After watching explain how you can support abortion

[Zoom-boing]

Oh, and one last parting shot, as I leave. 8 weeks is actually the most common point at which an abortion is performed. Since we're all sharing pictures, and videos:

Who can tell me what gender the fetus in that photo is? Hell, who can tell me what species the fetus in that photo is, and how do you come to your conclusion?

No? Have a nice fucking day. We're done.

Oh, so if it doesn't LOOK human that's proof that it isn't human. Waddaidiot.

Tell that to the Elephant Man.

Bub-bye you fucking idiot! Run away, run away!

 

[rdean]

And yet Republicans gleefully cut the school lunch program and food stamps for children and education. Why not support the "born" once in a while?

Just being born and suddenly you aren't worth anything?

These are the posts Republicans ignore. They don't want to be reminded that the "born" also need help or even exist.

 

[Czernobog]

And yet Republicans gleefully cut the school lunch program and food stamps for children and education. Why not support the "born" once in a while?

Just being born and suddenly you aren't worth anything?

These are the posts Republicans ignore. They don't want to be reminded that the "born" also need help or even exist.

 

[Zoom-boing]

And yet Republicans gleefully cut the school lunch program and food stamps for children and education. Why not support the "born" once in a while?

Just being born and suddenly you aren't worth anything?

These are the posts Republicans ignore. They don't want to be reminded that the "born" also need help or even exist.

We ignore posts by you because you're an idiot.

 

[BULLDOG]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

 

[BULLDOG]

And yet Republicans gleefully cut the school lunch program and food stamps for children and education. Why not support the "born" once in a while?

Just being born and suddenly you aren't worth anything?

These are the posts Republicans ignore. They don't want to be reminded that the "born" also need help or even exist.

We ignore posts by you because you're an idiot.

Or because you have no rational response. You run from anything that doesn't fit your predefined rhetoric. Coward.

 

[Zoom-boing]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

Inception? I don't think so, Tim.

Asked and answered, one more shot and if you still don't understand my pov, well ... I can't make it any clearer to you. When the cells divide, that is the start of a new human being. Prior to those cells dividing, that new human didn't exist; after the first cells divide? THAT POINT, THAT DIVISION is the very first step of development of a human being. I base my claim on common sense. Everything has a beginning, a starting point, the very first step ... cell division is the first step in making a new human therefore, that's when a new human being is created/comes into being/starts its existence. That it isn't as developed as, say, an 8 week old embryo or a 9 month old fetus or a 1 year old born human doesn't make it any less human, it just makes it less developed ... but still a human being.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Or because you have no rational response. You run from anything that doesn't fit your predefined rhetoric. Coward.

Boy, do you have a short memory.

One would assume that the mother and father would care for their child. Their child. If not, they can put the baby up for adoption. I'm find with helping those who truly cannot help themselves. Cut welfare for those who can and are able to work but chose not to and use those monies to feed the babbies.

Try again, derp.

 

[BULLDOG]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

Inception? I don't think so, Tim.

Asked and answered, one more shot and if you still don't understand pov, well ... I can't make it any clearer to you. When the cells divide, that is the start of a new human being. Prior to those cells dividing, that new human didn't exist; after the first cells divide? THAT POINT, THAT DIVISION is the very first step of development of a human being. I base my claim on common sense. Everything has a beginning, a starting point, the very first step ... cell division is the first step in making a new human therefore, that's when a new human being is created/comes into being/starts its existence. That it isn't as developed as, say, an 8 week old embryo or a 9 month old fetus or a 1 year old born human doesn't make it any less human, it just makes it less developed ... but still a human being.

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

That's just it .... that first step of cell division starts the creation. That's what brings the creation (the human being) into existence. That first step IS the starting point of that human being's existence. How can you say that it isn't? Prior to those first cells dividing, there was nothing there, was there? Just the separate pieces (eggs/sperm) but no developing being.

At the starting point, is that human being fully developed? No. Is that human being recognizable? No. Is that human being viable outside of the womb? No. But what it is, is a human being. Just because it is in such an early stage of development that you don't even know what you're looking at does not make is any less of a human.

That's why pro-life people find abortion so abhorrent, why we have such a difficult time with that 'choice'. It's one thing if a woman believes she is aborting 'just a bunch of meaningless cells'; quite another if you look at from the pro-life pov.

 

[BULLDOG]

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

That's just it .... that first step of cell division starts the creation. That's what brings the creation (the human being) into existence. That first step IS the starting point of that human being's existence. How can you say that it isn't? Prior to those first cells dividing, there was nothing there, was there? Just the separate pieces (eggs/sperm) but no developing being.

At the starting point, is that human being fully developed? No. Is that human being recognizable? No. Is that human being viable outside of the womb? No. But what it is, is a human being. Just because it is in such an early stage of development that you don't even know what you're looking at does not make is any less of a human.

That's why pro-life people find abortion so abhorrent, why we have such a difficult time with that 'choice'. It's one thing if a woman believes she is aborting 'just a bunch of meaningless cells'; quite another if you look at from the pro-life pov.

Well, no. Fertilization, or cell division are not the first steps. The development of eggs are certainly a required step in producing a separate human life, and there are almost countless others before the one you arbitrarily chose. If you are adamant that the first step is when life begins, why do you ignore all the previous steps?

 

[Dana7360]

WAKE SAID:

“I don't support abortion, not even in cases of incest and rape.”

No one 'supports' abortion in any case – that's not the issue; everyone should support a woman's right to make the choice to have a child or not absent unwarranted interference from the state, that's the issue.

It's the "not" part we have trouble with because the "not" part kills an unborn human being and killing an unborn human being is wrong. Don't you think so?

By definition, there is no such thing as an "unborn human being". by definition an "unborn" human being is an impossibility.

Wrong. It is human...

Oh! It is genetically human; that doesn't make it a human being (refer back to the definition of human being in my earlier post). Cancer cells are also genetically human. Would you conflate them to persons, as well? Words have meaning, and those meanings matter.

I would also add ectopic pregnancy to that.

It's a fertilized human egg. However there is no life nor will there ever be any life in that fertilized human egg.

The only thing that it will do is kill the woman.

I'll also add all those frozen zygotes that the far right want to throw away as trash instead of using for medical science and research. To the far right, those zygotes are just garbage.

 

[BULLDOG]

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

That's just it .... that first step of cell division starts the creation. That's what brings the creation (the human being) into existence. That first step IS the starting point of that human being's existence. How can you say that it isn't? Prior to those first cells dividing, there was nothing there, was there? Just the separate pieces (eggs/sperm) but no developing being.

At the starting point, is that human being fully developed? No. Is that human being recognizable? No. Is that human being viable outside of the womb? No. But what it is, is a human being. Just because it is in such an early stage of development that you don't even know what you're looking at does not make is any less of a human.

That's why pro-life people find abortion so abhorrent, why we have such a difficult time with that 'choice'. It's one thing if a woman believes she is aborting 'just a bunch of meaningless cells'; quite another if you look at from the pro-life pov.

Are you saying that the production of eggs in the young child is not a step that comes before cell division in producing a separate human life? There is no other purpose for the eggs, and they are certainly required.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

That's just it .... that first step of cell division starts the creation. That's what brings the creation (the human being) into existence. That first step IS the starting point of that human being's existence. How can you say that it isn't? Prior to those first cells dividing, there was nothing there, was there? Just the separate pieces (eggs/sperm) but no developing being.

At the starting point, is that human being fully developed? No. Is that human being recognizable? No. Is that human being viable outside of the womb? No. But what it is, is a human being. Just because it is in such an early stage of development that you don't even know what you're looking at does not make is any less of a human.

That's why pro-life people find abortion so abhorrent, why we have such a difficult time with that 'choice'. It's one thing if a woman believes she is aborting 'just a bunch of meaningless cells'; quite another if you look at from the pro-life pov.

Well, no. Fertilization, or cell division are not the first steps. The development of eggs are certainly a required step in producing a separate human life, and there are almost countless others before the one you arbitrarily chose. If you are adamant that the first step is when life begins, why do you ignore all the previous steps?

Yes, they are the first steps. Stop being obtuse.

Eggs are over here, sperm are over there, no 'being' has been created. They hookup, fertilization happens, cells divide: a new human being just got created.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

That's just it .... that first step of cell division starts the creation. That's what brings the creation (the human being) into existence. That first step IS the starting point of that human being's existence. How can you say that it isn't? Prior to those first cells dividing, there was nothing there, was there? Just the separate pieces (eggs/sperm) but no developing being.

At the starting point, is that human being fully developed? No. Is that human being recognizable? No. Is that human being viable outside of the womb? No. But what it is, is a human being. Just because it is in such an early stage of development that you don't even know what you're looking at does not make is any less of a human.

That's why pro-life people find abortion so abhorrent, why we have such a difficult time with that 'choice'. It's one thing if a woman believes she is aborting 'just a bunch of meaningless cells'; quite another if you look at from the pro-life pov.

Are you saying that the production of eggs in the young child is not a step that comes before cell division in producing a separate human life? There is no other purpose for the eggs, and they are certainly required.

You're flailing around here doing the Gumby stretch.

I'm saying that we're talking about what abortion is and what abortion does and that prior to those cells dividing, there is no 'being' to be aborted; after those cells divide there is a 'being' and that 'being', 100% a human being, dies because that what abortion does, it kills an unborn human being.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I would also add ectopic pregnancy to that.

It's a fertilized human egg. However there is no life nor will there ever be any life in that fertilized human egg.

The only thing that it will do is kill the woman.

I'll also add all those frozen zygotes that the far right want to throw away as trash instead of using for medical science and research. To the far right, those zygotes are just garbage.

You're saying that an embryo isn't alive? Wrong, wrong, wrong. A human embryo is a living, developing being. True story!

"An ectopic pregnancy, or eccysis, is a complication of pregnancy in which the embryo implants outside the uterine cavity.[1] With rare exceptions, ectopic pregnancies are not viable. Furthermore, they are dangerous for the mother, since internal haemorrhage is a life-threatening complication. Most ectopic pregnancies occur in the Fallopian tube (so-called tubal pregnancies), but implantation can also occur in the cervix, ovaries, and abdomen. An ectopic pregnancy is a potential medical emergency, and, if not treated properly, can lead to death.

In a typical ectopic pregnancy, the embryo adheres to the lining of the fallopian tube and burrows into the tubal lining. Most commonly this invades vessels and will cause bleeding."

Ectopic pregnancy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"In humans, an embryo is generally considered to be between the first and the eighth week of development after fertilization."

Embryo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Zoom-boing]

I would also add ectopic pregnancy to that.

It's a fertilized human egg. However there is no life nor will there ever be any life in that fertilized human egg.

The only thing that it will do is kill the woman.

I'll also add all those frozen zygotes that the far right want to throw away as trash instead of using for medical science and research. To the far right, those zygotes are just garbage.

They're human beings, moron.

 

[Newby]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

Inception? I don't think so, Tim.

Asked and answered, one more shot and if you still don't understand pov, well ... I can't make it any clearer to you. When the cells divide, that is the start of a new human being. Prior to those cells dividing, that new human didn't exist; after the first cells divide? THAT POINT, THAT DIVISION is the very first step of development of a human being. I base my claim on common sense. Everything has a beginning, a starting point, the very first step ... cell division is the first step in making a new human therefore, that's when a new human being is created/comes into being/starts its existence. That it isn't as developed as, say, an 8 week old embryo or a 9 month old fetus or a 1 year old born human doesn't make it any less human, it just makes it less developed ... but still a human being.

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

So now you're basically admitting that there is an 'intelligent design' behind human existence!! Good for you! You can't make this shit up!!! lol

Who compares building a clock to creating life? Seriously?

 

[Zoom-boing]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

Inception? I don't think so, Tim.

Asked and answered, one more shot and if you still don't understand pov, well ... I can't make it any clearer to you. When the cells divide, that is the start of a new human being. Prior to those cells dividing, that new human didn't exist; after the first cells divide? THAT POINT, THAT DIVISION is the very first step of development of a human being. I base my claim on common sense. Everything has a beginning, a starting point, the very first step ... cell division is the first step in making a new human therefore, that's when a new human being is created/comes into being/starts its existence. That it isn't as developed as, say, an 8 week old embryo or a 9 month old fetus or a 1 year old born human doesn't make it any less human, it just makes it less developed ... but still a human being.

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

So now you're basically admitting that there is an 'intelligent design' behind human existence!! Good for you! You can't make this shit up!!! lol

Who compares building a clock to creating life? Seriously?

Ha, ha I thought the clock comparison was so far out of bounds that I ignored it. Same with the 'romantic evening' line. Dodgeball seems to be a game they're fond of!

 

[BULLDOG]

On what do you base that opinion?

Are you serious? Man, what are they not teaching in schools?

It isn't an opinion it is a fact. Prior to fertilization there isn't a human being, they don't exist. Once fertilized and cells divide, that's the starting point of a new human being. That's it, right there, that's the starting point. Again, how do you not know this? Those beginning cells, from the start, are a separate individual from the mother, own dna, unique one of a kind. This is how a new human being is made. Always.

Well, at least you will admit that an un implanted zygote is not a separate person, are willing to at least wait until cell division before you make your claim. Some right wingers want to claim it starts at inception which could be at the point of buying her that first drink. Actually, the mothers gnome controls the cell division for quite a while during the first stages of gestation. The clump of cells has no idea what or how to develop without control of the host organism. At that point , the cell group is nothing more than an undifferentiated clump of cells, and will not, in fact, can not differentiate in any particular way without direction given by the host organism's hormonal control. That point is well past the initial cell division stage. At some point, it does become a separate organism, but not at conception, or the first cell division. I ask again.....On what do you base your claim of a separate human life at the first cell division?

Inception? I don't think so, Tim.

Asked and answered, one more shot and if you still don't understand pov, well ... I can't make it any clearer to you. When the cells divide, that is the start of a new human being. Prior to those cells dividing, that new human didn't exist; after the first cells divide? THAT POINT, THAT DIVISION is the very first step of development of a human being. I base my claim on common sense. Everything has a beginning, a starting point, the very first step ... cell division is the first step in making a new human therefore, that's when a new human being is created/comes into being/starts its existence. That it isn't as developed as, say, an 8 week old embryo or a 9 month old fetus or a 1 year old born human doesn't make it any less human, it just makes it less developed ... but still a human being.

I build wooden clocks as a hobby. The first step is to decide on a design. That design is certainly not a clock. The first step in producing a child could be a romantic evening. There are many steps to both, but the first step is far from the point at which you can reasonably say you have actually created anything. If you claim you believe what you do for religious reasons, I'll believe you. I won't agree with your belief, but I will believe you. To say you believe cell division defines a separate human life because of proven medical facts, just doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

So now you're basically admitting that there is an 'intelligent design' behind human existence!! Good for you! You can't make this shit up!!! lol

Who compares building a clock to creating life? Seriously?

You're stretching there. I have no doubt that there might have been some sort of intelligent design involved, but it's obvious that any possible designer used evolution to obtain it's goals.