary.

I disagree about Biden. Definitely not senile. I have seen senility, dementia and even alzheimers up close. He ain't it. He has worked in the Senate for many years and has a history of working across the aisle if necessary, without fear of being primaried by his own party. He is no socialist and believes in the constitution far more the the man in office now. He is not the be all to end all, but he is better than the man we got and has much better character, hasn't taken multiple bankruptcies, Fkd around on three different wives, and lied about even knowing them or paying 2 of them off to keep them quiet long enough to get elected. He will not stand shoulder to shoulder with Putin against the information and judgement of 17 of our security and intelligence agency as will as intell committees in both houses of Congress. He won't brag of love letters from dictators or publicly support strongman totalitarian regimes and rulers. He never has before and is unlikely to start now, unlike our present president. who has done so since before election and continued while in office. Yes, I consider your denunciation of Biden melodramatic. The United State of America has a lot of history left, base on the writings of our founding fathers and the U.S. Constitution. Hopefully Joe Biden will take us a step back toward Democrats and Republicans, elected to office to work together fpr the common good, solving the problems of our country.
There now. That wasn't too rough for the Clean Debate Zone, was it?

When Biden looked into a camera and threatened those that disagree with him, he proved he was unfit for public office.



I don't know what is acceptable for the CDZ. I think if I counter-punched in the same spirit, someone would be there to ban me or at least remove my response.

You have lived through 3 years and 2 months of trump and you think that is a dis qualifier? You are indeed a drama queen, honey.

There is no "drama" in it snowflake. It's reality. You know what you have in Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption. The legislative branch knows how to handle the egotist; they might not know what to do with a senile prog that hates our values.

 

[candycorn]

Sure..you're right, for the most part. Here's the thing..first, I think, by and large, that our response to this virus is going to be a success. all numbers indicate that flattening the curve has worked..and cases are below projections. Good news. There will be fresh outbreaks for months...bad news. Yes we need testing..and lots of it. It's coming.
Recovery is going to be long..and painful.

I am shaking my head here, Eye. Really. It is not, and will not be, a success. The death count and the harrowing economic damage already saw to that, and it's far from over.

Social distancing has worked. Shutting it down has worked.

Trump is undermining all that, blabbing about a restart and egging on protesters, and Kemp - that downright malign moron - and others are feeling the pressure, opening up prematurely.

The danger with this virus is, when you see the tip of the iceberg, it's nigh on too late.

For a recovery, testing needs to be ramped up to three to five times the current rate. IT IS NOT HAPPENING.

You need 100 to 300k people to do contract tracing. These folks need to be employed, equipped, and trained. IT IS NOT HAPPENING. If you send them out untrained, you risk sending tens of thousands of hyperspreaders all over the country. Answer me this, Eye: You trust Trump to get this right?

Success? Only if wishes could make it happen.

I also doubt that widespread testing is coming as EvilEyeFleegle says. I would be shocked if we end up testing 20% of the population by years end. We’re at less than 2% now.

I know it’s assuming the worst in others but what has the blob done to make anyone think otherwise but here are the political realities: no testing means no new cases outside of self presenters. No new cases is a political winner. More testing means more new cases which exposes more weakness in our supply chains and is a political loser. That is the only reason the right wing resists more testing being done.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

Quite the disinformation artist you try to be with semantics. If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer took over the whole political scene and removed the Republicans from public office, ultimately the Democrats would be over-taken by another party. THEN, that party would be considered the liberals and progs.

The bottom line is, the Democrats hate the foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. Right now the Ds and the Rs are actually the same... just one hand washing the other.

The bottom line...is that you believe the above--and your investment in your belief is what i believe the problem to be. Democrats don't hate the principles on which our country rests...they see them differently...and that..is the crux of it. Your demonization of your opposition makes you a tool.....your political alignment is irrelevant.

It is possible to oppose without demonization or hatred---just not as fun.....

Oh semantics..meanings and nuance are important to me as tools for communication. Jefferson was a Radical....As was Patrick Henry...Thomas Paine...They all believed in the Rights of Man with a ferver. You'd be calling them commies today though. Party names change..but the ideologies are undying.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

Quite the disinformation artist you try to be with semantics. If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer took over the whole political scene and removed the Republicans from public office, ultimately the Democrats would be over-taken by another party. THEN, that party would be considered the liberals and progs.

The bottom line is, the Democrats hate the foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. Right now the Ds and the Rs are actually the same... just one hand washing the other.

The bottom line...is that you believe the above--and your investment in your belief is what i believe the problem to be. Democrats don't hate the principles on which our country rests...they see them differently...and that..is the crux of it. Your demonization of your opposition makes you a tool.....your political alignment is irrelevant.

It is possible to oppose without demonization or hatred---just not as fun.....

Oh semantics..meanings and nuance are important to me as tools for communication. Jefferson was a Radical....As was Patrick Henry...Thomas Paine...They all believed in the Rights of Man with a ferver. You'd be calling them commies today though. Party names change..but the ideologies are undying.

It appears you are not very well read. Democrats take a giant dump on most of the Constitution. That is one reason socialist Bernie found a home among like minded kindred spirits. I'm not demonizing anyone. Just pointing out the obvious. It's equally obvious that the Dems played what used to be constitutionalists and conservatives so that they are, as it would be biblically referred to, twofold more the children of Hell than the Devil himself. No matter how you slice it, dice it, cut it or spin it, the Ds and the Rs are one hand washing the other.

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

Quite the disinformation artist you try to be with semantics. If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer took over the whole political scene and removed the Republicans from public office, ultimately the Democrats would be over-taken by another party. THEN, that party would be considered the liberals and progs.

The bottom line is, the Democrats hate the foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. Right now the Ds and the Rs are actually the same... just one hand washing the other.

Thanks for the semantics compliment. Never too debate, only speech. You should have head my 10 minutes on my trip through a 6 story, 3 wing whore house in downtown Frankfurt, Germany known as the Marble Palace, back in the day. I did not know there were female high schools seniors taking that college class for advanced credit. They got advanced, and they got an education on the sights, sounds, aromas, small talk and general ambiance of that legal establishment. Possibly you would have preferred my short speech, in detail on the M72A2 LAW, Light Anti-tank Weapon, it's deployment, operation, implementation, sighting, stadia sight ranging/aiming, etc. But, I digress. It was probably due to the four glasses of wine, with my wife, as we sat around the fire pit tonight listening to crackle, toasting dogs, talking and not worry about politics or Coronavirs or anything for a couple of hours.

You think Chuck and Nancy are going to take over the political scene? Remove the republicans from office? Where did you go to school? For that matter, what country did yougo to school in? Doesn't sound like this country or else you failed American History and Civics. Hopefully I didn't discuss your homeland while giving a threat briefing. The Democrats very well may be taken over by another party, based on American History, as many parties have come and gone. Besides, the republican party being taken over, just back in 2016 is a good example. I miss them.
Democrats in general do not hate the foundation principles of this republic. They certainly do not hate them as much as Donnie Trump.
Good night young Maga-man. You can play on the internet tomorrow.

 

[Olde Europe]

The bottom line...is that you believe the above--and your investment in your belief is what i believe the problem to be. Democrats don't hate the principles on which our country rests...they see them differently...and that..is the crux of it. Your demonization of your opposition makes you a tool.....your political alignment is irrelevant.

It is possible to oppose without demonization or hatred---just not as fun.....

Oh semantics..meanings and nuance are important to me as tools for communication. Jefferson was a Radical....As was Patrick Henry...Thomas Paine...They all believed in the Rights of Man with a ferver. You'd be calling them commies today though. Party names change..but the ideologies are undying.

You know, Eye, perhaps it'd be helpful if you gave a short list of the foundational principles you had in mind while writing the above, and some hints as to why you believe the factions "see them differently". For I believe those who are so fond of referring to "principles", without clarification, are mostly hiding an ideological agenda, or try to "justify" their demonization of the respective Other based on the flimsiest of evidence, if any.

That said, what exactly is a "failed state"?

Oh, and BTW, you all need to learn to cut back the quote tree. There is no point quoting an entire encyclopedia of prior posts not of any relevance to a meandering topic that has long moved on.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The bottom line...is that you believe the above--and your investment in your belief is what i believe the problem to be. Democrats don't hate the principles on which our country rests...they see them differently...and that..is the crux of it. Your demonization of your opposition makes you a tool.....your political alignment is irrelevant.

It is possible to oppose without demonization or hatred---just not as fun.....

Oh semantics..meanings and nuance are important to me as tools for communication. Jefferson was a Radical....As was Patrick Henry...Thomas Paine...They all believed in the Rights of Man with a ferver. You'd be calling them commies today though. Party names change..but the ideologies are undying.

You know, Eye, perhaps it'd be helpful if you gave a short list of the foundational principles you had in mind while writing the above, and some hints as to why you believe the factions "see them differently". For I believe those who are so fond of referring to "principles", without clarification, are mostly hiding an ideological agenda, or try to "justify" their demonization of the respective Other based on the flimsiest of evidence, if any.

That said, what exactly is a "failed state"?

Oh, and BTW, you all need to learn to cut back the quote tree. There is no point quoting an entire encyclopedia of prior posts not of any relevance to a meandering topic that has long moved on.

Well...I was responding to another post...as to 'foundational principles' ..seems straightforward enough...Preamble stuff..Bill of Rights. But my point was simply the two sides in our culture wars view..well, almost everything--differently. Take any of the 'litmus test' issues--and ask about the Constitutional take on them..it can be, sometimes, as though there are two different documents. Gun rights, Abortion Rights, Civil Rights, Taxation, Religious Rights, 1st amendment rights..and on...and on...and on.
Which is well and good..except partisans are demonizing the other side..denying their 'Americanness'--to make up a word.

I, as you know, see that as the existential threat we all face. The Balkanization of the US along Rural/Urban lines--extreme inequities of wealth becoming more extreme...leading to scarcities so profound that forced migration and war become the only answer. If you are a poor red state..and you cannot take care of your population base..what are your options? If you are a Blue state the needs the water from 8 states to survive..what do you do when the tap is turned off?

I once wrote that civil war never bothered me..because happy, well fed people don't rebel.....I'm not so sure that that is going to be the case..in 18 months.

 

[Rambunctious]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The bottom line...is that you believe the above--and your investment in your belief is what i believe the problem to be. Democrats don't hate the principles on which our country rests...they see them differently...and that..is the crux of it. Your demonization of your opposition makes you a tool.....your political alignment is irrelevant.

It is possible to oppose without demonization or hatred---just not as fun.....

Oh semantics..meanings and nuance are important to me as tools for communication. Jefferson was a Radical....As was Patrick Henry...Thomas Paine...They all believed in the Rights of Man with a ferver. You'd be calling them commies today though. Party names change..but the ideologies are undying.

You know, Eye, perhaps it'd be helpful if you gave a short list of the foundational principles you had in mind while writing the above, and some hints as to why you believe the factions "see them differently". For I believe those who are so fond of referring to "principles", without clarification, are mostly hiding an ideological agenda, or try to "justify" their demonization of the respective Other based on the flimsiest of evidence, if any.

That said, what exactly is a "failed state"?

Oh, and BTW, you all need to learn to cut back the quote tree. There is no point quoting an entire encyclopedia of prior posts not of any relevance to a meandering topic that has long moved on.

Well...I was responding to another post...as to 'foundational principles' ..seems straightforward enough...Preamble stuff..Bill of Rights. But my point was simply the two sides in our culture wars view..well, almost everything--differently. Take any of the 'litmus test' issues--and ask about the Constitutional take on them..it can be, sometimes, as though there are two different documents. Gun rights, Abortion Rights, Civil Rights, Taxation, Religious Rights, 1st amendment rights..and on...and on...and on.
Which is well and good..except partisans are demonizing the other side..denying their 'Americanness'--to make up a word.

I, as you know, see that as the existential threat we all face. The Balkanization of the US along Rural/Urban lines--extreme inequities of wealth becoming more extreme...leading to scarcities so profound that forced migration and war become the only answer. If you are a poor red state..and you cannot take care of your population base..what are your options? If you are a Blue state the needs the water from 8 states to survive..what do you do when the tap is turned off?

I once wrote that civil war never bothered me..because happy, well fed people don't rebel.....I'm not so sure that that is going to be the case..in 18 months.

Perhaps we are as H.G. Wells predicted dividing into separate species, although in our case the Democrat Morlocks are the useless, indolent one.

Just a thought.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Whether "their money" or not (arguable), giving nearly 2 billion dollars in cash to a nation sworn to destroy us is clearly treasonous.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Go then...get the hell out of here if we are so broken...we will be fine without seditious scum like you....this is a time that we should be coming together but all you libs can do is try and separate us with hate posts....and phony links....

this may surprise you..but you don't get to decide...and you might want to look up seditious..before you continue to make a fool outside of yourself...you're in the wrong forum.

this is an anti-hate thread..silly

Get back to where YOU belong.

Phony link..odd it seems to be working...perhaps you might address where it is incorrect?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Go then...get the hell out of here if we are so broken...we will be fine without seditious scum like you....this is a time that we should be coming together but all you libs can do is try and separate us with hate posts....and phony links....

this may surprise you..but you don't get to decide...and you might want to look up seditious..before you continue to make a fool outside of yourself...you're in the wrong forum.

Get back to where YOU belong.

I'm just offering you a way out of your misery....if you hate our country you can leave.....we would be better off without you....and you can take your snowflake friends with you....I hear there are cheap apartments in Wuhan for rent.....

You just can't help yourself..you do know this is the CDZ right? No flames or insults? Seems the only hate posts here..are yours!!

 

[Rambunctious]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Go then...get the hell out of here if we are so broken...we will be fine without seditious scum like you....this is a time that we should be coming together but all you libs can do is try and separate us with hate posts....and phony links....

this may surprise you..but you don't get to decide...and you might want to look up seditious..before you continue to make a fool outside of yourself...you're in the wrong forum.

Get back to where YOU belong.

I'm just offering you a way out of your misery....if you hate our country you can leave.....we would be better off without you....and you can take your snowflake friends with you....I hear there are cheap apartments in Wuhan for rent.....

You just can't help yourself..you do know this is the CDZ right? No flames or insults? Seems the only hate posts here..are yours!!

So you can hide behind the CDZ and attack my country?....screw that....

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Go then...get the hell out of here if we are so broken...we will be fine without seditious scum like you....this is a time that we should be coming together but all you libs can do is try and separate us with hate posts....and phony links....

this may surprise you..but you don't get to decide...and you might want to look up seditious..before you continue to make a fool outside of yourself...you're in the wrong forum.

Get back to where YOU belong.

I'm just offering you a way out of your misery....if you hate our country you can leave.....we would be better off without you....and you can take your snowflake friends with you....I hear there are cheap apartments in Wuhan for rent.....

You just can't help yourself..you do know this is the CDZ right? No flames or insults? Seems the only hate posts here..are yours!!

So you can hide behind the CDZ and attack my country?....screw that....

Our country...no attack...all in your mind..

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

Go then...get the hell out of here if we are so broken...we will be fine without seditious scum like you....this is a time that we should be coming together but all you libs can do is try and separate us with hate posts....and phony links....

this may surprise you..but you don't get to decide...and you might want to look up seditious..before you continue to make a fool outside of yourself...you're in the wrong forum.

Get back to where YOU belong.

I'm just offering you a way out of your misery....if you hate our country you can leave.....we would be better off without you....and you can take your snowflake friends with you....I hear there are cheap apartments in Wuhan for rent.....

You just can't help yourself..you do know this is the CDZ right? No flames or insults? Seems the only hate posts here..are yours!!

So you can hide behind the CDZ and attack my country?....screw that....

Our country...no attack...all in your mind..

You post about our nation being broken from a safe zone...cowardly action....IMO....

You mean..you actually read the article/ Impressed, I am! Whom does the article credit with the 'breaking'? What parallels does it draw with third world nations in its Precis of the early days of the pandemic?

That's not an attack...just because you don't like the facts....as presented..does not make them less factual. Unless you can prove said fact wrong..with better facts.

I don't see you doing this...can you? this is the CDZ--you should bring some substance here--not lame political posturing.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

Quite the disinformation artist you try to be with semantics. If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer took over the whole political scene and removed the Republicans from public office, ultimately the Democrats would be over-taken by another party. THEN, that party would be considered the liberals and progs.

The bottom line is, the Democrats hate the foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. Right now the Ds and the Rs are actually the same... just one hand washing the other.

Thanks for the semantics compliment. Never too debate, only speech. You should have head my 10 minutes on my trip through a 6 story, 3 wing whore house in downtown Frankfurt, Germany known as the Marble Palace, back in the day. I did not know there were female high schools seniors taking that college class for advanced credit. They got advanced, and they got an education on the sights, sounds, aromas, small talk and general ambiance of that legal establishment. Possibly you would have preferred my short speech, in detail on the M72A2 LAW, Light Anti-tank Weapon, it's deployment, operation, implementation, sighting, stadia sight ranging/aiming, etc. But, I digress. It was probably due to the four glasses of wine, with my wife, as we sat around the fire pit tonight listening to crackle, toasting dogs, talking and not worry about politics or Coronavirs or anything for a couple of hours.

You think Chuck and Nancy are going to take over the political scene? Remove the republicans from office? Where did you go to school? For that matter, what country did yougo to school in? Doesn't sound like this country or else you failed American History and Civics. Hopefully I didn't discuss your homeland while giving a threat briefing. The Democrats very well may be taken over by another party, based on American History, as many parties have come and gone. Besides, the republican party being taken over, just back in 2016 is a good example. I miss them.
Democrats in general do not hate the foundation principles of this republic. They certainly do not hate them as much as Donnie Trump.
Good night young Maga-man. You can play on the internet tomorrow.

Do you realize that you've tried to demonize and ridicule me based upon purely IF scenarios. The only thing it appears that you excelled at was wine drinking. Reading is not your forte'. I do not think Nancy and Chuck could take over the country; do not advocate internal war and you aren't very intelligent to suggest that I implied anything of the sort. As for education, I'd bet you a few grand that I have more post secondary education than you have total education.

I believe that the Democrats hate the Constitution and Trump don't get a free ride. Trump was a Democrat before he ran for president; he is the most anti-gun president in the history of the United States - which means he doesn't know squat about the Bill of Rights.. and the trio of you, Trump, and Democrats make a wonderful threesome.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

But Obama WAS treasonous.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Even a treasonous president like Obama that did everything he could to cut our nation down to size couldn't break us....we are the greatest people on the planet...just ask all of the losers that want to be here....and how bad is America when the world wants to be American?...the OP is a clown show.....and needs to travel more outside of America so he can wake up....

I've gone through 7 passports in my lifetime..and served with the US Navy. The world doesn't want to be American..they just want our money and resource. A good portion of the world spits when they even say the word, American'. A lot of poor people...think that they can make it here..some do. Most of the world just wishes America would quit 'helping' them.

I love my country...but we have some serious issues going on...and this stupid culture war BS...like calling Obama treasonous--is the real problem.

But Obama WAS treasonous.

***sigh***

That is not the topic..even vaguely--of this thread. In fact, the topic is the dysfunction inherent in the factionlized bickering that's hurting our country.
thus, your post is yet another example of the inability of factionalists to think outside of their obsession!

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

As this thread is now been moved out of the CDZ....all may now feel free to resume business as normal....thinking hats off...and tinfoil ones on!