"after America, There Is No Place To Go"

[Derideo_Te]

iAgain I appeal to the troops here and ask that we treat each other nicely. The purpose of the OP is not to go after each other but offers an opportunity to discuss a concept.

The OP does not suggest that Austria is America. They are different countries, different cultures, and these are different times. The OP does not compare Hitler with Obama. They are different men in different times with, in my opinion, different motives.

I do not vouch for the accuracy of the history as related by Ms. Werthmann. The article appears to relate what she remembers it from her own experience, and, as I have already posted, there is no way to verify that she actually wrote it. Snopes says they are working on it and can neither affirm nor deny it.

What the article does suggest is that things are not always as they seem, and liberties can be lost by seemingly noble and good things.

It is interesting that it is mostly our leftists here who hate the article and object to it strongly. And it seems to resonate with those on the right.

I'll ask those on the left why they find it so offensive? And those on the right why it resonates with them?

I'm off to church and brunch now but will return by mid morning mountain time.

It wasn't offensive, just a little naive. As if it was aimed at being a primer for children rather than a serious historical examination of the events and consequences. But if it is a first hand account then I am not going to criticize if that is how she perceived those events.

What is interesting is that even after I made my original comments about the threat of losses of rights coming from both the extreme left and extreme right there are many partisan posts accusing the left of taking away "rights". The single biggest attack on our rights occurred with the passage of the Patriot Act. It stripped away Habeas Corpus and Privacy rights in one stroke. The right applauded that because they feared that terrorists would be crawling out from under their beds to murder them. It took the ACLU to fight to restore those rights.

So the threats to our rights come from both extremes. It is disingenuous to accuse only one side of doing it. We the People must defend the rights of others in order to preserve our own. If that means that I must uphold the rights of those who spew hateful things against gays, blacks and Muslims then sobeit. Upholding their rights doesn't mean that I agree with them, it just means that I uphold their right to be hate filled bigots.

We are all equal under the law and that means that we need to be vigilant about the rights of those who are not in a position to defend their rights. Healthcare is not a threat to our rights under the current ACA. It is really very little different than it was before the ACA. It is still in the hands of private enterprise and it still costs way too much but that is how it was designed by the right wing Heritage Foundation in the first place.

Allowing corporations to buy the outcome of elections is a threat to our rights. If you are worried about the things mentioned in the OP then replace the Germans with corporations and you will see a similar creeping erosion. Corporations do not have the best interests of We the People at heart. They have the power to convince you that everything will be better but the reality is that life under corporations has actually gotten worse rather than better. Americans are working harder than ever before and yet they are receiving less for their work. The American Dream has been stolen and what was supposed to be a retirement is now going to mean poverty for those who can no longer work.

That is the reality of the message in the OP. The deception is coming from those who are pretending to be on your side. They are dividing the American people because that makes is easier for them to conquer us. When we blame each other instead of those who are actually stripping away our rights then we are just doing their bidding.

 

[Unkotare]

Just looking for a country, not your street address.

Doesn't matter.

Uh-huh..............

 

[Unkotare]

Good thing we got rid of Bush when we did.

Your freedoms were intact during the Bush presidency. Not so much with the Obama regime.. Tell me, can you avoid buying Obamacare? Hmm?

Must mean the North Koreans are free, seeing as they don't have to buy Obamacare and this is the be all and end all of what freedom is about.[/QUOTE]


Why do you hate logic?

 

[Plasmaball]

good article FOXFYRE , thankyou . Quite often as I see the way things are going in the USA I am grateful that I'm 65 years old . I don't like what I see coming down the pike !!

What do you see coming down the pike?

a grave

 

[Plasmaball]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

 

[Kosh]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Says the far left Obama drone that voted for Obama twice..

 

[Plasmaball]

That OP sure sounds and looks familiar. Scarey thought. I, too, am glad I am almost 62 and hope like hell I don't reach 70 cuz I would hate to see the USA become what Austria wound up being. And I think it a damn good possibility that it will.

you can always just go find a high enough bridge and solve the issue now. Why wait?

 

[Plasmaball]

If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

NO, it comes from those who want to help you. In order to "help you" they need more power for government. See Obamacare.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy"

You ARE my enemy. You oppress my liberty by imposing your religious views onto me via the power of government. You are the enemy of people who value liberty. I don't need to beware of people saying this when I can see it myself.

You are the problem, not the solution.

Says the far left Obama drone that voted for Obama twice..

hey Kosh, hows it hanging?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Must mean the North Koreans are free, seeing as they don't have to buy Obamacare and this is the be all and end all of what freedom is about.

Why do you hate logic?

Did you really take this literally? Jeez...... There's a point here. See if you can spot it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Replace Hitler with Obama in the OP's piece and you see America's future unless we change course now.

sure, this is only a fact if you are a utter moron.

 

[Plasmaball]

AvgGuyIA,
Your freedoms were intact during the Bush presidency. Not so much with the Obama regime.. Tell me, can you avoid buying Obamacare? Hmm?

hey when you need to lie in order to have a point, who's going to take you seriously.

 

[Plasmaball]

Good thing we got rid of Bush when we did.

Your freedoms were intact during the Bush presidency. Not so much with the Obama regime.. Tell me, can you avoid buying Obamacare? Hmm?

Must mean the North Koreans are free, seeing as they don't have to buy Obamacare and this is the be all and end all of what freedom is about.

Why do you hate logic?[/QUOTE]
because it shows how stupid posts like Avgguys is.

 

[Foxfyre]

Perhaps most of us can just ignore those who refuse to be civil and discuss the topic but who want to hurl schoolyard insults at each other? For the life of me I can't understand why that is entertaining to some of you, but oh well. To each his own.

Meanwhile, back to the topic, I ran across this at the EagleForum.com:

From the Dakota Voice 2011:

About a year and a half ago, Kitty Werthmann of the Eagle Forum in South Dakota spoke in Rapid City about her experiences growing up in Nazi-controlled Austria. Her presentation was entitled “Socialism vs Freedom” and was a part of the SDFPC “Heritage Under Attack” series. The audience was riveted that night as they listened to Werthmann describe how Austria had come to embrace socialism and government control. What was even more striking was the fact that many of those descriptions could have been ripped from today’s headlines in the United States.

I wrote an article about Werthmann’s presentation, and that article was the #1 most read article at Dakota Voice for the entire year of 2009, even though it was written in the eleventh month of that year. The article continued to hold the #1 most read article of the week each week for months into 2010. . . .
America at Risk A Documentary​

Werthmann's message seems to consistently be a heartfelt mission to warn we in America that when we willingly turn over our liberties and choices and independence to a seemingly benevolent government, we are putting ourselves at risk of allowing evil people to control our lives. And if we Americans give in to that, there will be no place on Earth that people can go where their unalienable rights will be recognized and secured and they will be allowed to be whomever they wish to be.

 

[Plasmaball]

"America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away"

This thread fails as a false comparison fallacy, as Germany prior to the advent of Hitler and the United States today are in no way alike.


The thread also fails as hyperbolic demagoguery and fear-mongering nonsense, to make the ridiculous and unfounded 'argument' that the Nazi aberration could somehow manifest in the United States.

^^^. Famous Alinsky tactic.

famous moron tactic.....you all set using the Saul meme yet? It doesnt work

 

[Plasmaball]

iAgain I appeal to the troops here and ask that we treat each other nicely. The purpose of the OP is not to go after each other but offers an opportunity to discuss a concept.

The OP does not suggest that Austria is America. They are different countries, different cultures, and these are different times. The OP does not compare Hitler with Obama. They are different men in different times with, in my opinion, different motives.

I do not vouch for the accuracy of the history as related by Ms. Werthmann. The article appears to relate what she remembers it from her own experience, and, as I have already posted, there is no way to verify that she actually wrote it. Snopes says they are working on it and can neither affirm nor deny it.

What the article does suggest is that things are not always as they seem, and liberties can be lost by seemingly noble and good things.

It is interesting that it is mostly our leftists here who hate the article and object to it strongly. And it seems to resonate with those on the right.

I'll ask those on the left why they find it so offensive? And those on the right why it resonates with them?

I'm off to church and brunch now but will return by mid morning mountain time.

i have an idea, Shut up, you want people to go on about being nice. Then go to the clean debate zone you retard. I swear you do this on purpose. You post in this section so you can come in and claim that people be nice so you seem like a reasonable type person, after you have just posted something incredible stupid.

The USA is not become Germany, won't be happening anytime soon either.

 

[Plasmaball]

Country Rankings World Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

economics we rank 12th, So 12 other places you can go for the economy.
World s freest nations how to measure liberty.

20th for the press, so you have 20 other places you can go if you are the press.

Freedom Index Find Freedom

I put in 1.00 as in everything was crucial, naturally this isnt the case for everyone, But lets pretend it is.
9 other countries are freer than the USA.

Your OP is full of shit as per usual.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

You sound like you're already lost freedom and are so duped by the dictators who took it from you that you aren't even aware of it. The EPA is the green SS. And that's just for starters. Homo marriage is a gov coercion that takes away freedom and you're FOR it? Obamacare is nothing but more gov intrusion. Books and speech are banned by left wing entities and you put more blame on the right? People are segregated and subsequently castigated by the left and you think the right is the threat? Get a grip! You're demonstrating the existence of the concern in the thread's premise.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

You sound like you're already lost freedom and are so duped by the dictators who took it from you that you aren't even aware of it. The EPA is the green SS. And that's just for starters. Homo marriage is a gov coercion that takes away freedom and you're FOR it? Obamacare is nothing but more gov intrusion. Books and speech are banned by left wing entities and you put more blame on the right? People are segregated and subsequently castigated by the left and you think the right is the threat? Get a grip! You're demonstrating the existence of the concern in the thread's premise.

I tend to agree with this though it doesn't matter whether suppression of liberties occurs by the left or right--both are equally dangerous when imposed by a central government. The argument that America is better than pre-WWII Austria simply is irrelevant to the point Werthmann is making, i.e. if we fail to be aware and pay attention:

1. What seem to be well intentioned and useful government programs can in fact be wolves in sheep's clothing with motives that no way resemble what is put out there for public consumption.

2. Again, that frog put into hot water will immediately jump out. But put him in cold water and gradually heat it, and he will be lulled into complacency until he is boiled to death. Each tiny change in the law or policy that restricts our freedom, choices, options, and opportunities may seem unimportant in the grand scheme of things. But if we fail to push back and object, even strenuously resist, the central government taking over what we should decide for ourselves, eventually we collapse under the sheer weight of all those 'unimportant' little changes and lose all ability for self governance.

Who among us thinks that is or would be okay?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I don't doubt her sincerity but having lived and worked for many years overseas under a totalitarian regime I know what does and doesn't constitute such an entity. If there is going to be one in this nation it will come from those who claim they want to "protect us" from that happening. At the present I am hearing that from the extreme right rather than from the left.

Beware of those who would frighten you into believing that your fellow Americans are the "enemy" and be even more wary of those who claim that they can "protect" you from them. That applies to both extremes so I am not pointing fingers here because both extremes are equally capable of it.

We the People must protect our own rights from those who would take them away. We grow when we expand rights like gay marriage. We are threatened when we restrict rights like making it harder for everyone to vote. The biggest threat to our rights today is Citizens United in my opinion. Corporations are not part of We the People and should be banned from all elections in my opinion.

You sound like you're already lost freedom and are so duped by the dictators who took it from you that you aren't even aware of it. The EPA is the green SS. And that's just for starters. Homo marriage is a gov coercion that takes away freedom and you're FOR it? Obamacare is nothing but more gov intrusion. Books and speech are banned by left wing entities and you put more blame on the right? People are segregated and subsequently castigated by the left and you think the right is the threat? Get a grip! You're demonstrating the existence of the concern in the thread's premise.

I tend to agree with this though it doesn't matter whether suppression of liberties occurs by the left or right--both are equally dangerous when imposed by a central government. The argument that America is better than pre-WWII Austria simply is irrelevant to the point Werthmann is making, i.e. if we fail to be aware and pay attention:

1. What seem to be well intentioned and useful government programs can in fact be wolves in sheep's clothing with motives that no way resemble what is put out there for public consumption.

2. Again, that frog put into hot water will immediately jump out. But put him in cold water and gradually heat it, and he will be lulled into complacency until he is boiled to death. Each tiny change in the law or policy that restricts our freedom, choices, options, and opportunities may seem unimportant in the grand scheme of things. But if we fail to push back and object, even strenuously resist, the central government taking over what we should decide for ourselves, eventually we collapse under the sheer weight of all those 'unimportant' little changes and lose all ability for self governance.

Who among us thinks that is or would be okay?

Start by disbanding the EPA and IRS. But the dems would resist.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

All the while supporting the Saudis and pretending they're nice and warm and fuzzy,t.

the pure and perfect liberal stupidity is very very hard to imagine. As if the world would be better off if we abandoned them and half the worlds oil supply to the caliphate!!

See why we have to be 100% positive liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

[/QUOTE]