ACLU files suit on Arizona law

[boedicca]

I'm betting that TM hasn't read it, just like Holder and Napolitano haven't even though they are spouting off about how bad it is.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

I'm betting that TM hasn't read it, just like Holder and Napolitano haven't even though they are spouting off about how bad it is.

What a bunch of flakes. ~BH

 

[Political Junky]

Arrest those who employ illiegals. The problem will be solved.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Arrest those who employ illiegals. The problem will be solved.

Exactly. Felony prosecution for anyone who hires them. ~BH

 

[hboats]

Arrest those who employ illiegals. The problem will be solved.

It's not as easy as all that. Do you think that illegal immigrants don't use fake papers to gain employment? An employer HAS to have some protection against falsified papers. They can do all the right things according to law, but if an illegal immigrant used fake identification with a fake social security number they will pass the employers examination.

You can't just make a blanket statement like that.

Rick

 

[Liability]

Arrest those who employ illiegals. The problem will be solved.

It's not as easy as all that. Do you think that illegal immigrants don't use fake papers to gain employment? An employer HAS to have some protection against falsified papers. They can do all the right things according to law, but if an illegal immigrant used fake identification with a fake social security number they will pass the employers examination.

You can't just make a blanket statement like that.

Rick

It's not easy. But that's not a valid reason not to go about the business of DE-incentivizing the hiring of illegals.

Prosecute those who fail to obtain verifiable documentation of an alien's legal status to be here and to work here. ANY such prosecution will come with a variety of defenses. If the employer HAS a valid defense along the lines of "those papers seemed perfectly genuine to ME" then the prosecution can either be aborted or the employer can get acquitted. And there's no good reason why those here legally cannot be issued documentation (which they ought to be more than happy to provide to prospective employers) which can be used to check with the Immigration authorities.

If the aliens seeking employment are here legally and got issued valid immigration papers and work authorizations, then their papers should "check out" with ICE. And it should be simplified so that the employer can use the official government certification to justify any hiring of any alien without fear of prosecution. OTHERWISE, they should NOT hire the illegal aliens. End of story.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just like i would be stopped in arizona this man has been stopped twice.

Stop pretending only illegal aliens will be effected by the law.

What's the first thing an officer asks for when you're stopped for a traffic violation ? ...

"a Latino citizen studying at Arizona State University, whose New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted as proof of citizenship under the law;"

you have some severe comprehension problems huh?

I could swear I already asked where he gets the idea it wouldn't be accepted.

You have some severe comprehension problems, huh?

 

[Cecilie1200]

"a Latino citizen studying at Arizona State University, whose New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted as proof of citizenship under the law;"

you have some severe comprehension problems huh?

Why do you think a New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted, genius ?

Hint: The leftist idiots you support caused the problem ......

Does New Mexico issue driver's license to illegals perhaps? Slimeball turknocker dante negged me.. did he neg you too??

My understanding, from their own DMV website, is that New Mexico DOES require proof of identity AND proof of residency to issue a driver's license, generally an ID from another state or a birth certificate and something to prove where you're currently residing. Could that be bypassed by a determined illegal? I'm sure, but then, so could most states' requirements. I can't find anything saying they're just handing them out like party favors.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ravi:

That's hardly the case.

We are supporting states not debasing their Driver's Licenses by handing them out willy nilly with no proof of legal residency required.

I thought they proved legal residency. If they live in an apt and pay rent, there is proof of legal residency for the purposes of a state driver's license. A state driver's license is NOT a federal issue.


If you want a national ID and want to hand over state rights do so. Start an amendment process giving the federal government say over state laws.

New Mexico DOES NOT REQUIRE PROOF OF LEGAL RESIDENCY for someone to get a driver's license. It renders the document worthless to prove legal residency.

Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Oregon, Utah and Washington have the same problem - so their state driver's licenses have the same issue.

Wanting states to verify legal residency prior to issuing and ID in no way resembles or denotes support for a National ID Card.

NM New Mexico dmv department of motor vehicles

To get a non-commercial driver license, you will need to bring the following documents to any MVD Field Office:
- One (1) proof of identification number, and
- One (1) proof of identity, and
- Two (2) proofs of New Mexico residency.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"a Latino citizen studying at Arizona State University, whose New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted as proof of citizenship under the law"

Keep repeating that, then ask why the officer didn't accept it. There is always two sides to every story. And this who;le case sounds like a story.

"and a Jamaican immigrant, who fears police will not believe the photocopy of a judge's order that he be allowed to stay in the country, the only paperwork he has that gives him legal status here."

Now I'm not an immigration expert but I believe you need more than a photocopy of some judicial order to be in the USA. Like a passport with a Visa, or maybe a greencard, how about a student Visa.............

And even if they WERE going to accept a judge's order, they're not going to accept a photocopy. Why doesn't he have an original of it, if it's valid?

 

[Ravi]

Why do you think a New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted, genius ?

Hint: The leftist idiots you support caused the problem ......

Does New Mexico issue driver's license to illegals perhaps? Slimeball turknocker dante negged me.. did he neg you too??

My understanding, from their own DMV website, is that New Mexico DOES require proof of identity AND proof of residency to issue a driver's license, generally an ID from another state or a birth certificate and something to prove where you're currently residing. Could that be bypassed by a determined illegal? I'm sure, but then, so could most states' requirements. I can't find anything saying they're just handing them out like party favors.

Another reason this law is so stupid. The people that will be be hassled the most are innocent people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What's the first thing an officer asks for when you're stopped for a traffic violation ? ...

Because you are driving. What's the first thing an officer asks a passenger?

Hate to break it to you but at a traffic stop an officer can and will ask passengers for ID. It is legal and it is accepted practice in all 50 States.

Yup. I've been asked for ID while riding in a car that's been involved in a traffic stop. The cop said she liked to know exactly who all she was dealing with. Seems reasonable to ME, since she's putting her life on the line every time she stops someone.

But then, I don't view the police as hostile enemies, so I don't mind cooperating with them and making their jobs a little easier. Go figure.

 

[chanel]

Was the student with the NM license trying to get in state tuition? What other documents did he have? You need a birth certificate to register for Kindergarten. You need one for a license. You need one to register for Little League. It costs 5 bucks for a certified copy. Why didn't he have one? Sounds awfully fishy to me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Under this law they can ask for papers of anyone they speak to.

You ask a person walking by if they saw anything to do with a crime they are investigating and boom they are asked for their papers.

That means wittnesses wont hang arround to be questioned because they are not carring their "papers' today and may spend time in the Immigration station if they hang arround.

Crime is going to be harder to solve and people get harrassed for looking brown.

Its a fucked up law period.

Complete bullshit. That's not what the law says, and that's been clarified for you a dozen times already.

 

[boedicca]

Why do you think a New Mexico driver's license would not be accepted, genius ?

Hint: The leftist idiots you support caused the problem ......

Does New Mexico issue driver's license to illegals perhaps? Slimeball turknocker dante negged me.. did he neg you too??

My understanding, from their own DMV website, is that New Mexico DOES require proof of identity AND proof of residency to issue a driver's license, generally an ID from another state or a birth certificate and something to prove where you're currently residing. Could that be bypassed by a determined illegal? I'm sure, but then, so could most states' requirements. I can't find anything saying they're just handing them out like party favors.

I covered this in post #71.

From the NM website, an individual needs to provide two documents showing residency, which includes things like utility bills and proof of a child's enrollment in school. Several of the acceptable documents do not prove legal residency, just physical residency.

NM also specifies that it a Non-U.S. Passport or Matrícula Consular Card (issues by a Mexican consular office) as a form of ID. Neither of these prove that the individual is in the U.S. legally.

 

[Liability]

Does New Mexico issue driver's license to illegals perhaps? Slimeball turknocker dante negged me.. did he neg you too??

My understanding, from their own DMV website, is that New Mexico DOES require proof of identity AND proof of residency to issue a driver's license, generally an ID from another state or a birth certificate and something to prove where you're currently residing. Could that be bypassed by a determined illegal? I'm sure, but then, so could most states' requirements. I can't find anything saying they're just handing them out like party favors.

Another reason this law is so stupid. The people that will be be hassled the most are innocent people.

Nonsense.

The those here legally will have no real problems.

The only meaningful effect will be on those here illegally.

And that's the thing that has the irrational liberoidal types all hot and bothered.

The fact is that you libbies WANT illegals to be free to come here and, once here illegally though it may be, to be permitted to stay here. Any opposition to your crazy preferences get falsely labeled as "racist."

Tough. Your views are absurd.

We have every fucking reasonable right to limit entry into this country. Those wishing to come here from outside should feel absolutely obligated to comply with our rules and procedures, especially if they seek citizenship, asylum or work. They have ZERO right to jump the line over those who comply with all the myriad of difficult rules, laws and regulations. And those who try to bypass the rules, laws and regulations SHOULD feel DAMN insecure about their tenuous grasp on being here.

If we, as a society, wish to address the issue of immigration quotas to make our borders more open to legal admission, that is a perfectly reasonable discussion. But I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing folks whine that we are somehow allegedly "racist" for believing that our immigration laws and rules and regulations should be adhered to and enforced.

For those who come here illegally and stay here illegally, for the most part, my national welcome mat says "GET THE FUCK OUT."

For those who bother to comply with our laws, rules and regulations, the welcome mat says something very different. It then says, oddly enough, "Welcome."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Arrest those who employ illiegals. The problem will be solved.

It's not as easy as all that. Do you think that illegal immigrants don't use fake papers to gain employment? An employer HAS to have some protection against falsified papers. They can do all the right things according to law, but if an illegal immigrant used fake identification with a fake social security number they will pass the employers examination.

You can't just make a blanket statement like that.

Rick

He also seems to think that all illegals are employed, or are coming here to be employed. But one of the biggest motivations for this law, which seems incomprehensible to leftists snug in their mostly-white northern states, is the excessive amount of crime attributable to illegal immigrants, as well as the enormous drain they put on our social services here. Employers of illegals are dealt with in the bill, but that's only part of the problem, and not even the biggest part.

 

[Ravi]

My understanding, from their own DMV website, is that New Mexico DOES require proof of identity AND proof of residency to issue a driver's license, generally an ID from another state or a birth certificate and something to prove where you're currently residing. Could that be bypassed by a determined illegal? I'm sure, but then, so could most states' requirements. I can't find anything saying they're just handing them out like party favors.

Another reason this law is so stupid. The people that will be be hassled the most are innocent people.

Nonsense.

The those here legally will have no real problems.

The only meaningful effect will be on those here illegally.

And that's thee thing that has the irrational liberoidal types all hot and bothered.

The fact is that you libbies WANT illegals to be free to come here and, once here illegally though it may be, to be permitted to stay here. Any opposition to your crazy preferences get falsely labeled as "racist."

Tough. Your views are absurd.

We have every fucking reasonable right to limit entry into this country. Those wishing to come here from outside should feel absolutely obligated to comply with our rules and procedures, especially if they seek citizenship, asylum or work. They have ZERO right to jump the line over those who comply with all the myriad of difficult rules, laws and regulations. And those who try to bypass the rules, laws and regulations SHOULD feel DAMN insecure about their tenuous grasp on being here.

If we, as a society, wish to address the issue of immigration quotas to make our borders more open to legal admission, that is a perfectly reasonable discussion. But I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing folks whine that we are somehow allegedly "racist" for believing that our immigration laws and rules and regulations should be adhered to and enforced.

For those who come here illegally and stay here illegally, for the most part, my national welcome mat says "GET THE FUCK OUT."

For those who bother to comply with our laws, rules and regulations, the welcome mat says something very different. It then says, oddly enough, "Welcome."

You're talking about two different things. I'll ignore most of your post except to say that I do not support open borders and allowing people to come and go as they please...I also think we don't allow enough people to immigrate legally, which causes a lot of these problems.

But on the topic...forcing legitimate citizens to be prepared at all times while in public to prove that they are legitimate citizens is a burden that is IMO un-American and paranoid.

I am SICK of the paranoia of right wing loons and their enabling of the constant chipping away of our constitutional civil rights.

 

[boedicca]

How do protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws (that are less onerous than Mexico's equivalent btw) chip away at our constitutional rights?

 

[WillowTree]

Another reason this law is so stupid. The people that will be be hassled the most are innocent people.

Nonsense.

The those here legally will have no real problems.

The only meaningful effect will be on those here illegally.

And that's thee thing that has the irrational liberoidal types all hot and bothered.

The fact is that you libbies WANT illegals to be free to come here and, once here illegally though it may be, to be permitted to stay here. Any opposition to your crazy preferences get falsely labeled as "racist."

Tough. Your views are absurd.

We have every fucking reasonable right to limit entry into this country. Those wishing to come here from outside should feel absolutely obligated to comply with our rules and procedures, especially if they seek citizenship, asylum or work. They have ZERO right to jump the line over those who comply with all the myriad of difficult rules, laws and regulations. And those who try to bypass the rules, laws and regulations SHOULD feel DAMN insecure about their tenuous grasp on being here.

If we, as a society, wish to address the issue of immigration quotas to make our borders more open to legal admission, that is a perfectly reasonable discussion. But I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing folks whine that we are somehow allegedly "racist" for believing that our immigration laws and rules and regulations should be adhered to and enforced.

For those who come here illegally and stay here illegally, for the most part, my national welcome mat says "GET THE FUCK OUT."

For those who bother to comply with our laws, rules and regulations, the welcome mat says something very different. It then says, oddly enough, "Welcome."

You're talking about two different things. I'll ignore most of your post except to say that I do not support open borders and allowing people to come and go as they please...I also think we don't allow enough people to immigrate legally, which causes a lot of these problems.

But on the topic...forcing legitimate citizens to be prepared at all times while in public to prove that they are legitimate citizens is a burden that is IMO un-American and paranoid.

I am SICK of the paranoia of right wing loons and their enabling of the constant chipping away of our constitutional civil rights.

Yes, you most certainly do support open borders. If you and the aclu prevent all attempts at identifying who is here legally then that says you do in fact support open borders and no country. how do you know we don't have enough immigrants?? cause the DUmmies tell you so?? we have what?? a ten percent unemployment rate now and you DUmmies want more under educated homeless, job seeking immigrants?? makes no sense. yes you do want open borders you most certainly do.