Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

[Claudette]

Your desperate fantasies have nothing to do with reality.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was long-time UMW member. If he couldn't do it sitting down, he wouldn't do it. And in construction, that's a shitty way to be.

In fairness, one of the best guys I ever worked with was a UMW worker. Always looking for something to do, and did it cheerfully. He was a short-time member, though, and hadn't had the initiative sucked out of him yet. He had some amazing stories of the union.

Unions protect the incompetent and lazy.

Yup. The incompetent and the lazy and they make the same money that the competent and go getter make.

I've worked in two union situations. In fact the last one the Union didn't defend me or my cohorts at all. Why?? Because we were junior on the seniority list and the fellow union members who were after out jobs, which we did quite well by the way, because we were working and they weren't. Seniorty is all. Doesn't matter if you have the intelligence of a box of rocks if your senior its all your way.

The company, James River, spent half a mil training us to do our jobs. We all had bids because it was production work and no senior union member wanted the jobs because you had to work for 8 hours. Fancy that.

All these senior guys were in the labor pool. They go assigned a job in the morning and then spent the rest of the day fucking off in the mill. Hiding in other words because God forbid anyone actually assign em another job.

The company had been telling these guys to take a bid because they were reducing the labor pool. Of course no one took a bid. the labor pool was tit and who in their right mind wants to work for 8 hours?? Anyway. The company vastly reduced the labor pool. The only guys left in it had 20-30 years seniority. Oh Oh. Now what do we do. We have lost our jobs. Of course we complain to the union and guess what. The union member filed a grievance because us little union members were working and they weren't. Yup. The Union sure looked out for us big time. Seniority is all even if the senior members are a bunch of lazy fucks.

The company fought it but knew they were gonna lose in arbitrations so then we had to train our replacements. Believe me. They would have rather kept us because we did the job and got the product out.

Moral of the story? Doesn't matter how well you do your job in a union situtation. If a senior member wants your job. Dont' expect the Union to defend your little ass because they won't. Seniority is all.

I have no use for Unions private or public. They had a place back in the day and now hinder more than they help.

Thanks for your contribution. But let me ask you something. Why do you think they "hinder more than they help?" What was it they used to do that they don't do now?

Unions were a good thing back in the day when the workers had no protection. They now have protections through Fed law.

Unions today protect the lazy, the thief and the unproductive. If your a union member your chances of getting fired for imcompetency is about nil. The go getter who puts out the work is making the same money as the slacker. The company can try to fire the unproductive worker but chances of that happening are slim to none.

I've seen it happen in both union situations I was involved in. They certainily hinder the company from getting its moneys worth from it semployeess.

 

[Caroljo]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

Exactly.....
Too bad more people weren't smart enough to see it.

 

[Claudette]

Yup. The incompetent and the lazy and they make the same money that the competent and go getter make.

I've worked in two union situations. In fact the last one the Union didn't defend me or my cohorts at all. Why?? Because we were junior on the seniority list and the fellow union members who were after out jobs, which we did quite well by the way, because we were working and they weren't. Seniorty is all. Doesn't matter if you have the intelligence of a box of rocks if your senior its all your way.

The company, James River, spent half a mil training us to do our jobs. We all had bids because it was production work and no senior union member wanted the jobs because you had to work for 8 hours. Fancy that.

All these senior guys were in the labor pool. They go assigned a job in the morning and then spent the rest of the day fucking off in the mill. Hiding in other words because God forbid anyone actually assign em another job.

The company had been telling these guys to take a bid because they were reducing the labor pool. Of course no one took a bid. the labor pool was tit and who in their right mind wants to work for 8 hours?? Anyway. The company vastly reduced the labor pool. The only guys left in it had 20-30 years seniority. Oh Oh. Now what do we do. We have lost our jobs. Of course we complain to the union and guess what. The union member filed a grievance because us little union members were working and they weren't. Yup. The Union sure looked out for us big time. Seniority is all even if the senior members are a bunch of lazy fucks.

The company fought it but knew they were gonna lose in arbitrations so then we had to train our replacements. Believe me. They would have rather kept us because we did the job and got the product out.

Moral of the story? Doesn't matter how well you do your job in a union situtation. If a senior member wants your job. Dont' expect the Union to defend your little ass because they won't. Seniority is all.

I have no use for Unions private or public. They had a place back in the day and now hinder more than they help.

Thanks for your contribution. But let me ask you something. Why do you think they "hinder more than they help?" What was it they used to do that they don't do now?

They give you a false sense of your true worth in the job market by seeing to it that you're overpaid.

Overpayed?? Not hardly. The crews I worked with, the people with only 3 or 4 yrs of seniority, put the work out dude. Production work is just that. Production. We earned our money.

The same can't be said for the fuckoffs in the labor pool.

 

[Moonglow]

Lisa Wexler: Admit It, You'd Like to Be in a Union Too

Blaming unions for all the trouble we are in has become cool. We hear that public sector employees have juicy benefits, great health care coverage, guaranteed pensions. In some cases, the average public sector worker earns twice what the average private sector worker earns. We are envious -- hey, we want that too! That's not fair!

You are right -- it's not fair. But don't blame the unions for doing their job, ensuring that thousands of people are able to afford retirement, pay their doctors and work in decent, sanitary conditions. Those people buy the houses you sell them, take their clothes to your dry cleaners, support your hardware store, clothing store and bank. The problem is not that union workers earn too much, it's that the rest of us are earning too little.

Look at the facts and see what's really not fair. Right now, the top 1 percent of the wealthy own 42 percent of the nation's wealth. And a staggering 80 percent of the rest of us only control 7 percent of the nation's property! The share of the middle class pie has shrunk to negligible proportions, with huge consequences for the future of America. Are the unions responsible for the greediness of the upper class? Absolutely not. In fact, they stood as one of the only bulwarks against it.

And rightwingers keep arguing against the unions, dumb ass lemmings falling off the facktard cliff.

twenty years ago the public worker earned less than the average worker and had little in benefits, so the collective bargaining was good for public employees. I know you hate the idea of representation of a workforce but it was necessary.

 

[Flaylo]

So if a union negotiated a salary increase for union workers that excluded you right wing dumbfucks and left you all earning less you would all be ok with this? I smell bullshit.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Have you ever heard of "at will" employment? Meaning a company can fire you for no reason. The At will employment option is an option that exists so that even if you are producing, a hard worker etc etc they can fire you for no expressed reason. I agree companies should fire unproductive workers but to paint all union employees of being "overpaid, lazy, mindless moochers" takes a big ass brush and at will employment shows that you can be productive and all that and a company can (and I know you guys will say they should) fire you for no reason.

 

[peach174]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the average wage and benefit package of your frito banditos is significantly less than the same from the very union you avoided.

They always have to have an insult in there somewhere don't they?
I actually made a good living.
I paid for my own apt.,my food and paid for my own Dr. check ups. Had plenty left over for fun on the weekends.
I had every Wed. off and the Dentist paid for my Dental uniforms.When the law required us to be certified for taking x-rays he paid for that too.

 

[Flaylo]

Have you ever heard of "at will" employment? Meaning a company can fire you for no reason. The At will employment option is an option that exists so that even if you are producing, a hard worker etc etc they can fire you for no expressed reason. I agree companies should fire unproductive workers but to paint all union employees of being "overpaid, lazy, mindless moochers" takes a big ass brush and at will employment shows that you can be productive and all that and a company can (and I know you guys will say they should) fire you for no reason.

I've mentioned the fire at will argument to these right wing dumbasses and they think its ok for a boss to fire anyone at will because its they are the boss and it is their company, if they want their employment to be subject to the roll of a dice that's their business but slamming unions based off bullshit arguments about a handful of lazy people who benefit from it and abuse it? The fact that the business owners have and own more of the wealth is enough of an argument to prove who abuses who more.

 

[FJO]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the average wage and benefit package of your frito banditos is significantly less than the same from the very union you avoided.

You may win that bet, but at least he/she has the satisfaction and pride that whatever he/she has was EARNED.

Now, there is a word totally alien and non-existent in union members' vocabulary.

 

[Mr Natural]

I've never been a union member. But I spent a good part of my career with a large British information technolgy company that had what they called a Guild. And whenver the Guild got a bump of some kind, we so called professional stafffers also got a nice bump.

It was the best of both worlds.

 

[Claudette]

So if a union negotiated a salary increase for union workers that excluded you right wing dumbfucks and left you all earning less you would all be ok with this? I smell bullshit.

If it excluded the unproductive lazy fucks it would have my endorsment. How bout yours? LOL

 

[DiamondDave]

Worth repeating

Why would I want my efforts that are above and beyond lumped in to a group filled with a bunch of people who skirt by? I want my efforts to stand on their own, positive or negative. I am smart enough to work on my weaknesses, expand my strengths, and advance myself in order to demand my own compensation merit increases, promotions, etc.. Or to look around and find another place that will reward my abilities more

Oh.. and Fail-O... when's that egress date again???

 

[Shogun]

The Union tried to force Dental Assistants to join a union in the 1970's here in Arizona.
We all got together and fought it. We won. I had never experienced such communistic attitudes in my young life till they tried to do this to us.
They tried to force us to join when we did not want it.
The majority of us did not want to pay union dues that went for political people we did not support.
We also knew that we would be under the forced rules of the union and that we would lose our freedom to be able to manage our hours and our pay raises ourselves.
We the individual Dental Assistants, did it by ourselves and worked to get raises on our own work ethics. When you do a good job, you get a raise. Unions discourage this and eliminate it. They take over.
All of us were in our 20's and we all recognized it for what it was, union thugs.
The idea that, they the unions, were the only ones who could do this for us, was repulsive and insulting to us.

I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the average wage and benefit package of your frito banditos is significantly less than the same from the very union you avoided.

They always have to have an insult in there somewhere don't they?
I actually made a good living.
I paid for my own apt.,my food and paid for my own Dr. check ups. Had plenty left over for fun on the weekends.
I had every Wed. off and the Dentist paid for my Dental uniforms.When the law required us to be certified for taking x-rays he paid for that too.

making a "good living" is entirely relative. Personally, you can probably acclimate to living off of poverty level wages.

But again, I'd bet jacks, joes and dominoes that the average wage and benefit package that you've accepted falls well below that of the same which was the product of your spurned union.

You can answer or not. I'm pretty sure we both know the answer. And, unfortunately, not everyone can afford to be as cavalier with their income as you have been.

 

[Claudette]

Worth repeating

Why would I want my efforts that are above and beyond lumped in to a group filled with a bunch of people who skirt by? I want my efforts to stand on their own, positive or negative. I am smart enough to work on my weaknesses, expand my strengths, and advance myself in order to demand my own compensation merit increases, promotions, etc.. Or to look around and find another place that will reward my abilities more

Oh.. and Fail-O... when's that egress date again???

LOL Don't hold your breath. Fail&go likes it here. He gets to throw bullshit.

 

[Flaylo]

So if a union negotiated a salary increase for union workers that excluded you right wing dumbfucks and left you all earning less you would all be ok with this? I smell bullshit.

If it excluded the unproductive lazy fucks it would have my endorsment. How bout yours? LOL

You didn't answer my question dumbfuck, and don't give me that party line bullshit about all or even most union workers being lazy, get the fuck out of here. Would you be ok if a union negotiated a better salary for its members? Would you be ok with earning less and being batshit proud of being nonunion? I know you wouldn't, you be talking the same bullshit you talk now about unfairness, if you truly didn't give a fuck you wouldn't complain about unions anyways, you'd mind your own fucking business.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Have you ever heard of "at will" employment? Meaning a company can fire you for no reason. The At will employment option is an option that exists so that even if you are producing, a hard worker etc etc they can fire you for no expressed reason. I agree companies should fire unproductive workers but to paint all union employees of being "overpaid, lazy, mindless moochers" takes a big ass brush and at will employment shows that you can be productive and all that and a company can (and I know you guys will say they should) fire you for no reason.

I've mentioned the fire at will argument to these right wing dumbasses and they think its ok for a boss to fire anyone at will because its they are the boss and it is their company, if they want their employment to be subject to the roll of a dice that's their business but slamming unions based off bullshit arguments about a handful of lazy people who benefit from it and abuse it? The fact that the business owners have and own more of the wealth is enough of an argument to prove who abuses who more.

It's like their entire hatred is based off of exceptions. "I saw a story about a bus driver making $200k! END THE UNIONS!"

It's like what? Wouldnt firing that person be a better course of action? Why do we have to throw out the baby with the bathwater? Employees wages have stagnated ALL OVER and it's not because Americans dont work hard, or they dont educate themselves or any other personal attributes that is hard to measure so it's an easy false argument to make. It's because the standard of living is getting higher and Repub pretend that if more people work harder companies will suddenly hand out raises. At will employment shows that no matter what you do a company can (and I know people will say they should) fire anyone for any reason. At will wouldnt exist if it was all about performance.

 

[Flaylo]

Worth repeating

Why would I want my efforts that are above and beyond lumped in to a group filled with a bunch of people who skirt by? I want my efforts to stand on their own, positive or negative. I am smart enough to work on my weaknesses, expand my strengths, and advance myself in order to demand my own compensation merit increases, promotions, etc.. Or to look around and find another place that will reward my abilities more

Oh.. and Fail-O... when's that egress date again???

Your dumbass has no argument than to paint all unions and union workers as fucked up, rightwing thinking is fucked up.

 

[Claudette]

So if a union negotiated a salary increase for union workers that excluded you right wing dumbfucks and left you all earning less you would all be ok with this? I smell bullshit.

If it excluded the unproductive lazy fucks it would have my endorsment. How bout yours? LOL

You didn't answer my question dumbfuck, and don't give me that party line bullshit about all or even most union workers being lazy, get the fuck out of here. Would you be ok if a union negotiated a better salary for its members? Would you be ok with earning less and being batshit proud of being nonunion? I know you wouldn't, you be talking the same bullshit you talk now about unfairness, if you truly didn't give a fuck you wouldn't complain about unions anyways, you'd mind your own fucking business.

Apparantly you can't read.

"If it excluded the unproductive lazy fucks IT WOULD GET MY ENDORSEMENT. Hope that clears it up for you dumbass.

You might want to mind your own fucking business as well. Whens the last time you worked for a union you asshole??

 

[peach174]

I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the average wage and benefit package of your frito banditos is significantly less than the same from the very union you avoided.

They always have to have an insult in there somewhere don't they?
I actually made a good living.
I paid for my own apt.,my food and paid for my own Dr. check ups. Had plenty left over for fun on the weekends.
I had every Wed. off and the Dentist paid for my Dental uniforms.When the law required us to be certified for taking x-rays he paid for that too.

making a "good living" is entirely relative. Personally, you can probably acclimate to living off of poverty level wages.

But again, I'd bet jacks, joes and dominoes that the average wage and benefit package that you've accepted falls well below that of the same which was the product of your spurned union.

You can answer or not. I'm pretty sure we both know the answer. And, unfortunately, not everyone can afford to be as cavalier with their income as you have been.

Cavalier? Wanting freedom is not cavalier.
They tried to force us to join. What part of force don't you get?

I was not living in poverty at all,and it was not an average wage.
I stared out with average wage right after I got out of Dental school. My first year of working I got a raise to a very decent salary. And continued to get raises about every two years.
It was me doing a good job that got my wage increase.
How many union workers get 3 working days off? Several, same as what I had without them.
How many union workers get the cloths that they have to wear paid for? Several, same as I had without the union.

 

[Flaylo]

If you want the benefits of being in a union and argue against unions you're a fucking hypocrite, if a union negotiated more money for the workers and left out you non union asswipes you would feel left out, thats why rightwing fucktards are attacking unions because of the envy of not having what they have, not because union workers are all lazy because you fucktards don't know that.