ACLU finally wakes up?

[whitehall]

Geez, I thought unrestricted displays of Christian belief were the greatest threat to "civil liberties". At least that's what it seemed to be under thousands of ACLU "separation/church/state" law suits. Don't tell me that the ACLU cares about government abuses under democrat administrations. Maybe it's just a political ploy by those bearded tweedy a-holes.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Hey, I applaud the ACLU on this one. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they "have woken up". They have taken an anti-religious tone in the past decade or so.

How so?

Link?

 

[jwoodie]

Separation of Church and state, Christmas is a religious holiday, some times the constitution gets in the way of what some people want. ACLU stands up against both religious expression by the government and government spying on the people.

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

The core tenet of any religion is the identification of a supreme being or intelligence in the universe. Atheists believe human beings fit this description. Protest all you want but, if this is not the case, please specify a being superior to humans that Atheists believe in.

I'm waiting...

 

[noose4]

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

The core tenet of any religion is the identification of a supreme being or intelligence in the universe. Atheists believe human beings fit this description. Protest all you want but, if this is not the case, please specify a being superior to humans that Atheists believe in.

I'm waiting...

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a higher power regardless of your made up definition of what it is, and if they believed human beings fit the description of supreme beings then how would they explain how so many human beings can believe in such supernatural silliness?

 

[hortysir]

Separation of Church and state, Christmas is a religious holiday, some times the constitution gets in the way of what some people want. ACLU stands up against both religious expression by the government and government spying on the people.

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show me that amendment.

All I can manage to remember is "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the Establishment of Religion OR the Free Exercise Thereof"




To the point of the OP?
I'm with Whitehall on this one.
There's been some very questionable things that the ACLU has stuck their nose into but, as much as it pains me to do so, I find myself rooting for their success in this case.

 

[noose4]

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show me that amendment.

All I can manage to remember is "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the Establishment of Religion OR the Free Exercise Thereof"




To the point of the OP?
I'm with Whitehall on this one.
There's been some very questionable things that the ACLU has stuck their nose into but, as much as it pains me to do so, I find myself rooting for their success in this case.

Endorsing a religion is a way of establishing one.

 

[flacaltenn]

The ACLU does not represent gun rights - they never have to my knowledge.
Kiwiman can you show any evidence that the ACLU has been involved with guns? (the second amendment rights of the individual to keep and bear arms)

From what I'm hearing from within the established political circles, the ACLU is going to finally declare itself in favor of the 2nd Amendment quite soon (2-4 years), especially if tyranny itself continues to spread like a pandemic.

The people at the ALCU fully understand what the 2nd Amendment is designed for. Notice they've never taken a stand AGAINST it.

That's not the only Amendment the ACLU ignores. Like in the 9th and 10th.. But bigger picture, the reason I support Institute for Justice instead, is that our rights are not just enumerated by the Fed Govt or the Bill of Rights. The entire Constitution needs protection. And all those rights that the Fed Govt has no power over that are NOT in the Bill of Rights that are trampled by little pot-bellied LOCAL and STATE tyrants..

That statement (about our rights not being enumerated) alone will blow the minds of 6 USMB leftists who think our rights are indeed enumerated. Probably HUGE ACLU fans too...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show me that amendment.

All I can manage to remember is "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the Establishment of Religion OR the Free Exercise Thereof"




To the point of the OP?
I'm with Whitehall on this one.
There's been some very questionable things that the ACLU has stuck their nose into but, as much as it pains me to do so, I find myself rooting for their success in this case.

If you value your ow Constitution, you root for them on every case.

Believe me, there have been many times when I hated having to root for them but if I root for my own Constitution, I have no choice.

 

[flacaltenn]

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show me that amendment.

All I can manage to remember is "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding the Establishment of Religion OR the Free Exercise Thereof"




To the point of the OP?
I'm with Whitehall on this one.
There's been some very questionable things that the ACLU has stuck their nose into but, as much as it pains me to do so, I find myself rooting for their success in this case.

If you value your ow Constitution, you root for them on every case.

Believe me, there have been many times when I hated having to root for them but if I root for my own Constitution, I have no choice.

Sure you have a choice.. Would you subscribe to a newspaper that decides not to cover the sports, weather or comics? (i threw in the latter in an attempt to connect with you).

There are many choices of institutions protecting your rights and taking LESS than just the most publicized cases. It not what they TAKE ON, but what they purposely ignore that matters here..

 

[jwoodie]

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

The core tenet of any religion is the identification of a supreme being or intelligence in the universe. Atheists believe human beings fit this description. Protest all you want but, if this is not the case, please specify a being superior to humans that Atheists believe in.

I'm waiting...

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a higher power regardless of your made up definition of what it is, and if they believed human beings fit the description of supreme beings then how would they explain how so many human beings can believe in such supernatural silliness?

Nice word mincing, but you get an "F" in logic. You either believe in a "higher power" or you don't. If you don't, then you believe that human beings are (or equal to) the highest power (i.e., God). Modernly, only A CLUeless Atheist or Muslim wants to ban all displays not in agreement with their own beliefs.

 

[Wake]

ACLU has always represented and defended what the Constitution stands for, those who see the ACLU as any thing else are on the opposite side of the Constitution regarding an issue it is defending.

With all due respect that sounds like a false dilemma. What you appear to be arguing is that either you view the ACLU in a positive light and are therefore on the 'right side' of the Constitution, or if you see it as anything else you're on the 'wrong' side. Arguably there's quite a bit of wiggle-room in between.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For the last 10 years the ACLU has been vigilant and concerned that some kid might sneak into school with a Bible in his hand while the secret FISA court has approved 98% of secret surveillance by the NSA and other covert arms of the federal government. The ACLU didn't wake up until the story broke. Maybe it's time to get the priorities straight and realize that the modern version of "separation of church and state" might not be the biggest threat to the Country.

You really should do a cursory search before you post something stupid like this. The ACLU has filed dozens of law suits about this, and they have all been thrown out because the government wouldn't admit the program existed. Since it was secret, and no one could prove they were a victim of it, no one had standing.

 

[whitehall]

I'm not going to argue about the modern version of separation/church/state which came about when a supreme court justice who happened to be a former KKK member wrote the majority opinion. The point is that the ACLU spent about half a century saving Americans from the potential civil liberties danger of a kid whispering a silent prayer in school while the freaking Country is going to hell under real civil liberty abuses from the federal government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

ACLU has always represented and defended what the Constitution stands for, those who see the ACLU as any thing else are on the opposite side of the Constitution regarding an issue it is defending.

I am willing to bet that I can find a lawsuit the ACLU filed that you would say was wrong, does that make you against the constitution, or does it just mean you said something really stupid?

 

[boedicca]

Separation of Church and state, Christmas is a religious holiday, some times the constitution gets in the way of what some people want. ACLU stands up against both religious expression by the government and government spying on the people.

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

That's not what separation of Church and State means. The Constitution prohibits ESTABLISHMENT of a religion. An individual or group's public expression of a religion is not the establishment of a state religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The ACLU hsn't changed. They are still doing what they always have. They are completely non-partisan in their rabid and absolute defense of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We may disagree on an emotional level, but the facts never change.

Tell me something, how is it possible for any group of people who have strong principles to be completely non partisan?

The ACLU is decidedly partisan, and it should be. It is partisan in that it supports liberal ideology, and proudly holds to that tradition. I am happy that they are, and you should be too.

Unless you can show me an equal number of cases where the ACLU decided to come in on the side of the state being able ignore rights you really should stop arguing that it is non partisan, and be glad that they are.

 

[noose4]

ACLU has always represented and defended what the Constitution stands for, those who see the ACLU as any thing else are on the opposite side of the Constitution regarding an issue it is defending.

I am willing to bet that I can find a lawsuit the ACLU filed that you would say was wrong, does that make you against the constitution, or does it just mean you said something really stupid?

If the ACLU was involved it was involved on the side of the Constitution but I will accept your challenge

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The ACLU does not represent gun rights - they never have to my knowledge.
Kiwiman can you show any evidence that the ACLU has been involved with guns? (the second amendment rights of the individual to keep and bear arms)

From what I'm hearing from within the established political circles, the ACLU is going to finally declare itself in favor of the 2nd Amendment quite soon (2-4 years), especially if tyranny itself continues to spread like a pandemic.

The people at the ALCU fully understand what the 2nd Amendment is designed for. Notice they've never taken a stand AGAINST it.

Find any amendment they have taken a stand against.

People are missing the point here.

The ACLU will never "take a stand against" any part of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights because, they have only one purpose - to defend it. Period. End of discussion.

They are not right of left, not liberal and not conservative and you will never see them do anything that is.

I see the problem now, you think there are liberals that are against the Constitution, that would be progressives, not liberals.

 

[noose4]

No. the ACLU represents the religion of Atheism, which cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. Why is it that most other religious groups are not "offended" by these displays/holidays?

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

That's not what separation of Church and State means. The Constitution prohibits ESTABLISHMENT of a religion. An individual or group's public expression of a religion is not the establishment of a state religion.

It is when that expression takes place on public(government) land, government sanction of religion is prohibited and displays of religious nature on public property is advocating religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Atheism is not a religion, and separation of Church and state means government can not endorse religion which it does when putting up religious displays during religious holidays.

The core tenet of any religion is the identification of a supreme being or intelligence in the universe. Atheists believe human beings fit this description. Protest all you want but, if this is not the case, please specify a being superior to humans that Atheists believe in.

I'm waiting...

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a higher power regardless of your made up definition of what it is, and if they believed human beings fit the description of supreme beings then how would they explain how so many human beings can believe in such supernatural silliness?

That is agnosticism, atheism is the belief that there is no god. It is an active belief, not a lack thereof.

Atheism | Define Atheism at Dictionary.com

Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary