ACA 2.0 Begins Tomorrow.

[LoneLaugher]

Zander is a multi-millionaire and he does not have health insurance. Cool.

That other dude is invincible. He's also wealthy and does not have health insurance. Cool.

If by the other dude you meant me, I am not wealthy. Nor do I play the role on the internet of a CEO with a Fortune 500 company and a trophy wife and an executive yacht.

Because I'm not wealthy, I choose not to pay $hundreds$ a month for something I don't need. Yes, I have good genes. I have no allergies. I have no vision problems. But, you know what, I'm sure there's a doctor somewhere that would find some drugs to put me on, or some procedures to perform on me. A doctor's diagnosis is wrong almost 40% of the time, anyway. Over 700,000 people get a gnarly infection from a hospital per year. And the most common reason for a doctor's visit in America (by far) is to seek treatment for the common cold. In many ways, if you think about it, there's too much health care in the US.

The more we learn about health, the more we discover the role of the mind over health. So many illnesses stem from psychosomatic roots. I tell myself that I no longer get colds or the flu, and I believe myself when I tell myself that, and guess what? I don't get colds or the flu. It's been 15 years since I had more than some morning sniffles. I can finish the backwash from the bottom of a glass of water from a flu victim, and I won't get sick. So yes, an attitude of invulnerability can have a real positive effect on health outcomes.

You're part of the problem, and the rest of us are having to pay for people like you.

What are you going to do if you have a car wreck and the hospital bill is $100,000.

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

Good luck, pal.

Don't sweat it. We'll be here for you when you need us. It the right thing to do.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Zander is a multi-millionaire and he does not have health insurance. Cool.

That other dude is invincible. He's also wealthy and does not have health insurance. Cool.

If by the other dude you meant me, I am not wealthy. Nor do I play the role on the internet of a CEO with a Fortune 500 company and a trophy wife and an executive yacht.

Because I'm not wealthy, I choose not to pay $hundreds$ a month for something I don't need. Yes, I have good genes. I have no allergies. I have no vision problems. But, you know what, I'm sure there's a doctor somewhere that would find some drugs to put me on, or some procedures to perform on me. A doctor's diagnosis is wrong almost 40% of the time, anyway. Over 700,000 people get a gnarly infection from a hospital per year. And the most common reason for a doctor's visit in America (by far) is to seek treatment for the common cold. In many ways, if you think about it, there's too much health care in the US.

The more we learn about health, the more we discover the role of the mind over health. So many illnesses stem from psychosomatic roots. I tell myself that I no longer get colds or the flu, and I believe myself when I tell myself that, and guess what? I don't get colds or the flu. It's been 15 years since I had more than some morning sniffles. I can finish the backwash from the bottom of a glass of water from a flu victim, and I won't get sick. So yes, an attitude of invulnerability can have a real positive effect on health outcomes.

You're part of the problem, and the rest of us are having to pay for people like you.

What are you going to do if you have a car wreck and the hospital bill is $100,000.

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

It's irresponsible, and you're part of the problem.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Zander is a multi-millionaire and he does not have health insurance. Cool.

That other dude is invincible. He's also wealthy and does not have health insurance. Cool.

If by the other dude you meant me, I am not wealthy. Nor do I play the role on the internet of a CEO with a Fortune 500 company and a trophy wife and an executive yacht.

Because I'm not wealthy, I choose not to pay $hundreds$ a month for something I don't need. Yes, I have good genes. I have no allergies. I have no vision problems. But, you know what, I'm sure there's a doctor somewhere that would find some drugs to put me on, or some procedures to perform on me. A doctor's diagnosis is wrong almost 40% of the time, anyway. Over 700,000 people get a gnarly infection from a hospital per year. And the most common reason for a doctor's visit in America (by far) is to seek treatment for the common cold. In many ways, if you think about it, there's too much health care in the US.

The more we learn about health, the more we discover the role of the mind over health. So many illnesses stem from psychosomatic roots. I tell myself that I no longer get colds or the flu, and I believe myself when I tell myself that, and guess what? I don't get colds or the flu. It's been 15 years since I had more than some morning sniffles. I can finish the backwash from the bottom of a glass of water from a flu victim, and I won't get sick. So yes, an attitude of invulnerability can have a real positive effect on health outcomes.

You're part of the problem, and the rest of us are having to pay for people like you.

What are you going to do if you have a car wreck and the hospital bill is $100,000.

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

 

[Zander]

Lib/prog/commies expose their inner Facist whenever they try to rationalize the reasons YOU should be FORCED to buy overpriced health insurance.

Remember......It's for the greater good!! You didn't build that!! Businesses don't create jobs!! It takes a village!!

 

[Treeshepherd]

Actually if I was on ObamaCare, then you would have to pay the bill. You might have to pay it in terms of your insurance company raising rates to account for my expensive treatment.

Because I am not insured, I would have to pay more than a standard co-pay, possibly via the forfeiture of assets. So, you're just plain wrong on that point. You as a rate payer and a taxpayer would pay more if my insurance had to cover the treatment, rather than my being uninsured and prone to asset seizure. One scenario, I pay a relatively small co-pay. The other scenario, my assets are seized and auctioned off. Hey, that's insurance. I don't do insurance. If you love it, you're free to buy it.

 

[Zander]

If by the other dude you meant me, I am not wealthy. Nor do I play the role on the internet of a CEO with a Fortune 500 company and a trophy wife and an executive yacht.

Because I'm not wealthy, I choose not to pay $hundreds$ a month for something I don't need. Yes, I have good genes. I have no allergies. I have no vision problems. But, you know what, I'm sure there's a doctor somewhere that would find some drugs to put me on, or some procedures to perform on me. A doctor's diagnosis is wrong almost 40% of the time, anyway. Over 700,000 people get a gnarly infection from a hospital per year. And the most common reason for a doctor's visit in America (by far) is to seek treatment for the common cold. In many ways, if you think about it, there's too much health care in the US.

The more we learn about health, the more we discover the role of the mind over health. So many illnesses stem from psychosomatic roots. I tell myself that I no longer get colds or the flu, and I believe myself when I tell myself that, and guess what? I don't get colds or the flu. It's been 15 years since I had more than some morning sniffles. I can finish the backwash from the bottom of a glass of water from a flu victim, and I won't get sick. So yes, an attitude of invulnerability can have a real positive effect on health outcomes.

You're part of the problem, and the rest of us are having to pay for people like you.

What are you going to do if you have a car wreck and the hospital bill is $100,000.

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

Sorry, but It's none of your business. If he can't afford to pay then he shouldn't get treatment (unless he can find a volunteer or find a DR willing to accept monthly payments).

 

[Carla_Danger]

Actually if I was on ObamaCare, then you would have to pay the bill. You might have to pay it in terms of your insurance company raising rates to account for my expensive treatment.

Because I am not insured, I would have to pay more than a standard co-pay, possibly via the forfeiture of assets. So, you're just plain wrong on that point. You as a rate payer and a taxpayer would pay more if my insurance had to cover the treatment, rather than my being uninsured and prone to asset seizure. One scenario, I pay a relatively small co-pay. The other scenario, my assets are seized and auctioned off. Hey, that's insurance. I don't do insurance. If you love it, you're free to buy it.

Holy cow, you're dumb.

 

[Carla_Danger]

You're part of the problem, and the rest of us are having to pay for people like you.

What are you going to do if you have a car wreck and the hospital bill is $100,000.

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

Sorry, but It's none of your business. If he can't afford to pay then he shouldn't get treatment (unless he can find a volunteer or find a DR willing to accept monthly payments).

So the hospital should let him die? If he's in a car wreck and can't talk, how's he gonna work out those payments? Gawd, you're dumb too!

 

[Greenbeard]

Does health insurance cost more or less since Obamacare was passed without a single Republican vote? It was going to lower the cost for all!! As Obama often reminded us: "WORDS MATTER".

I thought you wanted to talk about reality, not intentions or rhetoric. The reality is that pretty much every metric characterizing the health system has gotten better over the past five years. And that includes costs, which have been growing at virtually the lowest rate on record.

When it comes to insurance, premium growth for employer-based plans (which most privately insured people have) was the lowest in nearly two decades this year. Average premiums in the new marketplaces are basically flat going into next year.

As for how many are covered now that weren't before, the best estimates put the number at about 10 million.

And really, when this thing does take hold and everyone is caught in its web, who is to say what insurance companies will charge, or what the quality metrics will say, or what the burden will be on taxpayers when the burden of cost shifts to the states, or what the cost of the law will be after a massive expansion of Medicaid for the poor at the very time when Baby Boomers are going on Medicare by the thousands per day?

We've had plenty of predictions over the last five years what will happen. I'm just pointing out what has happened to date. Quality has improved, health care cost growth and health price inflation dropped to record lows, the deficit plummeted, the new spending called for under the law came in below projections, and 10 million people gained insurance.

 

[Zander]

You haven't paid anything for me. I've been to the doctor once since I was 17, and paid out of pocket.

What you would do if I got into a car wreck and had a $100,000 bill is the same as you would do with any Obamacare subscriber. You'd bleed me for everything I could pay and the government would pay the rest.

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

Sorry, but It's none of your business. If he can't afford to pay then he shouldn't get treatment (unless he can find a volunteer or find a DR willing to accept monthly payments).

So the hospital should let him die? Gawd, you're dumb too!

Sure. Why not? I don't work for free. Do you? Health care is a BUSINESS. Insurance is a BUSINESS.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Sorry. You are irresponsible and lacking common sense. Enjoy life.

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

Sorry, but It's none of your business. If he can't afford to pay then he shouldn't get treatment (unless he can find a volunteer or find a DR willing to accept monthly payments).

So the hospital should let him die? Gawd, you're dumb too!

Sure. Why not? I don't work for free. Do you? Health care is a BUSINESS. Insurance is a BUSINESS.

That's not the kind of country we live in. If you want to live in that sort of a country, you'll need to move to Afghanistan.

 

[Zander]

Maybe. But, I've saved $65,000 by not buying insurance for the last 27 years. Maybe a lot more. That aspect might appeal to someone with common sense.

And if an emergency happens, where you can't pay the high hospital bills, who do you think will? The rest of us will pay for you being irresponsible.

If you have two brain cells you can rub together, you should be able to understand that.

Sorry, but It's none of your business. If he can't afford to pay then he shouldn't get treatment (unless he can find a volunteer or find a DR willing to accept monthly payments).

So the hospital should let him die? Gawd, you're dumb too!

Sure. Why not? I don't work for free. Do you? Health care is a BUSINESS. Insurance is a BUSINESS.

That's not the kind of country we live in. If you want to live in that sort of a country, you'll need to move to Afghanistan.

Actions have consequences. If you choose to not have insurance and get sick- pay out of pocket or pray.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Actually if I was on ObamaCare, then you would have to pay the bill. You might have to pay it in terms of your insurance company raising rates to account for my expensive treatment.

Because I am not insured, I would have to pay more than a standard co-pay, possibly via the forfeiture of assets. So, you're just plain wrong on that point. You as a rate payer and a taxpayer would pay more if my insurance had to cover the treatment, rather than my being uninsured and prone to asset seizure. One scenario, I pay a relatively small co-pay. The other scenario, my assets are seized and auctioned off. Hey, that's insurance. I don't do insurance. If you love it, you're free to buy it.

Holy cow, you're dumb.

Holy Cow I'm dumb and I come from Afghanistan. Clever.

What I see going on in America right now is a total excess of health care. There's a new drug for every imaginary condition. There's a new surgery for every little malady, leading inevitably to complications and further surgeries. And then there's the lawsuits that follow from bad drugs gone wrong and risky surgeries gone awry, further driving up the cost of health care.

And beyond the unfortunate circumstances of medical incompetence, there is a real problem with outright predatory medicine.

Whatever. My body's ability to heal and my immune system are incredibly strong for one main reason: I've allowed my own body to heal itself without drugs or procedures, and completely without antibiotics. My beneficial bacterial gut fauna have been evolving unfettered for 3 decades. At 45 years old, I'm at the apex of immunity. Now, maybe in 15 years I'll have to reassess that proclamation. But for now, I have absolutely no need of the healthcare system.

And don't worry about me getting into an accident. I'm sleeping at the office tonight.

 

[Zander]

Does health insurance cost more or less since Obamacare was passed without a single Republican vote? It was going to lower the cost for all!! As Obama often reminded us: "WORDS MATTER".

I thought you wanted to talk about reality, not intentions or rhetoric. The reality is that pretty much every metric characterizing the health system has gotten better over the past five years. And that includes costs, which have been growing at virtually the lowest rate on record.

When it comes to insurance, premium growth for employer-based plans (which most privately insured people have) was the lowest in nearly two decades this year. Average premiums in the new marketplaces are basically flat going into next year.

As for how many are covered now that weren't before, the best estimates put the number at about 10 million.

And really, when this thing does take hold and everyone is caught in its web, who is to say what insurance companies will charge, or what the quality metrics will say, or what the burden will be on taxpayers when the burden of cost shifts to the states, or what the cost of the law will be after a massive expansion of Medicaid for the poor at the very time when Baby Boomers are going on Medicare by the thousands per day?

We've had plenty of predictions over the last five years what will happen. I'm just pointing out what has happened to date. Quality has improved, health care cost growth and health price inflation dropped to record lows, the deficit plummeted, the new spending called for under the law came in below projections, and 10 million people gained insurance.

liberal propaganda 101: Reframe the argument. Move the goalposts. distract, dissemble, divert.....

 

[Zander]

Actually if I was on ObamaCare, then you would have to pay the bill. You might have to pay it in terms of your insurance company raising rates to account for my expensive treatment.

Because I am not insured, I would have to pay more than a standard co-pay, possibly via the forfeiture of assets. So, you're just plain wrong on that point. You as a rate payer and a taxpayer would pay more if my insurance had to cover the treatment, rather than my being uninsured and prone to asset seizure. One scenario, I pay a relatively small co-pay. The other scenario, my assets are seized and auctioned off. Hey, that's insurance. I don't do insurance. If you love it, you're free to buy it.

Holy cow, you're dumb.

Holy Cow I'm dumb and I come from Afghanistan. Clever.

What I see going on in America right now is a total excess of health care. There's a new drug for every imaginary condition. There's a new surgery for every little malady, leading inevitably to complications and further surgeries. And then there's the lawsuits that follow from bad drugs gone wrong and risky surgeries gone awry, further driving up the cost of health care.

And beyond the unfortunate circumstances of medical incompetence, there is a real problem with outright predatory medicine.

Whatever. My body's ability to heal and my immune system are incredibly strong for one main reason: I've allowed my own body to heal itself without drugs or procedures, and completely without antibiotics. My beneficial bacterial gut fauna have been evolving unfettered for 3 decades. At 45 years old, I'm at the apex of immunity. Now, maybe in 15 years I'll have to reassess that proclamation. But for now, I have absolutely no need of the healthcare system.

And don't worry about me getting into an accident. I'm sleeping at the office tonight.

according to lib/prog/commies - you're selfish and dumb!

 

[Vandalshandle]

Europeans intermarried with the natives, which created the Hispanic race. Anglos did not. We simply killed the natives.

Are you serious? All the Europeans mated with the indios including Anglos whom were not natives anyway because they migrated to this continent just like the Europeans did. Hispanics were from Spain only. The Spanish conquistadores didn't battle with or kill any of the indios? Surely you jest. You might try taking a history class.

Any intelligent, conscientious, productive citizen.......living in a nation that does not have single payer universal health care.....needs health insurance. It is not a viable option to go without it.

......Otherwise you're selfish and stupid!!

True. Selfish, because without insurance, you are going to rely on some other government program to fund your brain surgery to remove the malignant tumor from your head that you can not possibly pay for. Stupid, because you may very well may not find such a public free program that will do that for you.

I am financially independent and can afford any surgery I need. Why should I be forced to buy a product I don't need? I self insure.

I'm impressed Zander. My career was in health insurance and we would rider out a brain tumor at $750,000 deductibles on self funded employer stop loss coverage. Since that was 10 years ago, that means $1,000,0000 today. And, yet, YOU, in your incredible success in becoming a billionaire, (when you are not busy posting on this board, of course), can write a check for $1,000,000 to remove your brain tumor! Way to go, pal! I believe every word of it.....

I honestly don't care what you believe. I have a net worth that is substantially more than 1 million (and substantially less than 1 billion!). So I can afford a $1millon surgery,.....but I doubt I'd have to pay that much. Cash patients get a huge discount.

PS- I don't spend much time posting here.....I only average about 6 posts a day.

Sorry, Old, wrong again. People who do not have insurance with contracted providers with rate limitations get soaked to the core by health providers. Part of my career involved setting those contract reimbursement limits. The best example I can give you is this. I fell off my motorcycle 2 months ago. My ambulance, emergency room, x-ray and Cat-scan bills totaled out at $6.855. That is what I would have had to pay had I not been insured by a Medicare Advantage Plan. However, the HMO who carried my plan had limited the total charges from all these providers to $885. My copay was $290, and the HMO paid $595, with no balance billing allowed. You, on the other hand, are fair game, because nobody has signed a contract to limit your billed charges at all, being non-insured. Put another way, cost shifting has been going on for decades from insured to taxpayers who are billed for hospital write offs, Medicare, and Medicaid. Under ACA, cost shifting is going to be from insured, to non-insured. Enjoy.

 

[Zander]

Are you serious? All the Europeans mated with the indios including Anglos whom were not natives anyway because they migrated to this continent just like the Europeans did. Hispanics were from Spain only. The Spanish conquistadores didn't battle with or kill any of the indios? Surely you jest. You might try taking a history class.

......Otherwise you're selfish and stupid!!

True. Selfish, because without insurance, you are going to rely on some other government program to fund your brain surgery to remove the malignant tumor from your head that you can not possibly pay for. Stupid, because you may very well may not find such a public free program that will do that for you.

I am financially independent and can afford any surgery I need. Why should I be forced to buy a product I don't need? I self insure.

I'm impressed Zander. My career was in health insurance and we would rider out a brain tumor at $750,000 deductibles on self funded employer stop loss coverage. Since that was 10 years ago, that means $1,000,0000 today. And, yet, YOU, in your incredible success in becoming a billionaire, (when you are not busy posting on this board, of course), can write a check for $1,000,000 to remove your brain tumor! Way to go, pal! I believe every word of it.....

I honestly don't care what you believe. I have a net worth that is substantially more than 1 million (and substantially less than 1 billion!). So I can afford a $1millon surgery,.....but I doubt I'd have to pay that much. Cash patients get a huge discount.

PS- I don't spend much time posting here.....I only average about 6 posts a day.

Sorry, Old, wrong again. People who do not have insurance with contracted providers with rate limitations get soaked to the core by health providers. Part of my career involved setting those contract reimbursement limits. The best example I can give you is this. I fell off my motorcycle 2 months ago. My ambulance, emergency room, x-ray and Cat-scan bills totaled out at $6.855. That is what I would have had to pay had I not been insured by a Medicare Advantage Plan. However, the HMO who carried my plan had limited the total charges from all these providers to $885. My copay was $290, and the HMO paid $595, with no balance billing allowed. You, on the other hand, are fair game, because nobody has signed a contract to limit your billed charges at all, being non-insured. Put another way, cost shifting has been going on for decades from insured to taxpayers who are billed for hospital write offs, Medicare, and Medicaid. Under ACA, cost shifting is going to be from insured, to non-insured. Enjoy.

Nice anecdote!! Is that what passes for fact with you? Well if you want to compare anecdotes....I pay my GP $35.00 for an office visit. He gives me a full check up. . I paid $80 co-pay for the exact service when I was "insured".

PS- You're an idiot for riding a motorcycle, especially at your advanced old age.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Zandar, I spent 50 years in the health insurance business, dealing with underwriting, contracting providers, claims, and government compliance. I can guarantee the following to you. Any medical doctor who charges $35 as his total fee for a check up today is a doctor who very shortly will no longer be practicing medicine. That does not even cover his mal-practice insurance. BTW, Us HMO folks have been squeezing medical practitioners for decades. They hate us, because we have enough members in their zip code so that we can make or break them by simply taking them off of our provider list to our members. In exchange for being on our provider list, and getting a patient basis that is large enough to sustain their practice, we demand contracted rates at the absolute lowest level that the doc is willing to work for. We have been squeezing them dry since HMO's replaced insurance companies in the 1980's. before that, they got away with charging anything they wanted.

 

[Greenbeard]

liberal propaganda 101: Reframe the argument. Move the goalposts. distract, dissemble, divert.....

If record low health care cost growth, a plummeting uninsurance rate, and rapidly improving health care quality are distractions for you, perhaps you're focusing on the wrong things. Someday Obama will be gone and all you've have left to focus on is a health care system that works a hell of a lot better than it used to.

 

[Zander]

Zandar, I spent 50 years in the health insurance business, dealing with underwriting, contracting providers, claims, and government compliance. I can guarantee the following to you. Any medical doctor who charges $35 as his total fee for a check up today is a doctor who very shortly will no longer be practicing medicine. That does not even cover his mal-practice insurance.

You are full of baloney.