Air France Flight 447 - MISSING (228 feared dead)

[KittenKoder]

Yeah ...
Accidents statistics : Accidents by aircraft - Airfleets

 

[DavidS]

Um ... no it's far from impossible, it's a lot more common than you seem to think. Go ahead, take a 9-volt battery to your computer motherboard and connect it to two random points, same effect.

Ok - you know what - obviously you've done more research than I have. I'm talking to other pilots who've flown the exact same jet on another forum right now - the people who have spent thousands of hours flying this aircraft - and you seem to know better than them.

Please, by all means. Tell them all how you know better than they do.

AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 7 — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

You haven't tried the 9-volt battery experiment have you. Here's the trick, most times the connection you make by randomly sending an electric shock through a PCB will result in maybe a small amount of damage, and the components will continue to function, just a little diminished. Once in a while though the path you pick will go directly to the CPU ... which will make it completely useless until replaced. There are many ... many ... many more possible ways that a lightning strike can go wrong, and the designers work to account for as many as possible, but no matter how well you design a machine, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. The longer a machine goes without problems the higher the chance that the first problem will be fatal to the machine, and in the case of jets, the crew and passengers.

I'm sorry, but you're comparing a $1500 computer to a multi-multi-million dollar jet? Am I even having this conversation? This is worse than talking to Shogun.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Ok - you know what - obviously you've done more research than I have. I'm talking to other pilots who've flown the exact same jet on another forum right now - the people who have spent thousands of hours flying this aircraft - and you seem to know better than them.

Please, by all means. Tell them all how you know better than they do.

AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 7 — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

You haven't tried the 9-volt battery experiment have you. Here's the trick, most times the connection you make by randomly sending an electric shock through a PCB will result in maybe a small amount of damage, and the components will continue to function, just a little diminished. Once in a while though the path you pick will go directly to the CPU ... which will make it completely useless until replaced. There are many ... many ... many more possible ways that a lightning strike can go wrong, and the designers work to account for as many as possible, but no matter how well you design a machine, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. The longer a machine goes without problems the higher the chance that the first problem will be fatal to the machine, and in the case of jets, the crew and passengers.

I'm sorry, but you're comparing a $1500 computer to a multi-multi-million dollar jet? Am I even having this conversation? This is worse than talking to Shogun.

I never spent $1500 on a computer...I know this little Jewish guy who has a friend who...

 

[KittenKoder]

Ok - you know what - obviously you've done more research than I have. I'm talking to other pilots who've flown the exact same jet on another forum right now - the people who have spent thousands of hours flying this aircraft - and you seem to know better than them.

Please, by all means. Tell them all how you know better than they do.

AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 7 — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

You haven't tried the 9-volt battery experiment have you. Here's the trick, most times the connection you make by randomly sending an electric shock through a PCB will result in maybe a small amount of damage, and the components will continue to function, just a little diminished. Once in a while though the path you pick will go directly to the CPU ... which will make it completely useless until replaced. There are many ... many ... many more possible ways that a lightning strike can go wrong, and the designers work to account for as many as possible, but no matter how well you design a machine, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. The longer a machine goes without problems the higher the chance that the first problem will be fatal to the machine, and in the case of jets, the crew and passengers.

I'm sorry, but you're comparing a $1500 computer to a multi-multi-million dollar jet? Am I even having this conversation? This is worse than talking to Shogun.

Gain some experience in electronics, then you will officially be "in this conversation". Accidents happen, that is undeniable, the only thing remotely "fishy" is the lack of communication, however, a lightning strike can explain that. What other explanation is there? Lightning strike would zap the communications system, one in a million chance is still a chance and there is no way to make it perfect. There are millions of flights across the globe every day, do the math, with more than a million flights per day we are lucky we don't see this more often.

 

[DavidS]

Yeah ...
Accidents statistics : Accidents by aircraft - Airfleets

This is my first time really going head to head with you, KK. And because people like you on here, I'm going to go easy on you.

For the entire HISTORY of the A330 - only 7 people have died. There are currently 1,021 Airbus 330s in operation. You have to consider that 75% of them are in operation daily making at least 4 flights a day.

The 7 people who died, died in a fucking test flight. So, during the entire history of the A330, which is since 1993, there have been NO DEATHS related to the A330 on ANY commercial flight. In addition, there have only been, prior to this crash, 6 incidents worthy of note involving a close to 20 year service record. 5 of those incidents did not in Western nations where pilot training is more rigorous and airlines operate with higher budgets. 1 incident occurred in Australia last October. The ONLY incident worthy of mention in the close to 20 year operation of this jetliner is Qantas Flight 72 which occurred last October. Although a couple of dozen people were hurt, no one was killed thanks to experienced pilots. The problem had to do with a faulty ADIRU system.

In close to 20 years of service, NO Airbus A330s have crashed up until Monday.

And the ITCZ isn't even as active this time of year as it normally is due to how suppressed it is due to a fading La Nina and emerging El Nino. This jet did not come down on its own. It had help.

 

[DavidS]

You haven't tried the 9-volt battery experiment have you. Here's the trick, most times the connection you make by randomly sending an electric shock through a PCB will result in maybe a small amount of damage, and the components will continue to function, just a little diminished. Once in a while though the path you pick will go directly to the CPU ... which will make it completely useless until replaced. There are many ... many ... many more possible ways that a lightning strike can go wrong, and the designers work to account for as many as possible, but no matter how well you design a machine, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. The longer a machine goes without problems the higher the chance that the first problem will be fatal to the machine, and in the case of jets, the crew and passengers.

I'm sorry, but you're comparing a $1500 computer to a multi-multi-million dollar jet? Am I even having this conversation? This is worse than talking to Shogun.

I never spent $1500 on a computer...I know this little Jewish guy who has a friend who...

I have an hp quad-core with 1 TB h/d and 8 gigs of DDR3 RAM. Cost me a pretty penny but it meets my needs.

 

[DavidS]

You haven't tried the 9-volt battery experiment have you. Here's the trick, most times the connection you make by randomly sending an electric shock through a PCB will result in maybe a small amount of damage, and the components will continue to function, just a little diminished. Once in a while though the path you pick will go directly to the CPU ... which will make it completely useless until replaced. There are many ... many ... many more possible ways that a lightning strike can go wrong, and the designers work to account for as many as possible, but no matter how well you design a machine, there is always a chance that something can go wrong. The longer a machine goes without problems the higher the chance that the first problem will be fatal to the machine, and in the case of jets, the crew and passengers.

I'm sorry, but you're comparing a $1500 computer to a multi-multi-million dollar jet? Am I even having this conversation? This is worse than talking to Shogun.

Gain some experience in electronics, then you will officially be "in this conversation". Accidents happen, that is undeniable, the only thing remotely "fishy" is the lack of communication, however, a lightning strike can explain that. What other explanation is there? Lightning strike would zap the communications system, one in a million chance is still a chance and there is no way to make it perfect. There are millions of flights across the globe every day, do the math, with more than a million flights per day we are lucky we don't see this more often.

Do you have any idea how many jets have been struck by lightning in the past 80 years of service? If every single jet that was struck by lightning crashed, there would be a lot less people on this planet.

Please - do some research. Learn before you decide to respond to me in a conversation. I've thus far gone easy on you, but you're trying my patience.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Dayum!

 

[KittenKoder]

Yeah ...
Accidents statistics : Accidents by aircraft - Airfleets

This is my first time really going head to head with you, KK. And because people like you on here, I'm going to go easy on you.

For the entire HISTORY of the A330 - only 7 people have died. There are currently 1,021 Airbus 330s in operation. You have to consider that 75% of them are in operation daily making at least 4 flights a day.

The 7 people who died, died in a fucking test flight. So, during the entire history of the A330, which is since 1993, there have been NO DEATHS related to the A330 on ANY commercial flight. In addition, there have only been, prior to this crash, 6 incidents worthy of note involving a close to 20 year service record. 5 of those incidents did not in Western nations where pilot training is more rigorous and airlines operate with higher budgets. 1 incident occurred in Australia last October. The ONLY incident worthy of mention in the close to 20 year operation of this jetliner is Qantas Flight 72 which occurred last October. Although a couple of dozen people were hurt, no one was killed thanks to experienced pilots. The problem had to do with a faulty ADIRU system.

In close to 20 years of service, NO Airbus A330s have crashed up until Monday.

And the ITCZ isn't even as active this time of year as it normally is due to how suppressed it is due to a fading La Nina and emerging El Nino. This jet did not come down on its own. It had help.

You are ignoring the simple fact, all they can do is minimize chances ... they cannot make anything 100% safe, that's impossible, there is always something that can go wrong, and living by Murphy's Law is something we have no choice in, "what can go wrong will go wrong, only worse than you expected". They have brought the chances of such errors down as low as possible, but the lowest is still one in a million, with millions of flights the mathematics are quite simple, we have been very lucky this isn't more common.

 

[DavidS]

Yeah ...
Accidents statistics : Accidents by aircraft - Airfleets

This is my first time really going head to head with you, KK. And because people like you on here, I'm going to go easy on you.

For the entire HISTORY of the A330 - only 7 people have died. There are currently 1,021 Airbus 330s in operation. You have to consider that 75% of them are in operation daily making at least 4 flights a day.

The 7 people who died, died in a fucking test flight. So, during the entire history of the A330, which is since 1993, there have been NO DEATHS related to the A330 on ANY commercial flight. In addition, there have only been, prior to this crash, 6 incidents worthy of note involving a close to 20 year service record. 5 of those incidents did not in Western nations where pilot training is more rigorous and airlines operate with higher budgets. 1 incident occurred in Australia last October. The ONLY incident worthy of mention in the close to 20 year operation of this jetliner is Qantas Flight 72 which occurred last October. Although a couple of dozen people were hurt, no one was killed thanks to experienced pilots. The problem had to do with a faulty ADIRU system.

In close to 20 years of service, NO Airbus A330s have crashed up until Monday.

And the ITCZ isn't even as active this time of year as it normally is due to how suppressed it is due to a fading La Nina and emerging El Nino. This jet did not come down on its own. It had help.

You are ignoring the simple fact, all they can do is minimize chances ... they cannot make anything 100% safe, that's impossible, there is always something that can go wrong, and living by Murphy's Law is something we have no choice in, "what can go wrong will go wrong, only worse than you expected". They have brought the chances of such errors down as low as possible, but the lowest is still one in a million, with millions of flights the mathematics are quite simple, we have been very lucky this isn't more common.

I'm sorry but you're arguing a fictitious superstition against hundreds of millions of dollars of science, engineering and technology?

Ok, I'm done with this conversation with you. I appreciate the fact that you're trying to run with the big dogs here, but you've got a ways to go.

 

[xotoxi]

For the entire HISTORY of the A330 - only 7 people have died. There are currently 1,021 Airbus 330s in operation. You have to consider that 75% of them are in operation daily making at least 4 flights a day.

The 7 people who died, died in a fucking test flight. So, during the entire history of the A330, which is since 1993, there have been NO DEATHS related to the A330 on ANY commercial flight. In addition, there have only been, prior to this crash, 6 incidents worthy of note involving a close to 20 year service record. 5 of those incidents did not in Western nations where pilot training is more rigorous and airlines operate with higher budgets. 1 incident occurred in Australia last October. The ONLY incident worthy of mention in the close to 20 year operation of this jetliner is Qantas Flight 72 which occurred last October. Although a couple of dozen people were hurt, no one was killed thanks to experienced pilots. The problem had to do with a faulty ADIRU system.

In close to 20 years of service, NO Airbus A330s have crashed up until Monday.

David...did you realize that everything in the world that happens, has to at least happen once for the first time?

 

[xotoxi]

Aviation Losses from Lightning Strikes - National Lightning Safety Institute

 

[KittenKoder]

This is my first time really going head to head with you, KK. And because people like you on here, I'm going to go easy on you.

For the entire HISTORY of the A330 - only 7 people have died. There are currently 1,021 Airbus 330s in operation. You have to consider that 75% of them are in operation daily making at least 4 flights a day.

The 7 people who died, died in a fucking test flight. So, during the entire history of the A330, which is since 1993, there have been NO DEATHS related to the A330 on ANY commercial flight. In addition, there have only been, prior to this crash, 6 incidents worthy of note involving a close to 20 year service record. 5 of those incidents did not in Western nations where pilot training is more rigorous and airlines operate with higher budgets. 1 incident occurred in Australia last October. The ONLY incident worthy of mention in the close to 20 year operation of this jetliner is Qantas Flight 72 which occurred last October. Although a couple of dozen people were hurt, no one was killed thanks to experienced pilots. The problem had to do with a faulty ADIRU system.

In close to 20 years of service, NO Airbus A330s have crashed up until Monday.

And the ITCZ isn't even as active this time of year as it normally is due to how suppressed it is due to a fading La Nina and emerging El Nino. This jet did not come down on its own. It had help.

You are ignoring the simple fact, all they can do is minimize chances ... they cannot make anything 100% safe, that's impossible, there is always something that can go wrong, and living by Murphy's Law is something we have no choice in, "what can go wrong will go wrong, only worse than you expected". They have brought the chances of such errors down as low as possible, but the lowest is still one in a million, with millions of flights the mathematics are quite simple, we have been very lucky this isn't more common.

I'm sorry but you're arguing a fictitious superstition against hundreds of millions of dollars of science, engineering and technology?

Ok, I'm done with this conversation with you. I appreciate the fact that you're trying to run with the big dogs here, but you've got a ways to go.

Um .. no ... it's pure science that I am using, called physics, the rule of physics is what Murphy's Law was created from as a joke, and the most common rule within physics is that not one thing in existence is 100% predictable, period. Murphy's Law is a humorous take on the laws of physics, since physics regularly proves itself wrong, except for that one law, that nothing is predictable. It is you who are ignoring science and technology, almost half of electronics is still theory, even programming uses a lot of theory, because there is ALWAYS a chance that something will not work as expected. You are working on the myth that safety can protect you, in reality it can only decrease your chances of harm, not stop harm.

 

[DavidS]

Further proof to discredit KK.

BlueBox Video Player - weather.com

 

[KittenKoder]

Further proof to discredit KK.

BlueBox Video Player - weather.com

Really ... you are delusional huh? Clouds and rain don't make lightning, they just conduct it closer to the ground. So your point?

 

[editec]

Shall I do the socially expected thing and say how tragic I think this is, and how much my heart goes out for those people's families?

No, I don't think I will. I would be lying to you if I said that.

A plane fell out of the sky.

I don't know anyone on it and to be perfectly honest I don't really care.

Every death may be a tragedy, but let's be honest, shall we?

Every death is not OUR tragedy.

 

[DavidS]

Can we drop this discussion of lightning once and for all?

http://www.weatherimagery.com/blog/lightning-strike-plane/

A plane hasn't been "shot down" by lightning in the past 40+ years. It doesn't happen today and we have planes taking off AND landing in super cell thunderstorms all the time.

Today's modern airliners are more than well equipped to handle the most severe of storms. Everyone thought ice was what brought down Colgan 3407 when it was lack of experience with the crew who made an error with the auto pilot.

This was a veteran crew on a state of the art jet owned and operated by a large, rich airline based out of a Western country. No plane like this is just brought down by lightning - ESPECIALLY when they know they're crossing the ITCZ.

 

[opoll602]

I heard about the crash on the noon news but no details. They just aren't saying much. (I don't have cable so don't know about cnn). This must be really hard since you know these people/ see them everyday at work. What does Revel entertainment do? I hope there are survivors. I'm so sorry this has happened to people in your building. Let us know if you hear anything.

 

[DavidS]

I heard about the crash on the noon news but no details. They just aren't saying much. (I don't have cable so don't know about cnn). This must be really hard since you know these people/ see them everyday at work. What does Revel entertainment do? I hope there are survivors. I'm so sorry this has happened to people in your building. Let us know if you hear anything.

Even if people survived the decent into the ocean (highly unlikely due to the g-forces at work) they would have died by now of hypothermia for being in the ocean so long.

 

[editec]

So I presume that DavidS's point in posting this is to engage us in a discussion whether or not the plane went down because of a terrorist.

Am I right DavidS?

Now let me ask you something...if it did why hasn't anyone claimed responsibility for it?

Because if the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize us, then letting the plane go down as a mystery event isn't going to do much to make us fearful of terrorist, is it?

Given where the plane went down, it is unlikely we're ever know what brought it to this tragic ending.

So what does this whole story really amount to for most of us?

Not a damned thing.