Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

[skookerasbil]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

Indeed...........falling off the cliff and laughing our balls off all the way down s0n!!!


Only mental cases think they are winning when they are down 64-0!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEwXa197uBU]The Most Disappointed Barrett Supporter In Wisconsin - YouTube[/ame]



LMAO.......this vid has gone viral.........probably resulted in more belly laughs than any vid on the net on 2012!!! FTMFW!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[Truthseeker420]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

Indeed...........falling off the cliff and laughing our balls off all the way down s0n!!!


Only mental cases think they are winning when they are down 64-0!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEwXa197uBU]The Most Disappointed Barrett Supporter In Wisconsin - YouTube[/ame]



LMAO.......this vid has gone viral.........probably resulted in more belly laughs than any vid on the net on 2012!!! FTMFW!!!

poor guy...he didn't know Democracy was dead with Reagan.

 

[blastoff]

The ones who are the most anti-union are the ones who kiss the boss's ass at work and lie and side with the boss when there are major problems in a work place and pretend everything is hunky dory.

Have someone read and explain to you DD's post #28.

 

[candycorn]

The ones who are the most anti-union are the ones who kiss the boss's ass at work and lie and side with the boss when there are major problems in a work place and pretend everything is hunky dory.

Your desperate fantasies have nothing to do with reality.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was long-time UMW member. If he couldn't do it sitting down, he wouldn't do it. And in construction, that's a shitty way to be.

In fairness, one of the best guys I ever worked with was a UMW worker. Always looking for something to do, and did it cheerfully. He was a short-time member, though, and hadn't had the initiative sucked out of him yet. He had some amazing stories of the union.

Unions protect the incompetent and lazy.

Yup. The incompetent and the lazy and they make the same money that the competent and go getter make.

I've worked in two union situations. In fact the last one the Union didn't defend me or my cohorts at all. Why?? Because we were junior on the seniority list and the fellow union members who were after out jobs, which we did quite well by the way, because we were working and they weren't. Seniorty is all. Doesn't matter if you have the intelligence of a box of rocks if your senior its all your way.

The company, James River, spent half a mil training us to do our jobs. We all had bids because it was production work and no senior union member wanted the jobs because you had to work for 8 hours. Fancy that.

All these senior guys were in the labor pool. They go assigned a job in the morning and then spent the rest of the day fucking off in the mill. Hiding in other words because God forbid anyone actually assign em another job.

The company had been telling these guys to take a bid because they were reducing the labor pool. Of course no one took a bid. the labor pool was tit and who in their right mind wants to work for 8 hours?? Anyway. The company vastly reduced the labor pool. The only guys left in it had 20-30 years seniority. Oh Oh. Now what do we do. We have lost our jobs. Of course we complain to the union and guess what. The union member filed a grievance because us little union members were working and they weren't. Yup. The Union sure looked out for us big time. Seniority is all even if the senior members are a bunch of lazy fucks.

The company fought it but knew they were gonna lose in arbitrations so then we had to train our replacements. Believe me. They would have rather kept us because we did the job and got the product out.

Moral of the story? Doesn't matter how well you do your job in a union situtation. If a senior member wants your job. Dont' expect the Union to defend your little ass because they won't. Seniority is all.

I have no use for Unions private or public. They had a place back in the day and now hinder more than they help.

Thanks for your contribution. But let me ask you something. Why do you think they "hinder more than they help?" What was it they used to do that they don't do now?

 

[Mr Natural]

Your desperate fantasies have nothing to do with reality.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was long-time UMW member. If he couldn't do it sitting down, he wouldn't do it. And in construction, that's a shitty way to be.

In fairness, one of the best guys I ever worked with was a UMW worker. Always looking for something to do, and did it cheerfully. He was a short-time member, though, and hadn't had the initiative sucked out of him yet. He had some amazing stories of the union.

Unions protect the incompetent and lazy.

Yup. The incompetent and the lazy and they make the same money that the competent and go getter make.

I've worked in two union situations. In fact the last one the Union didn't defend me or my cohorts at all. Why?? Because we were junior on the seniority list and the fellow union members who were after out jobs, which we did quite well by the way, because we were working and they weren't. Seniorty is all. Doesn't matter if you have the intelligence of a box of rocks if your senior its all your way.

The company, James River, spent half a mil training us to do our jobs. We all had bids because it was production work and no senior union member wanted the jobs because you had to work for 8 hours. Fancy that.

All these senior guys were in the labor pool. They go assigned a job in the morning and then spent the rest of the day fucking off in the mill. Hiding in other words because God forbid anyone actually assign em another job.

The company had been telling these guys to take a bid because they were reducing the labor pool. Of course no one took a bid. the labor pool was tit and who in their right mind wants to work for 8 hours?? Anyway. The company vastly reduced the labor pool. The only guys left in it had 20-30 years seniority. Oh Oh. Now what do we do. We have lost our jobs. Of course we complain to the union and guess what. The union member filed a grievance because us little union members were working and they weren't. Yup. The Union sure looked out for us big time. Seniority is all even if the senior members are a bunch of lazy fucks.

The company fought it but knew they were gonna lose in arbitrations so then we had to train our replacements. Believe me. They would have rather kept us because we did the job and got the product out.

Moral of the story? Doesn't matter how well you do your job in a union situtation. If a senior member wants your job. Dont' expect the Union to defend your little ass because they won't. Seniority is all.

I have no use for Unions private or public. They had a place back in the day and now hinder more than they help.

Thanks for your contribution. But let me ask you something. Why do you think they "hinder more than they help?" What was it they used to do that they don't do now?

They give you a false sense of your true worth in the job market by seeing to it that you're overpaid.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

yeah, the Repubs are arguing against their own best interests. Instead of demanding more from their employers they demand that unions get less. The irony is that "trickle down" only applies to certain people making money. The unions bosses make money and thats bad, the CEO's make money and that helps the economy.

 

[DGS49]

It makes no sense to rehash the fundamental difference between public and private sector Collective Bargaining - if you can't see the distortions of Government unions you are either stupid or intentionally ignoring reality.

But the real problem with U.S. private-sector unions that that they have evolved to work almost entirely for the benefit of the worst employees, and to the detriment of the enterprise. No one can blame them for seeking the highest possible wages and the best benefits, but in too many cases, they fight for counter-productive work rules, archane and unmanageable disciplinary processes, and to defend the jobs of the worst employees, regardless of competence, malfeasance, or workrule violations.

They talk a good game when it comes to cooperation with management, but where the rubber meets the road, they want their members to do as little work as possible, with no threat of negative sanctions for anything done (or not done) on the job.

It is very telling that the greatest inroads of unions today are in the public sector, utilities, and in construction where "prevailing wage" laws make their employers at least arguable competitive. In the competitive industries and businesses where they could have the greatest benefit (retailing, food service, housekeeping, etc), the unions have no interest in organizing, because it's difficult, and the employees don't make enough to pay high union dues.

To see the real costs of unions, look at the domestic auto industry and the domestic steel industry. They both provide a stark example of what is what. NONE of the import car makers are Union, despite decades of attempts by the UAW. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, M-B, BMW, Hyundai, all have U.S. production facilities that cook along quite nicely without unions. The UAW, on the other hand has run GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, and Ford is only scraping along by the skin of its figurative teeth because all of their North American facilities are mortgaged to the hilt.

In the steel industry, all of the mini-mills are relatively strong (the industry is in a terrible slump now), because NONE of them are "organized," while USS and Arcelor Mittal are struggling, selling steel for less than its production cost. The employees in the mini-mills are compensated fairly, and get bonuses based on the companies' profitability. They have work rules (and work attitudes) that promote the health of the enterprise, not the jobs of the senior union employees.

In Europe, particularly in Germany and the Benelux countries, the unions work hand-in-hand with management to promote efficiency and productivity.

Unions are not intrinsically bad, but in the U.S. they have generally chosen a destructive path, and it's almost too late to save them. It's a pity.

 

[Truthseeker420]

It makes no sense to rehash the fundamental difference between public and private sector Collective Bargaining - if you can't see the distortions of Government unions you are either stupid or intentionally ignoring reality.

But the real problem with U.S. private-sector unions that that they have evolved to work almost entirely for the benefit of the worst employees, and to the detriment of the enterprise. No one can blame them for seeking the highest possible wages and the best benefits, but in too many cases, they fight for counter-productive work rules, archane and unmanageable disciplinary processes, and to defend the jobs of the worst employees, regardless of competence, malfeasance, or workrule violations.

They talk a good game when it comes to cooperation with management, but where the rubber meets the road, they want their members to do as little work as possible, with no threat of negative sanctions for anything done (or not done) on the job.

It is very telling that the greatest inroads of unions today are in the public sector, utilities, and in construction where "prevailing wage" laws make their employers at least arguable competitive. In the competitive industries and businesses where they could have the greatest benefit (retailing, food service, housekeeping, etc), the unions have no interest in organizing, because it's difficult, and the employees don't make enough to pay high union dues.

To see the real costs of unions, look at the domestic auto industry and the domestic steel industry. They both provide a stark example of what is what. NONE of the import car makers are Union, despite decades of attempts by the UAW. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, M-B, BMW, Hyundai, all have U.S. production facilities that cook along quite nicely without unions. The UAW, on the other hand has run GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, and Ford is only scraping along by the skin of its figurative teeth because all of their North American facilities are mortgaged to the hilt.

In the steel industry, all of the mini-mills are relatively strong (the industry is in a terrible slump now), because NONE of them are "organized," while USS and Arcelor Mittal are struggling, selling steel for less than its production cost. The employees in the mini-mills are compensated fairly, and get bonuses based on the companies' profitability. They have work rules (and work attitudes) that promote the health of the enterprise, not the jobs of the senior union employees.

In Europe, particularly in Germany and the Benelux countries, the unions work hand-in-hand with management to promote efficiency and productivity.

Unions are not intrinsically bad, but in the U.S. they have generally chosen a destructive path, and it's almost too late to save them. It's a pity.

You think the Japanese government doesn't help Japanese car companies? a lot of WW2 POWs were used as slave labor for Japenese car companies.

 

[ClosedCaption]

See, if anyone thinks that Corporations will not make a push to end all unions you're gambling against logic

 

[DiamondDave]

If you hate unions only because your boss and business owners hate it you're an ass kisser

If yo make up uninformed bullshit statements, put them on this message board, and call yourself Flayo... you're only trying to perpetrate your lie of being a veteran for your own trolling purposes

 

[Shogun]

right wing workers are only against unions because, by default, if they work in a union shop they still receive the same benefits as what has been achieved by the union they so much hate.

Ironically, you'll never see a right winger laborer insist that they NOT receive these same benefits which were the product of unions despite the rhetoric and bumper stickers; it's easier to regurgitate talking points than abide by your own demands.

What I find very interesting, here in the Right To Work state of Missouri, is how many "Right To Work Is A Rip Off" bumper stickers that seem to be exponentially appearing.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

Right wingers have nothing to do with it. The non-union working person just witnessed unions, in particular, public unions, all get taken care of at the expense and delay of an improving economy. Union bosses are the 1 percent. The working man and out of work man don't want to see taxes go to line union bosses pockets and the elite Democratic party.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Dumb argument.
I would also like to receive $5000 a week for doing no work. I would also like to have 12 different 25 year old amazingly hot women line up for me each night and I get to choose who I sleep with each day.
Saying whether or not you would like to be a member of a union does not in any way argue for or against whether unions are good for business or the country.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

Right wingers have nothing to do with it. The non-union working person just witnessed unions, in particular, public unions, all get taken care of at the expense and delay of an improving economy. Union bosses are the 1 percent. The working man and out of work man don't want to see taxes go to line union bosses pockets and the elite Democratic party.

Wait, union bosses make money? You're right that unacceptable! Bosses work for free in the free market dont they?

 

[DGS49]

If the Unions would confine themselves to working prudently for the organized employees, the dues would be a pittance, and well worth it.

But employees should not be forced to fund a small army of full-time, well paid "international" union staff, AND millions in political contributions (in cash and in kind) for political causes and candidates that they might not like.

The question is, if more states make government employee union membership voluntary, will the Unions take the hint and streamline to meet the employees' needs at a reasonable cost? Eliminate the costly political bullshit?

Not in our lifetime.

 

[peach174]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

 

[Shogun]

No, the question REALLY is:

For those who want to leave a union will they accept the kind of wages and benefits that are not protected by the efforts of the very unions they rebuke?

I have no problem with giving every employee the CHOICE to join a union or not. Hell, in secrecy even.

But, for those who choose to pass on the union should also be ineligible for every wage standard and benefit required by the current labor agreement. Don't find value in the union organization? fine! Enjoy your substandard wages and benefit package that are offered by the company for the value of what they think your labor is worth. Enjoy it!

but, that simple isn't the case when people opt out of unions when unions are present, which, obviously grants the eating of a cake which is had as well.

 

[Shogun]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the average wage and benefit package of your frito banditos is significantly less than the same from the very union you avoided.