About TheReligionofPeace.com

[Ropey]

On the ground Sky Dancer.

Is this what is happening on the ground?

 

[Sky Dancer]

On the ground Sky Dancer.

Is this what is happening on the ground?

I'm on the ground working for peace. What are you doing? I offer an alternative interpretation of the word surrender.

You reject it, because your view is the Islamic religion is inherently violent. I don't expect you to convert to a less bigoted view of Islam, I only mean to show you other interpretations are possible.

 

[Ropey]

On the ground Sky Dancer.

Is this what is happening on the ground?

I'm on the ground working for peace. What are you doing?

I'm on the ground working for understanding of what is meant by peace. While you are on the ground simply accepting the words given and bypass (conveniently) the works on the ground. Head in sand, ok.

You seem to think that surrender is peace. Submission is surrender in Islam.

I wonder if you would be so wiling to surrender if you were in Iran.

 

[Sky Dancer]

On the ground Sky Dancer.

Is this what is happening on the ground?

I'm on the ground working for peace. What are you doing?

I'm on the ground working for understanding of what is meant by peace.

You seem to think that surrender is peace. Submission is surrender in Islam.

I wonder if you would be so wiling to surrender if you were in Iran.

Surrender is a spiritual term too. It is not always about warfare and who is dominant.

I'm showing that there are alternative explanations which you refuse to acknowledge. You're blinded.

Then on top of that, you hope I go somewhere I can learn YOUR meaning of surrender which is some form of violence/harm.

And you think I need to chill. Good grief.

 

[Ropey]

Then on top of that, you hope I go somewhere I can learn YOUR meaning of surrender which is some form of violence/harm.

And you think I need to chill. Good grief.

Yes, hide your head in the sand. Yes, it is my view you need to chill and look at all dimensions without seeing your view as the only correct one.

My meaning?

Head in the sand or what? You are simply trying to indict me personally.

Nu uh. Neg for indicting me personally.

Often, when people think of the Muslim concept of jihad or holy war, they associate with it the negative connotation of a self-righteous campaign of vengeful destruction in the name of God to convert others by force. They may acknowledge that Christianity had an equivalent with the Crusades, but do not usually view Buddhism as having anything similar. After all, they say, Buddhism is a religion of peace and does not have the technical term holy war.

A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly The Kalachakra Tantra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars." An unbiased study of Islam reveals the same. In both religions, leaders may exploit the external dimensions of holy war for political, economic, or personal gain, by using it to rouse their troops to battle.

Holy Wars in Buddhism and Islam - The Myth of Shambhala

Yes, I understand your point Sky Dancer.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Often, when people think of the Muslim concept of jihad or holy war, they associate with it the negative connotation of a self-righteous campaign of vengeful destruction in the name of God to convert others by force. They may acknowledge that Christianity had an equivalent with the Crusades, but do not usually view Buddhism as having anything similar. After all, they say, Buddhism is a religion of peace and does not have the technical term holy war.

A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly The Kalachakra Tantra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars." An unbiased study of Islam reveals the same. In both religions, leaders may exploit the external dimensions of holy war for political, economic, or personal gain, by using it to rouse their troops to battle.

Holy Wars in Buddhism and Islam - The Myth of Shambhala

Yes, I understand your point Sky Dancer.

I hope so. Buddhist teachings are non-violent. Using the Kalachakra Tantra to justify war would be considered 'wrong view' or heresy in Buddhism. If your point is there have been 'holy wars' in Buddhism, I would say that Buddhist history is not completely free of violence, (I'm aware of sectarian violence in Tibet, prior to the Chinese takeover), but 'holy wars' would be very unusual.

All these ways of interpreting other people's scriptures either lead to peace or to agitation. It's our choice which way we choose.

 

[Ropey]

Often, when people think of the Muslim concept of jihad or holy war, they associate with it the negative connotation of a self-righteous campaign of vengeful destruction in the name of God to convert others by force. They may acknowledge that Christianity had an equivalent with the Crusades, but do not usually view Buddhism as having anything similar. After all, they say, Buddhism is a religion of peace and does not have the technical term holy war.

A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly The Kalachakra Tantra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars." An unbiased study of Islam reveals the same. In both religions, leaders may exploit the external dimensions of holy war for political, economic, or personal gain, by using it to rouse their troops to battle.

Holy Wars in Buddhism and Islam - The Myth of Shambhala

Yes, I understand your point Sky Dancer.

I hope so. Buddhist teachings are non-violent. Using the Kalachakra Tantra to justify war would be considered 'wrong view' or heresy in Buddhism.

But if it were used on the ground. Regardless of your view?

Is this is what we see on the ground in the 21 Muslim border wars? Regardless if some Islamic moderates spout pretty poetry.

Considered wrong doesn't matter if the leaders of the countries are considering it right.

On the ground by their works. Let's find the words and apply them, shall we?

Peace? In Islamic terms, you have no problem with it and I see why since your view is quite the same with regards to Islamic submission.

Islamic border wars - Google Search

 

[Sky Dancer]

Holy Wars in Buddhism and Islam - The Myth of Shambhala

Yes, I understand your point Sky Dancer.

I hope so. Buddhist teachings are non-violent. Using the Kalachakra Tantra to justify war would be considered 'wrong view' or heresy in Buddhism.

But if it were used on the ground. Regardless of your view?

Is this is what we see on the ground in the 21 Muslim border wars? Regardless if some Islamic moderates spout pretty poetry.

Considered wrong doesn't matter if the leaders of the countries are considering it right.

On the ground by their works. Let's find the words and apply them, shall we?

Peace? In Islamic terms, you have no problem with it and I see why since your view is quite the same with regards to Islamic submission.

Islamic border wars - Google Search

The fact that there are Islamic poets spouting pretty poetry is evidence that Islam is not inherently violent.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I felt hurt myself by your suggestion that I go to Iran to learn the real meaning of submission. As a woman, and a lesbian I found that statement offensive.

There is plenty I find fault with in Islamic countries, such as the treatment of women and girls and homosexuals. I don't approve of terrorism or any kind of violence including verbal aggression.

Thank you for understanding there are alternate ways to interpret scripture, and how some people get it wrong.

 

[Ropey]

I hope so. Buddhist teachings are non-violent. Using the Kalachakra Tantra to justify war would be considered 'wrong view' or heresy in Buddhism.

But if it were used on the ground. Regardless of your view?

Is this is what we see on the ground in the 21 Muslim border wars? Regardless if some Islamic moderates spout pretty poetry.

Considered wrong doesn't matter if the leaders of the countries are considering it right.

On the ground by their works. Let's find the words and apply them, shall we?

Peace? In Islamic terms, you have no problem with it and I see why since your view is quite the same with regards to Islamic submission.

Islamic border wars - Google Search

The fact that there are Islamic poets spouting pretty poetry is evidence that Islam is not inherently violent.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I felt hurt myself by your suggestion that I go to Iran to learn the real meaning of submission. As a woman, and a lesbian I found that statement offensive.

There is plenty I find fault with in Islamic countries, such as the treatment of women and girls and homosexuals. I don't approve of terrorism or any kind of violence including verbal aggression.

Thank you for understanding there are alternate ways to interpret scripture, and how some people get it wrong.

My feelings are not hurt Sky Dancer. How could they be? I am simply using words to understand context.

None of what I post will change one whit of the acts on the ground.

So, as a woman and a lesbian you were offended by my view that you might need to go to Iran to see what Islam thinks of you and your views.

Why are you offended? By mere words that are asking you to weigh both options. But no, you live in a country that allows you your choices.

In Islam, your sexual choice would not be accepted.

So, if the terms are the same, then why would you be offended? You would simply be submitting to Islamic peace, wouldn't you? You are at war with Islam because you have not surrendered to the will of Allah. And your choices are against the peace of Islam.

And I offend you?

OK

In Saudi Arabia you would still be submitting to Islamic peace, wouldn't you?

I mean, surrender is submission to Islam. Surrender to the will of those who submit to Allah.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I give up. Islam is not inherently evil. Some Islamic majority countries practices and laws are. Terrorism is evil.

1.5 billion people practice Islam. Are they all evil? Are they all terrorists? Are none of them peaceful?

Surrender is a spiritual term and one that I am at peace with. It is a spiritual term in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam, as well.

I would never submit to Allah, because I am not a Muslim. Muslims submit to Allah the same way that Christians submit to God's will.

I am perfectly aware that I would be persecuted or killed in some Islamic countries if I was openly 'acting gay' or simply not wearing a burqua. I have traveled to Asia and I've been in Muslim areas. I was not comfortable there because no women were out in public. That does not mean I think Islam is inherently violent or evil or that Muslims are all violent. It means I am uncomfortable with how women are treated in some Islamic countries.

I will not come over to your point of view or visit Iran. Your wish that I experience your version of surrender will never happen.

I have no interest in living in any kind of theocracy, not matter what the religion.

 

[Ropey]

I give up. Islam is not inherently evil. Some Islamic majority countries practices and laws are. Terrorism is evil.

1.5 billion people practice Islam. Are they all evil? Are they all terrorists? Are none of them peaceful?

Surrender is a spiritual term and one that I am at peace with. It is a spiritual term in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam, as well.

I would never submit to Allah, because I am not a Muslim. Muslims submit to Allah the same way that Christians submit to God's will.

I am perfectly aware that I would be persecuted or killed in some Islamic countries if I was openly 'acting gay' or simply not wearing a burqua. I have traveled to Asia and I've been in Muslim areas. I was not comfortable there because no women were out in public. That does not mean I think Islam is inherently violent or evil or that Muslims are all violent. It means I am uncomfortable with how women are treated in some Islamic countries.

I will not come over to your point of view or visit Iran. Your wish that I experience your version of surrender will never happen.

Islam's view of surrender. Not mine. You indict me again personally.

But it is closer to your beliefs views, so I understand why you are comfortable with the Islamic view if not their laws commanding...



I don't want you to change your views Sky Dancer. Keep them. Stay where you are in your views. I'm not trying to change your views, but be clear, your views are very arguable.

They do not stand as constant facts. Whatsoever. I think you waffle. But that's common, and my personal view.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I give up. Islam is not inherently evil. Some Islamic majority countries practices and laws are. Terrorism is evil.

1.5 billion people practice Islam. Are they all evil? Are they all terrorists? Are none of them peaceful?

Surrender is a spiritual term and one that I am at peace with. It is a spiritual term in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam, as well.

I would never submit to Allah, because I am not a Muslim. Muslims submit to Allah the same way that Christians submit to God's will.

I am perfectly aware that I would be persecuted or killed in some Islamic countries if I was openly 'acting gay' or simply not wearing a burqua. I have traveled to Asia and I've been in Muslim areas. I was not comfortable there because no women were out in public. That does not mean I think Islam is inherently violent or evil or that Muslims are all violent. It means I am uncomfortable with how women are treated in some Islamic countries.

I will not come over to your point of view or visit Iran. Your wish that I experience your version of surrender will never happen.

Islam's view of surrender. Not mine. You indict me again personally.

But it is closer to your beliefs views, so I understand why you are comfortable with the Islamic view if not their laws commanding...



I don't want you to change your views Sky Dancer. Keep them. Stay where you are in your views. I'm not trying to change your views, but be clear, your views are very arguable.

They do not stand as constant facts. Whatsoever. I think you waffle. But that's common, and my personal view.

It's YOUR version of what the term, 'surrender' means. To you, it means 'submission', as in submission to being abused or dominated. You want me to go to Iran where I can experience YOUR version of what the term 'surrender' means.

I argue that YOUR version of that term is prejudicial because you indict the entire religion, rather than criticising Sharia Law as it practiced in some Middle Eastern countries.

You refuse to see that Islam has it's own mystical tradition, just like Judaism and Christianity. The poem I posted is an example of the Sufi tradition, mystical Islam. Same Q'uran, different interpretation. I pointed out in the Sufi tradition what the term surrender means. That is the kind of surrender I can relate to as a Buddhist. An internal one, not a submission to any kind of unfair or abusive treatment.

I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand the difference.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Islam's view of surrender. Not mine. You indict me again personally.

But it is closer to your beliefs views, so I understand why you are comfortable with the Islamic view if not their laws commanding...



I don't want you to change your views Sky Dancer. Keep them. Stay where you are in your views. I'm not trying to change your views, but be clear, your views are very arguable.

They do not stand as constant facts. Whatsoever. I think you waffle. But that's common, and my personal view.

It's YOUR version of what the term, 'surrender' means. To you, it means 'submission', as in submission to being abused or dominated. You want me to go to Iran where I can experience YOUR version of what the term 'surrender' means.

I argue that YOUR version of that term is prejudicial because you indict the entire religion, rather than criticising Sharia Law as it practiced in some Middle Eastern countries.

You refuse to see that Islam has it's own mystical tradition, just like Judaism and Christianity. The poem I posted is an example of the Sufi tradition, mystical Islam. Same Q'uran, different interpretation. I pointed out in the Sufi tradition what the term surrender means. That is the kind of surrender I can relate to as a Buddhist. An internal one, not a submission to any kind of unfair or abusive treatment.

I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand the difference.

Yes, I understand. You can relate to it well. As long as your choices are allowed.

That's simply pitiful to my view.

As long as you are fine....

But you don't want to put any of your feet into the Islamic waters.

I don't like fundamentalism of any kind, including Islamic. I favor the mystical expressions of all the religions, be it Judaism, Christianity or Islam.


It's pitiful to me that you can't or won't even consider that there are peaceful expressions of Islam even after I point it out to you. Same Q'uran in Sufism, different interpretation.

Plenty of peaceful Muslims living in America, yet you think Islam is inherently violent.

You're prejudiced against Islam. No problem. I get it.

 

[Ropey]

I give up. Islam is not inherently evil. Some Islamic majority countries practices and laws are. Terrorism is evil.

1.5 billion people practice Islam. Are they all evil? Are they all terrorists? Are none of them peaceful?

Surrender is a spiritual term and one that I am at peace with. It is a spiritual term in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam, as well.

I would never submit to Allah, because I am not a Muslim. Muslims submit to Allah the same way that Christians submit to God's will.

I am perfectly aware that I would be persecuted or killed in some Islamic countries if I was openly 'acting gay' or simply not wearing a burqua. I have traveled to Asia and I've been in Muslim areas. I was not comfortable there because no women were out in public. That does not mean I think Islam is inherently violent or evil or that Muslims are all violent. It means I am uncomfortable with how women are treated in some Islamic countries.

I will not come over to your point of view or visit Iran. Your wish that I experience your version of surrender will never happen.

Islam's view of surrender. Not mine. You indict me again personally.

But it is closer to your beliefs views, so I understand why you are comfortable with the Islamic view if not their laws commanding...



I don't want you to change your views Sky Dancer. Keep them. Stay where you are in your views. I'm not trying to change your views, but be clear, your views are very arguable.

They do not stand as constant facts. Whatsoever. I think you waffle. But that's common, and my personal view.

It's YOUR version of what the term, 'surrender' means. To you, it means 'submission', as in submission to being abused or dominated. You want me to go to Iran where I can experience YOUR version of what the term 'surrender' means.

I argue that YOUR version of that term is prejudicial because you indict the entire religion, rather than criticising Sharia Law as it practiced in some Middle Eastern countries.

You refuse to see that Islam has it's own mystical tradition, just like Judaism and Christianity. The poem I posted is an example of the Sufi tradition, mystical Islam. Same Q'uran, different interpretation. I pointed out in the Sufi tradition what the term surrender means. That is the kind of surrender I can relate to as a Buddhist. An internal one, not a submission to any kind of unfair or abusive treatment.

I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand the difference.

Yes, I understand. You can relate to it well. As long as your choices are allowed.

That's simply pitiful to my view.

As long as you are fine....

But you don't want to put any of your feet into the Islamic waters.



Your =

Calling out the truth about what a "doctrine" teaches is not "bashing", it's enlightening.

Indeed. And what is happening on the ground today is proof of the words today. How can one truly bash what is truth? All they can do is attack the words, but the words have their meaning regardless of support or bash.

The truth needs not support or bash. It simply is. Let's find the truth of the words of Islam.

Because there are far different meanings for many of the English definitions of the Arabic words.

As I said, the definition of Peace in Islam is totally different than the definition of Peace in RC/Judaism.

Yet they are interchanged when Muslims speak of Peace in English. Does anyone think the two meanings are the same?

The Arabic term "Islam" itself (إسلا&#1605 is usually translated as "submission"; submission of desires to the will of God. It comes from the term aslama, which means "to surrender" or "resign oneself".[1]

Peace in Islamic philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace describes a society or a relationship that is operating harmoniously and without violent conflict. Peace is commonly understood as the absence of hostility, or the existence of healthy or newly healed interpersonal or international relationships, safety in matters of social or economic welfare, the acknowledgment of equality, and fairness in political relationships.

Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My view?

Blame me for this view?

 

[Sky Dancer]

You keep repeating the definition of peace in Islam that is translated as submission or surrender to God.

There is nothing wrong with that definition of peace. 'Surrender yourself to Jesus', says Billy Graham.

Surrender the ego, and find your own buddha nature, says the Buddhist.

Submit your will to God. Sounds pretty biblical to me.

 

[Ropey]

You keep repeating the definition of peace in Islam that is translated as submission or surrender to God.

There is nothing wrong with that definition of peace. 'Surrender yourself to Jesus', says Billy Graham.

Surrender the ego, and find awareness itself, says the Buddhist.

But they mean different things. Submission in Islam is interpreted differently as is surrender.

But of course, you like the philosophy of the words in Western definitions.

Then you blame me for a view that is arguably held?

And blaming me for the difference in interpretations is a major fail.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You keep repeating the definition of peace in Islam that is translated as submission or surrender to God.

There is nothing wrong with that definition of peace. 'Surrender yourself to Jesus', says Billy Graham.

Surrender the ego, and find awareness itself, says the Buddhist.

But they mean different things. Submission in Islam is interpreted differently as is surrender.

But of course, you like the philosophy of the words in Western definitions.

Then you blame me for a view that is arguably held?

And blaming me for the difference in interpretations is a major fail.

If you wanted to discuss what's wrong with Sharia Law as it's practiced in Islamic theocracies in the Middle East, we would find lots of common ground.

Instead, you assert that Islam is inherently violent and evil. I disagree. We're at an impasse.

 

[Ropey]

You keep repeating the definition of peace in Islam that is translated as submission or surrender to God.

There is nothing wrong with that definition of peace. 'Surrender yourself to Jesus', says Billy Graham.

Surrender the ego, and find awareness itself, says the Buddhist.

But they mean different things. Submission in Islam is interpreted differently as is surrender.

But of course, you like the philosophy of the words in Western definitions.

Then you blame me for a view that is arguably held?

And blaming me for the difference in interpretations is a major fail.

If you wanted to discuss what's wrong with Sharia Law as it's practiced in Islamic theocracies in the Middle East, we would find lots of common ground.

Instead, you assert that Islam is inherently violent and evil. I disagree. We're at an impasse.

Please quote my words where I say Islam is inherently violent and evil.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But they mean different things. Submission in Islam is interpreted differently as is surrender.

But of course, you like the philosophy of the words in Western definitions.

Then you blame me for a view that is arguably held?

And blaming me for the difference in interpretations is a major fail.

If you wanted to discuss what's wrong with Sharia Law as it's practiced in Islamic theocracies in the Middle East, we would find lots of common ground.

Instead, you assert that Islam is inherently violent and evil. I disagree. We're at an impasse.

Please quote my words where I say Islam is inherently violent and evil.

Too much work. If you don't think Islam is inherently violent and evil then say so, we have common ground.

If you think Sharia Law as practiced in Islamic theocracies in the middle east is intolerant and violent we have common ground.

If you think some terrorists use religious rhetoric from the Q'uran to justify violence we have common ground.

If you want to find common ground, do so.

I don't blame you that there are different interpretations. I point out that there are different interpretations and not all of them have violence as an outcome.

 

[Ropey]

If you wanted to discuss what's wrong with Sharia Law as it's practiced in Islamic theocracies in the Middle East, we would find lots of common ground.

Instead, you assert that Islam is inherently violent and evil. I disagree. We're at an impasse.

Please quote my words where I say Islam is inherently violent and evil.

Too much work. If you don't think Islam is inherently violent and evil then say so, we have common ground.

If you think Sharia Law as practiced in Islamic theocracies in the middle east is intolerant and violent we have common ground.

If you think some terrorists use religious rhetoric from the Q'uran to justify violence we have common ground.

If you want to find common ground, do so.

Too much work? To find common ground? You have put words in my mouth in many of your posts on this thread.

For common ground, you must support those posts or back off from them. Show proof of the things you have indicted me on.

You choose to "forget them" and move on with more conversation? And you want me to move to finding common ground with you?