‘Absolute red line': EU official warns China against supplying weapons to Russia

[Circe]

NATO was quite clear that it wouldn't accept Ukraine, there was no unconstitutional coup in 2014 and no genocide in Ukraine since the genocide of Ukrainians by Russia in 1933. Putin has been very clear over the years that he considers all the land that ever belonged to Russia to still belong to Russia, and he invaded Ukraine because he could not control it through puppet politicians any longer.

We all know all that. Everyone knows that, this is not the issue. The issue is, it's too bad for the Ukies, but it's NOT OUR PROBLEM. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

 

[Silver Cat]

All of your post is bullshit. NATO was quite clear that it wouldn't accept Ukraine, there was no unconstitutional coup in 2014 and no genocide in Ukraine since the genocide of Ukrainians by Russia in 1933. Putin has been very clear over the years that he considers all the land that ever belonged to Russia to still belong to Russia, and he invaded Ukraine because he could not control it through puppet politicians any longer.

Wow! How nice of you to deny Holocaust in Ukraine in 1941-44 or Odessa Massacre in 2014. As the Russians say: "If you don't understand why it is necessary to eliminate Nazies, we are not liberating this land for you. We are liberating it from you. "
Anyway. It's not about your perception of the situation. It's about Russian and Chinese perception. How _they_ see it.

 

[toomuchtime_]

We all know all that. Everyone knows that, this is not the issue. The issue is, it's too bad for the Ukies, but it's NOT OUR PROBLEM. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

It's not your problem and it's not Donnie's problem but the polls show the majority of Americans believe providing aid to Ukraine is in the national interests of the US.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Wow! How nice of you to deny Holocaust in Ukraine in 1941-44 or Odessa Massacre in 2014. As the Russians say: "If you don't understand why it is necessary to eliminate Nazies, we are not liberating this land for you. We are liberating it from you. "
Anyway. It's not about your perception of the situation. It's about Russian and Chinese perception. How _they_ see it.

They see it exactly as I see it, but they approve of Russia's attempt to colonize Ukraine.

 

[Circe]

It's not your problem and it's not Donnie's problem but the polls show the majority of Americans believe providing aid to Ukraine is in the national interests of the US.

Watch that change fast ----

Especially when Biden starts drafting American teenagers to fight the war FOR the Ukies.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Watch that change fast ----

Especially when Biden starts drafting American teenagers to fight the war FOR the Ukies.

When you feel the need to make things up to carry your argument, you are admitting the facts don't support your position.

 

[Silver Cat]

They see it exactly as I see it, but they approve of Russia's attempt to colonize Ukraine.

Russia colonized the land of the modern Ukraine in IX century. They live there for more than thousand years. Actually, Kiev is one of the most old Russian cities.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Russia colonized the land of the modern Ukraine in IX century. They live there for more than thousand years. Actually, Kiev is one of the most old Russian cities.

Before the war ethnic Russians constituted 17.2% of the population of Ukraine and even in the Donbass they were less than half the population, and of course, being an ethnic Russian doesn't mean you want to live under Putin's government. There was no Russian legacy to recover; this was just plain neo colonial aggression.

 

[Silver Cat]

Before the war ethnic Russians constituted 17.2% of the population of Ukraine and even in the Donbass they were less than half the population, and of course, being an ethnic Russian doesn't mean you want to live under Putin's government. There was no Russian legacy to recover; this was just plain neo colonial aggression.

Many Russians (and even Mr. Zelenskiy, who actually is a 'Russian Jew') believe that Ukrainians are Russians, too.
But prevention of the genocide doesn't mean conquering of the land (or having any rights on it) at all. The USA prevented genocide of Albanians in Serbia without being Albanians (or Serbians) at all.
Or, the USA prevented discrimination of WASPs in Texas, and annexed it.
Do you think, that there is any difference between US annexation of Texas and Russian annexation of Donbass?
Do you think, that 85% of the world population see any difference between American invasion in Iraq, and Russian invasion in Ukraine?

 

[Silver Cat]

Try to find arguments that could convince ordinary Chinaman that American military presence in Taiwan is good, and Russian military presence in Novorossia is bad. Good luck in it.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Asenior European Union (EU) official on Friday said that the 27-nation bloc would respond with sanctions if China provides weapons to Russia in its war with Ukraine.

Calling it an absolute "red line", the EU official warned China against supplying weapons to Russia, Reuters reported.

The comments echo remarks by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz who also warned Beijing against providing such aid to Moscow as it continues to fight in Ukraine.

While China denied any intention to arm Russia, US National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby on Friday said that the former could still take the escalatory step of providing lethal military aid to Russia, according to CNN.

Noting that the administration still doesn't "believe that they've made the decision to move forward", Kirby told CNN, "We don't believe they've taken it off the table".

Europe's top diplomat also said the West needs to be vigilant when it comes to support for Russia from China, after US officials warned that Beijing could be about to send lethal weapons to Moscow.

MSN

I haven't seen the western democracies this united since the early days of he Cold War.

What are they going to do waddle some Germans into battle

 

[toomuchtime_]

Many Russians (and even Mr. Zelenskiy, who actually is a 'Russian Jew') believe that Ukrainians are Russians, too.
But prevention of the genocide doesn't mean conquering of the land (or having any rights on it) at all. The USA prevented genocide of Albanians in Serbia without being Albanians (or Serbians) at all.
Or, the USA prevented discrimination of WASPs in Texas, and annexed it.
Do you think, that there is any difference between US annexation of Texas and Russian annexation of Donbass?
Do you think, that 85% of the world population see any difference between American invasion in Iraq, and Russian invasion in Ukraine?

As is nearly always the case, there is nothing in your post but bullshit.

Don't try to talk about what Russians think because it is against the law to think in Russia.

Putin intensifies punishment for "fake news" about the war and the Russian occupiers​

Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law on intensifying punishment "for discrediting the participants of the special operation".

Source: Pro-Russian media outlet RIA Novosti on Telegram

Details: It is noted that not only do soldiers fall under the law, but also so-called "volunteers", for example, mercenaries from the Wagner Group.

Punishment for alleged "fake news" about the Russian army carries a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison.

MSN

So, it's not that the Russians believe Ukrainians are Russians, but that Putin told the Russian people to believe Ukrainians are really Russians and if they disagree, he will throw them in prison for fifteen years.

With Putin treating the Russian people with such savagery, it's no wonder Russian occupiers in Ukraine are so comfortable committing war crimes against the Ukrainian people.

We both know there was no genocide in the Donbass. While Yanukovych was in office Putin effectively ruled Ukraine, but when the Ukranian people rejected Yanukovych, Putin organized and armed militias to attack Ukrainian government buildings and Ukrainians who did not support Russian control of Ukraine and when Putin's militias failed to take control of the Donbass, he sent in Russian troops. To restate, Putin tried to take over the Donbass by arming a small minority of the people there to impose a Russian dictatorship over the Donbass and then sent in Russian troops to help, and that was the cause of the violence and death in the Donbass, not genocide.

The difference between the US annexation of Texas and Russia's annexation of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine is that the annexation of Texas happened 170 years ago. At that time the US was colonizing most of what is today the US and Europeans were colonizing Africa and Asia and Russia was attempting to colonize anything it could, but the rest of the world has evolved since then, and what was accepted practice in 1848 is criminal activity today. Putin may be telling you it's still 1848, but in Russia, it's 1984 all day every day.

Whether the US invasion of Iraq was a mistake or not, the US did not try to annex Iraq or steal its wealth or turn it into a US colony as Russia is trying to do in Ukraine, and while some countries think the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, as the recent vote in the UNGA to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine showed, most of the world thinks Russia is an abomination, and only six countries in the world bought the Putin bullshit you ae trying to sell here.

 

[Circe]

When you feel the need to make things up to carry your argument, you are admitting the facts don't support your position.

What facts? I'm worried Biden will get us into war with Russia because he's following the same exact path that got us into WWI, WWII, and Vietnam. First choose the incompetent, losing side, then supply a lot of armaments and more and more, and finally go fight the war for them, because it's obvious they are losing fighting it themselves.

I don't want this happening, but so far, Biden is following the usual pattern of how to get us into war.

 

[Silver Cat]

As is nearly always the case, there is nothing in your post but bullshit.

Don't try to talk about what Russians think because it is against the law to think in Russia.

Putin intensifies punishment for "fake news" about the war and the Russian occupiers​

Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law on intensifying punishment "for discrediting the participants of the special operation".

Source: Pro-Russian media outlet RIA Novosti on Telegram

Details: It is noted that not only do soldiers fall under the law, but also so-called "volunteers", for example, mercenaries from the Wagner Group.

Punishment for alleged "fake news" about the Russian army carries a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison.

MSN

So, it's not that the Russians believe Ukrainians are Russians, but that Putin told the Russian people to believe Ukrainians are really Russians and if they disagree, he will throw them in prison for fifteen years.

With Putin treating the Russian people with such savagery, it's no wonder Russian occupiers in Ukraine are so comfortable committing war crimes against the Ukrainian people.

We both know there was no genocide in the Donbass. While Yanukovych was in office Putin effectively ruled Ukraine, but when the Ukranian people rejected Yanukovych, Putin organized and armed militias to attack Ukrainian government buildings and Ukrainians who did not support Russian control of Ukraine and when Putin's militias failed to take control of the Donbass, he sent in Russian troops. To restate, Putin tried to take over the Donbass by arming a small minority of the people there to impose a Russian dictatorship over the Donbass and then sent in Russian troops to help, and that was the cause of the violence and death in the Donbass, not genocide.

The difference between the US annexation of Texas and Russia's annexation of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine is that the annexation of Texas happened 170 years ago. At that time the US was colonizing most of what is today the US and Europeans were colonizing Africa and Asia and Russia was attempting to colonize anything it could, but the rest of the world has evolved since then, and what was accepted practice in 1848 is criminal activity today. Putin may be telling you it's still 1848, but in Russia, it's 1984 all day every day.

Whether the US invasion of Iraq was a mistake or not, the US did not try to annex Iraq or steal its wealth or turn it into a US colony as Russia is trying to do in Ukraine, and while some countries think the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, as the recent vote in the UNGA to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine showed, most of the world thinks Russia is an abomination, and only six countries in the world bought the Putin bullshit you ae trying to sell here.

First of all, Ukrainians were Russians centuries before Putin's great grandfather was born. Actually, the very conception of "Ukrainian nation" was invented in the beginning of XX century.
We both know, that there were much more genocide of Russians in Donbass (and other regions of Ukraine, including Kharkov and Odessa) than there were such genocide of Albanians in Kosovo.
Your "democratic" rewriting of history is a crap. Annexation of Texas was good for the USA, good for [white anglo-saxon protestant] people of Texas, and, may be, it was good for Mexico, too. It was good back in XIX century, and it is good now. Defense of your own kind is a form of self-defense, and, therefore, it can't be bad.
American troops looted some stuff in Iraq, and Russian troops looted some stuff in Ukraine, but it is not why those conflicts were started. American people wanted to be safe and don't allow Saddam to make WMD. Russian people want to be safe, too, therefore they don't want NATO forces in Ukraine and don't want WMD in Zelenskiy hands.
Russia don't care what exactly the rest of the world think about her behavior, because this conflict is not about reputation, it is about survival of Russian people.

 

[toomuchtime_]

What facts? I'm worried Biden will get us into war with Russia because he's following the same exact path that got us into WWI, WWII, and Vietnam. First choose the incompetent, losing side, then supply a lot of armaments and more and more, and finally go fight the war for them, because it's obvious they are losing fighting it themselves.

I don't want this happening, but so far, Biden is following the usual pattern of how to get us into war.

Again, making up stories like that shows you don't believe your position is supported by the facts. You ask, what facts? Exactly, there are no facts to support your position.

 

[Circe]

Again, making up stories like that shows you don't believe your position is supported by the facts. You ask, what facts? Exactly, there are no facts to support your position.

Gracious, I hope not! I would be alarmed if there were facts supporting my concerns about Biden getting us into a war in the FUTURE. Or at least I'd want fair access to that time machine myself.

How can there be facts about the future? Only speculation is possible. DINGdingding -- you're wrong yet again!!

 

[Circe]

What are they going to do waddle some Germans into battle

I just read that Macron is raising the retirement rate partly because he wants to build up the French military, given this possible war with Russia.


IMO, he'd better. I may not be the only American who thinks, for God's sake! if they don't care WHY SHOULD WE. Let them have their war over there; it's not our problem.

 

[toomuchtime_]

First of all, Ukrainians were Russians centuries before Putin's great grandfather was born. Actually, the very conception of "Ukrainian nation" was invented in the beginning of XX century.
We both know, that there were much more genocide of Russians in Donbass (and other regions of Ukraine, including Kharkov and Odessa) than there were such genocide of Albanians in Kosovo.
Your "democratic" rewriting of history is a crap. Annexation of Texas was good for the USA, good for [white anglo-saxon protestant] people of Texas, and, may be, it was good for Mexico, too. It was good back in XIX century, and it is good now. Defense of your own kind is a form of self-defense, and, therefore, it can't be bad.
American troops looted some stuff in Iraq, and Russian troops looted some stuff in Ukraine, but it is not why those conflicts were started. American people wanted to be safe and don't allow Saddam to make WMD. Russian people want to be safe, too, therefore they don't want NATO forces in Ukraine and don't want WMD in Zelenskiy hands.
Russia don't care what exactly the rest of the world think about her behavior, because this conflict is not about reputation, it is about survival of Russian people.

What happened long ago is irrelevant. When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 only 17.2% of the population of Ukraine were ethnic Russians and less than half the population of the Donbass were ethnic Russians, and there was no reason to believe more than a few of the ethnic Russians in the Donbass wanted to live under Russian rule. There was no violence in the Donbass until Russia organized and armed militias to attack the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people who didn't support Ukraine being colonized by Russia. Again, you post nothing but irrelevant bullshit.

 

[Circe]

Again, making up stories like that shows you don't believe your position is supported by the facts. You ask, what facts? Exactly, there are no facts to support your position.

You are a Ukie propagandist, aren't you? Wow, good English! Usually one can easily tell the Russkies because of the weird word choice, poor babies. You are good with language, but I hate a foreign propagandist. We get so many of them here.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You are a Ukie propagandist, aren't you? Wow, good English! Usually one can easily tell the Russkies because of the weird word choice, poor babies. You are good with language, but I hate a foreign propagandist. We get so many of them here.

And here you are rootin' for Putin.