Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

[The Infidel]

Your complete inability to view soldiers in different shades based on their actions is the whole point of the problem here. When you think the soldiers who urinate on the corpses of the enemy are the best of the best, you denigrate the soldiers who act professionally and carry out missions with courage and character.

For example, you denigrate the soldiers who killed Osama Bin Laden by viewing the acts of the urinating soldiers as equal. Best of the best. Let me tell you, Seal Team Six would have way more discipline than to do that.

I will NOT judge those guys... and I say it again, I wouldnt have done it.
I think it was bad judgement, ESPECIALLY recording it, but I refuse to judge them.

Hey Infidel, it's obvious that you've never served because you fail to understand that the military is required to follow rules in combat as well as keep a higher standard.

Just because you didn't enlist, DOES NOT automatically raise everyone to a level that is above reproach. They broke the rules, they showed and incredible lack of discipline and maturity, as well as have brought disgrace to themselves and the U.S. Marine Corps.

As a 20 year veteran, I probably see things differently, because unlike you, I understand why those rules are there, and the purpose that they serve because it was drilled into me during annual seminars on Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.

These men broke the rules for both the Code of Conduct AND broke the Geneva Conventions by desecration of a corpse.

Factor in that this tape ended up getting released right around the time that the Taliban was ready to start peace talks with the U.S., and you can understand how badly these guys fucked up.

As far as being a felony? Dunno.........that would be for a General Courts Martial to decide, because if they are proven to violate the Conventions, that does qualify as a "felony" in the military.

So.............before supporting something as being okay, don't you think you should understand the rules they broke FIRST?

Notice that I didn't say anything bad about you, just that you really don't understand what you're supporting. I'm trying to be nice and turn over a new leaf.

ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.
And no, I didnt serve (I regret that too) thanks for your service btw.

Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I will NOT judge those guys... and I say it again, I wouldnt have done it.
I think it was bad judgement, ESPECIALLY recording it, but I refuse to judge them.

Hey Infidel, it's obvious that you've never served because you fail to understand that the military is required to follow rules in combat as well as keep a higher standard.

Just because you didn't enlist, DOES NOT automatically raise everyone to a level that is above reproach. They broke the rules, they showed and incredible lack of discipline and maturity, as well as have brought disgrace to themselves and the U.S. Marine Corps.

As a 20 year veteran, I probably see things differently, because unlike you, I understand why those rules are there, and the purpose that they serve because it was drilled into me during annual seminars on Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.

These men broke the rules for both the Code of Conduct AND broke the Geneva Conventions by desecration of a corpse.

Factor in that this tape ended up getting released right around the time that the Taliban was ready to start peace talks with the U.S., and you can understand how badly these guys fucked up.

As far as being a felony? Dunno.........that would be for a General Courts Martial to decide, because if they are proven to violate the Conventions, that does qualify as a "felony" in the military.

So.............before supporting something as being okay, don't you think you should understand the rules they broke FIRST?

Notice that I didn't say anything bad about you, just that you really don't understand what you're supporting. I'm trying to be nice and turn over a new leaf.

ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.
And no, I didnt serve (I regret that too) thanks for your service btw.

Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.

You're right.........we DO have the best military in the world, and to keep it that way, when dirtbags like these 4 Marines bring discredit upon themselves, the Corps, and this nation, the first thing we have to do is disavow them, punish them, and get rid of them.

I mean.........why should these 4 men be allowed to stay in, when Lt. Dan Cho got kicked out (after 17 years of distinguished service, as well as being a FOB who spoke Arabic fluently) for being gay?

Additionally, the timing for this couldn't have been worse, because when this surfaced, we were going to start peace negotiations with the Taliban.

I wish people would quit being so jingoistic about the military and actually look at what they did and the rules they broke so they'd quit cheering these idiots.

 

[The Infidel]

Additionally, the timing for this couldn't have been worse, because when this surfaced, we were going to start peace negotiations with the Taliban.

This was intentional (the photos released now).

Someone out there wants to sabotage it IMO.

On a side note... why are we negotiating with terrorists?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Additionally, the timing for this couldn't have been worse, because when this surfaced, we were going to start peace negotiations with the Taliban.

This was intentional (the photos released now).

Someone out there wants to sabotage it IMO.

On a side note... why are we negotiating with terrorists?

Um........trying to end the war in Afghanistan so the troops can finally come home ring a bell?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is that what I said?

You said, and I quote:

All's fair in war until the same happens to us, right?

If someone pisses on my dead body I will not care. In fact, if someone beheads my dead body and sticks it on a pike while driving around the city I won't care. Why should you?

You're essentially saying that if they do the same to us, we shouldn't care. And based on your previous statements in this thread and the other, you'd have no problem with our soldiers doing the same as they do. So yeah, that is essentially what you said. You said not to care if the same happened to you at the hands of the enemy.

I would care. It would be a barbaric act and completely deplorable and detestable. Same if our soldiers do it.

Exactly, if it happens to me I won't care, so why should you. Where does that say anything like what you said? You were trying to make it personally and I defused it. People in war are emotionally charged, and getting morally indignant about will just perpetuate the problem.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Additionally, the timing for this couldn't have been worse, because when this surfaced, we were going to start peace negotiations with the Taliban.

This was intentional (the photos released now).

Someone out there wants to sabotage it IMO.

On a side note... why are we negotiating with terrorists?

Um........trying to end the war in Afghanistan so the troops can finally come home ring a bell?

Why not just leave? Why officially hand power over to the organization we went over there to punish?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is that what I said?

You said, and I quote:

If someone pisses on my dead body I will not care. In fact, if someone beheads my dead body and sticks it on a pike while driving around the city I won't care. Why should you?

You're essentially saying that if they do the same to us, we shouldn't care. And based on your previous statements in this thread and the other, you'd have no problem with our soldiers doing the same as they do. So yeah, that is essentially what you said. You said not to care if the same happened to you at the hands of the enemy.

I would care. It would be a barbaric act and completely deplorable and detestable. Same if our soldiers do it.

Exactly, if it happens to me I won't care, so why should you. Where does that say anything like what you said? You were trying to make it personally and I defused it. People in war are emotionally charged, and getting morally indignant about will just perpetuate the problem.

Allowing stupid behavior like this and sweeping it under the rug will only undermine good order and discipline.

Try again.

 

[Truthseeker420]

When I served in the Navy my best experience was the people whom with I served. Some of the dumb stuff we did I don't know how we are the #1 military....





....all joking aside they were some of the best and brightest people in America and most would consider it their duty and the right thing to do to point out corrupt service members.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When I served in the Navy my best experience was the people whom with I served. Some of the dumb stuff we did I don't know how we are the #1 military....





....all joking aside they were some of the best and brightest people in America and most would consider it their duty and the right thing to do to point out corrupt service members.

If I would have caught anyone doing what these guys did, I'd have them reported as quickly as possible and placed under arrest and file charges.

Why? Because when I was in the military, it was our duty to look out for our shipmates, but also the reputation of the U.S. Navy and this country as well.

 

[Truthseeker420]

When I served in the Navy my best experience was the people whom with I served. Some of the dumb stuff we did I don't know how we are the #1 military....





....all joking aside they were some of the best and brightest people in America and most would consider it their duty and the right thing to do to point out corrupt service members.

If I would have caught anyone doing what these guys did, I'd have them reported as quickly as possible and placed under arrest and file charges.

Why? Because when I was in the military, it was our duty to look out for our shipmates, but also the reputation of the U.S. Navy and this country as well.

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When I served in the Navy my best experience was the people whom with I served. Some of the dumb stuff we did I don't know how we are the #1 military....





....all joking aside they were some of the best and brightest people in America and most would consider it their duty and the right thing to do to point out corrupt service members.

If I would have caught anyone doing what these guys did, I'd have them reported as quickly as possible and placed under arrest and file charges.

Why? Because when I was in the military, it was our duty to look out for our shipmates, but also the reputation of the U.S. Navy and this country as well.

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

 

[Truthseeker420]

If I would have caught anyone doing what these guys did, I'd have them reported as quickly as possible and placed under arrest and file charges.

Why? Because when I was in the military, it was our duty to look out for our shipmates, but also the reputation of the U.S. Navy and this country as well.

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

They gave us a dream sheet after graduation of where we wanted to be stationed and I put west or south and got Groton, CT I was stuck with the bubbleheads. There something not right about a guy that stays under the water for months.

 

[Ravi]

I guess you cannot read. He specifically said they should receive the maximum possible punishment under the UCMJ, and be forced to publicly apologize to the Corps and to the world. If you think that is letting them slide you are a fool.

Yeah, he did say that.

He also told everyone else to stfu. I've got news for him: we have freedom of speech in this country AND the military acts at OUR whim, not the other way around.

You stfu, West.

He told the people like you that have no idea what it means to be a soldier or Marine in combat to STFU. You just took the time to agree with ABS that West is wrong without bothering to point out that it is actually ABS, and you, who are dishonoring the military by not pointing out that we have been at war for over a decade, have had hundreds of thousands of troops in combat during that time, and that most of them have gone out of their way to exemplify a level of professional conduct that gives credit to the military, the country, and you yourself as a citizen.

Would you like me to provide examples of people who have spoken up in defense of the military by pointing this out who have been attacked by -people like you? II agree with West completely, you should shut the fuck up.

Most people don't need to be told that the Americans are good guys.

You, sadly, do.

I invite you, along with West, to go fuck yourself.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

They gave us a dream sheet after graduation of where we wanted to be stationed and I put west or south and got Groton, CT I was stuck with the bubbleheads. There something not right about a guy that stays under the water for months.

Never trusted those dream sheets or detailers either. As someone from Montana, I was hoping to get the West Coast, but ended up in NORVA.

Shit..........I had to use my GUARD III reenlistment on my last enlistment to make it as far west as Amarillo, and that was coming off of a duty station that was supposed to give me my choice of what I wanted (arduous overseas duty).

 

[Zoom]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

 

[Zoom]

If I would have caught anyone doing what these guys did, I'd have them reported as quickly as possible and placed under arrest and file charges.

Why? Because when I was in the military, it was our duty to look out for our shipmates, but also the reputation of the U.S. Navy and this country as well.

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

Good ol Meridian. The only place I personally saw a sign at a bar that said no blacks allowed. I could not believe it and this was the early 80's. Must have been ron paul territory. This was also the place where I saw or heard an asian woman at a barber shop with a souther accent. Cracked me up really.

 

[Dr Grump]

Going against the Geneva Conventions (desecration of a corpse) IS a courts martial punishable offense.

Try again QW..........you're a fucking 'tard who has no clue about the military.

IF they had beheaded the damn things I would say it is a felony offense, pissing on them isn't. Your self righteous outrage is repugnant.

Cool. Now you are trying to equate US soldiers with fundie muslims. That is whacky in any context, but coming from you, it's the norm...

 

[Truthseeker420]

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

They gave us a dream sheet after graduation of where we wanted to be stationed and I put west or south and got Groton, CT I was stuck with the bubbleheads. There something not right about a guy that stays under the water for months.

Never trusted those dream sheets or detailers either. As someone from Montana, I was hoping to get the West Coast, but ended up in NORVA.

Shit..........I had to use my GUARD III reenlistment on my last enlistment to make it as far west as Amarillo, and that was coming off of a duty station that was supposed to give me my choice of what I wanted (arduous overseas duty).

Yeah I think they did that just to screw with us.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

Good ol Meridian. The only place I personally saw a sign at a bar that said no blacks allowed. I could not believe it and this was the early 80's. Must have been ron paul territory. This was also the place where I saw or heard an asian woman at a barber shop with a souther accent. Cracked me up really.

I know exactly what bar you're talking about.......Pott's Place where they played live country music on weekends.

Tried to go there once with a friend of mine who was black and we were both in uniform. They told me I could go in, but he had to stay outside (and the bouncer had an axehandle).

Never went back to that place again.

Ever party at Judge Roy Beans?

 

[Zoom]

Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell' | The Weekly Standard

Have to agree. The phoney outrage being displayed by the kooks is rediculous.

Interesting................a retired military officer is saying that it's okay that these Marines violated the Standards of Conduct as well as the Geneva Conventions, and he just wants to give 'em a slap on the wrist.

They should be courts martialed and gived Bad Conduct Discharges.

I guess West forgot what the rules were when he was in.

You have to remember why the military "asked" him to retire.