Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

[Zoom]

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

Good ol Meridian. The only place I personally saw a sign at a bar that said no blacks allowed. I could not believe it and this was the early 80's. Must have been ron paul territory. This was also the place where I saw or heard an asian woman at a barber shop with a souther accent. Cracked me up really.

I know exactly what bar you're talking about.......Pott's Place where they played live country music on weekends.

Tried to go there once with a friend of mine who was black and we were both in uniform. They told me I could go in, but he had to stay outside (and the bouncer had an axehandle).

Never went back to that place again.

Ever party at Judge Roy Beans?

I was young ("A" school myself) and after I saw that sign, I never went off base again. I partied on the base and had a blast. Not sure if Judge Roy Beans was on or off base.

I do remember playing a lot of raquetball there. (My first time playing and have been playing since) and the base club. The food was crap but the barracks were not half bad really. I specifically remember having a few marines in my class and watching those gorilla's in front of a computer was the funniest thing. Cool kids though.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You said, and I quote:




You're essentially saying that if they do the same to us, we shouldn't care. And based on your previous statements in this thread and the other, you'd have no problem with our soldiers doing the same as they do. So yeah, that is essentially what you said. You said not to care if the same happened to you at the hands of the enemy.

I would care. It would be a barbaric act and completely deplorable and detestable. Same if our soldiers do it.

Exactly, if it happens to me I won't care, so why should you. Where does that say anything like what you said? You were trying to make it personally and I defused it. People in war are emotionally charged, and getting morally indignant about will just perpetuate the problem.

Allowing stupid behavior like this and sweeping it under the rug will only undermine good order and discipline.

Try again.

Funny how I didn't say that, anymore than West did.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

Actually.............not quite the way you tell it............

Iraq interrogation incident

While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men.[6] The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer.[6] West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted nor witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi.[6] In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Hamoodi appeared to reach for his weapon and needed to be subdued.[6] Hamoodi was beaten by four soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body.[10] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head,[6] after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[6] At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[6] West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."[6]

West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers."[10] The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000.[6] LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would act differently under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[11] After Lieutenant Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter employed by a private contractor said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw "became more dangerous and chaotic".[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_(politician)

But, after seeing the way you advocate breaking rules in the military, I can understand how you left out certain salient points.

 

[Zoom]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

He broke a lot of military laws in doing so. You see, he was not trained on how to properly interogate that prisoner so he had no business doing what he did.

This is why the military has rules and why they asked him to not serve our country anymore due to him trying to be a know it all. He is what we call a "bad officer". He probably is looked up to by the right though.

 

[Dr Grump]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

Funny how you military types get all outraged at the atrocities dealt out by the Taliban scum etc, but when your own do it, it's kinda like "oh, well, war is hell".

There goes your moral high ground. And one of the main differences that is meant to be between them and you.

How does it feel to be compared to the Taliban and insurgents.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, I would have felt it was my duty.Where did you go to basic? I went to Great Mistake? also did my A school there. Pecker Checker.

Went to Orlando in July '82 (3 days after I turned 18), and A school was in Meridian MS, followed by my first duty station USS CONCORD at Pier 4, berth 2 Norfolk VA.

They gave us a dream sheet after graduation of where we wanted to be stationed and I put west or south and got Groton, CT I was stuck with the bubbleheads. There something not right about a guy that stays under the water for months.

Going to sea in a boat designed to sink is crazy. I told them no when they asked me to join.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

Funny how you military types get all outraged at the atrocities dealt out by the Taliban scum etc, but when your own do it, it's kinda like "oh, well, war is hell".

There goes your moral high ground. And one of the main differences that is meant to be between them and you.

How does it feel to be compared to the Taliban and insurgents.

Absolutely correct Dr. Grump.

 

[Zoom]

Allen West on Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Fair enough, but when the other side drags american bodies through the streets, will he say the same thing?

Did'nt he get in trouble for doing something the military said was wrong when it came to prisoners once? I believe he lost his career for it so his views are a little scewed.

If I remember right he threatened to shoot a prisoner to get information that might save the lives of some of his troops, he got the information.........

Funny how you military types get all outraged at the atrocities dealt out by the Taliban scum etc, but when your own do it, it's kinda like "oh, well, war is hell".

There goes your moral high ground. And one of the main differences that is meant to be between them and you.

How does it feel to be compared to the Taliban and insurgents.

Agreed, but please do not put all of us in the catagory of "you mlitary types". I have nothing to do with this guy.

 

[SFC Ollie]

LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would act differently under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[11] After Lieutenant Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter employed by a private contractor said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw "became more dangerous and chaotic".

Yes, I would have served with LTC West anytime.............

 

[bodecea]

my outrage stems from their stupidity of letting someone film this......

ex...act....leeeeeee!

 

[bodecea]

The marines should be filmed rubbing the dead bodies with pork chops. Anything. Let the enemy know that they can expect to kindness, no respect and no quarter.

What would rubbing them with pork chops do??

Make Katzndogz feel better since he regrets not being over there as a military volunteer....defending our freedoms and all. But you know, years ago, he took an arrow to the knee and the military won't take him.

 

[bodecea]

Your a waste of my time.... go away ya little softie.

Whatever you say, you virtually indistinguishable barbarian.

Lets meet up sometime....



lets see just how barbaric The Infidel really is





You fool.... I am not a warrior, and I know it.

At least I am no armchair quarterback crying about what the men on the front lines are doing to make war a bit easier for them.
If that means they pee on a body or two.... SO FUCKING WHAT!
Who am I to criticize them?

Ah yes...that Texas toughie persona.....

 

[bodecea]

I will NOT judge those guys... and I say it again, I wouldnt have done it.
I think it was bad judgement, ESPECIALLY recording it, but I refuse to judge them.

Hey Infidel, it's obvious that you've never served because you fail to understand that the military is required to follow rules in combat as well as keep a higher standard.

Just because you didn't enlist, DOES NOT automatically raise everyone to a level that is above reproach. They broke the rules, they showed and incredible lack of discipline and maturity, as well as have brought disgrace to themselves and the U.S. Marine Corps.

As a 20 year veteran, I probably see things differently, because unlike you, I understand why those rules are there, and the purpose that they serve because it was drilled into me during annual seminars on Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.

These men broke the rules for both the Code of Conduct AND broke the Geneva Conventions by desecration of a corpse.

Factor in that this tape ended up getting released right around the time that the Taliban was ready to start peace talks with the U.S., and you can understand how badly these guys fucked up.

As far as being a felony? Dunno.........that would be for a General Courts Martial to decide, because if they are proven to violate the Conventions, that does qualify as a "felony" in the military.

So.............before supporting something as being okay, don't you think you should understand the rules they broke FIRST?

Notice that I didn't say anything bad about you, just that you really don't understand what you're supporting. I'm trying to be nice and turn over a new leaf.

ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.
And no, I didnt serve (I regret that too) thanks for your service btw.

Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.

Nice pics of good deeds, all wiped out by the stupidity....if you were in the military, you would have heard that "1000 Attaboys can be wiped out by 1 Aw Shit".

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hey Infidel, it's obvious that you've never served because you fail to understand that the military is required to follow rules in combat as well as keep a higher standard.

Just because you didn't enlist, DOES NOT automatically raise everyone to a level that is above reproach. They broke the rules, they showed and incredible lack of discipline and maturity, as well as have brought disgrace to themselves and the U.S. Marine Corps.

As a 20 year veteran, I probably see things differently, because unlike you, I understand why those rules are there, and the purpose that they serve because it was drilled into me during annual seminars on Geneva Conventions and the Code of Conduct.

These men broke the rules for both the Code of Conduct AND broke the Geneva Conventions by desecration of a corpse.

Factor in that this tape ended up getting released right around the time that the Taliban was ready to start peace talks with the U.S., and you can understand how badly these guys fucked up.

As far as being a felony? Dunno.........that would be for a General Courts Martial to decide, because if they are proven to violate the Conventions, that does qualify as a "felony" in the military.

So.............before supporting something as being okay, don't you think you should understand the rules they broke FIRST?

Notice that I didn't say anything bad about you, just that you really don't understand what you're supporting. I'm trying to be nice and turn over a new leaf.

ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.
And no, I didnt serve (I regret that too) thanks for your service btw.

Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.

Nice pics of good deeds, all wiped out by the stupidity....if you were in the military, you would have heard that "1000 Attaboys can be wiped out by 1 Aw Shit".

Those deeds were not wiped out by stupidity in the minds of the people who were helped. In the minds of people who think we are evil all the good deeds in the world would not make a difference.

 

[bodecea]

ABS... you are not wrong in what you are saying.
And no, I didnt serve (I regret that too) thanks for your service btw.

Its just I understand why they did it, thats all I am saying.

I wouldnt have done it. I cant even bring myself to hunt deer, much less point a gun at another living human, but I understand why they did it.

I think it is unfortunate that these guys are putting our military in a bad light. We have the best soldiers in the world. For the most part they are more compassionate than any others on earth.

Nice pics of good deeds, all wiped out by the stupidity....if you were in the military, you would have heard that "1000 Attaboys can be wiped out by 1 Aw Shit".

Those deeds were not wiped out by stupidity in the minds of the people who were helped. In the minds of people who think we are evil all the good deeds in the world would not make a difference.

Sorry, but it does wiped those good deeds out....in the minds of the people we are supposed to be HELPING and SHOWING that their old tribal ways are wrong.


Pissing on bodies seems as barbarian as the Taliban....yes I know war is hell, I've seen private pics from Nam....but they were kept PRIVATE.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yanno.......Bodecea speaks the truth when she stated that "1,000 attaboys can be wiped out by 1 aw shit".

Factor in the fact that this is an international aw shit.......well........think about it..........what do people remember first, the things that you did well, or the things that you totally fucked up by showing your ass?

I'll give you a hint...........it's the latter.

Go ahead.........ask me how I know........it's a tawdry story of where I personally fucked up and came back.

 

[theHawk]

War? We are not officially at war with anyone.

Yes, we are. Radical Islamists are at war with us. The fact that we've had soldiers overseas for over a decade now fighting in combat, and many of them dying, means we're at war. Just because a bunch of suits in Washington don't "officially" declare war on someone doesn't mean we're any less at war.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nice pics of good deeds, all wiped out by the stupidity....if you were in the military, you would have heard that "1000 Attaboys can be wiped out by 1 Aw Shit".

Those deeds were not wiped out by stupidity in the minds of the people who were helped. In the minds of people who think we are evil all the good deeds in the world would not make a difference.

Sorry, but it does wiped those good deeds out....in the minds of the people we are supposed to be HELPING and SHOWING that their old tribal ways are wrong.


Pissing on bodies seems as barbarian as the Taliban....yes I know war is hell, I've seen private pics from Nam....but they were kept PRIVATE.

Really? Are you telling me that when you think of the military your first thought is how a few bad apples make everyone bad? Not just look bad, but actually rotten? I doubt that, I think you are smart enough to know they are the exception, and that the vast majority of the troops are more likely to hand out candy to kids than they are to piss on dead bodies.

I also think most of the world is the same way. I think they are more likely to remember that the Navy is the first to arrive after a major hurricane or earthquake than they are something like this picture. I guess I have more faith in people than you do.

I am not excusing anyone who does something bad, I am just able to keep it in perspective, and I know it is much less likely to happen if I expect the best of people than if I expect the worst. One good deed carries a lot more weight than you think it does. Just because the news doesn't talk about the good things does not mean that people do not know about them, or remember them. You should try believing in the good of people instead of the bad, I bet you life will be a lot better.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yanno.......Bodecea speaks the truth when she stated that "1,000 attaboys can be wiped out by 1 aw shit".

Factor in the fact that this is an international aw shit.......well........think about it..........what do people remember first, the things that you did well, or the things that you totally fucked up by showing your ass?

I'll give you a hint...........it's the latter.

Go ahead.........ask me how I know........it's a tawdry story of where I personally fucked up and came back.

She is wrong, just like you are. When you were in the Navy how many people came up to you and told you how a sailor or Marine helped their family at some point? How many came up told you a bad memory?