About ACORN...

[CrusaderFrank]

ACORN is a criminal enterprise and should be shut down under RICO

 

[namvet]

You think the police are lying?

I could give two cents what the police say. If you have ANY doubts that ACORN is a corrupt organization wasting OUR tax dollars for their corruption, then you are much dumber than I initially thought.

Forgive me, I thought you were someone that could think rationally. Apparently I was mistaken...you get all your thoughts from the media.

If you want to accuse the cops of lying about this, fine. I don't think they are lying.

so you apporve of ACORN just because your black?????

 

[Ravi]

I could give two cents what the police say. If you have ANY doubts that ACORN is a corrupt organization wasting OUR tax dollars for their corruption, then you are much dumber than I initially thought.

Forgive me, I thought you were someone that could think rationally. Apparently I was mistaken...you get all your thoughts from the media.

If you want to accuse the cops of lying about this, fine. I don't think they are lying.

so you apporve of ACORN just because your black?????

Could you be any more retarded? Or racist?

 

[Si modo]

ACORN is a criminal enterprise and should be shut down under RICO

I tend to agree, but don't quite have a good grasp of how it applies. Not doubting it, just want to know how so that I am informed. ACORN stinks to high heaven, and I want to know as much as possible about how to stop them and how they are organized (the latter is very difficult).

 

[Ame®icano]

I could give two cents what the police say. If you have ANY doubts that ACORN is a corrupt organization wasting OUR tax dollars for their corruption, then you are much dumber than I initially thought.

Forgive me, I thought you were someone that could think rationally. Apparently I was mistaken...you get all your thoughts from the media.

If you want to accuse the cops of lying about this, fine. I don't think they are lying.

Again, I could care less what the cops say. This is about ACORN.

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

I could care less that the cops say. Especially if cop is a police detective who's covering his cousin's ass.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The only thing that amazes me about this whole situation, including all of the previous election fraud convictions that have been rendered against ACORN members, is why on Earth ACORN is not the subject of a Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) investigation.

The only possible answer to that is political corruption at the highest levels.

Not sure why you say that. ACORN employees committed fraud by filling out false voter registration claims. ACORN didn't condone that behavior...what benefit would it be to them to turn in false registrations? I can't see any benefit at all. Micky Mouse and Donald Duck? GMAFB. And ACORN is the one that turned their employees in.

ACORN is required by law to turn in every application they receive, even if they think or know that it is false.

If members of their organization commit those fraudulent acts anymore than once in a ten year period, then the organization can be prosecuted under the Criminal (as distinguished from Civil) RICO statute.

Wait....more coming on this.

 

[Ravi]

The only thing that amazes me about this whole situation, including all of the previous election fraud convictions that have been rendered against ACORN members, is why on Earth ACORN is not the subject of a Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) investigation.

The only possible answer to that is political corruption at the highest levels.

Not sure why you say that. ACORN employees committed fraud by filling out false voter registration claims. ACORN didn't condone that behavior...what benefit would it be to them to turn in false registrations? I can't see any benefit at all. Micky Mouse and Donald Duck? GMAFB. And ACORN is the one that turned their employees in.

ACORN is required by law to turn in every application they receive, even if they think or know that it is false.

If members of their organization commit those fraudulent acts anymore than once in a ten year period, then the organization can be prosecuted under the Criminal (as distinguished from Civil) RICO statute.

Wait....more coming on this.

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

 

[Ame®icano]

Not sure why you say that. ACORN employees committed fraud by filling out false voter registration claims. ACORN didn't condone that behavior...what benefit would it be to them to turn in false registrations? I can't see any benefit at all. Micky Mouse and Donald Duck? GMAFB. And ACORN is the one that turned their employees in.

ACORN is required by law to turn in every application they receive, even if they think or know that it is false.

If members of their organization commit those fraudulent acts anymore than once in a ten year period, then the organization can be prosecuted under the Criminal (as distinguished from Civil) RICO statute.

Wait....more coming on this.

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

Is he getting their paycheck?

 

[Tech_Esq]

ACORN is a criminal enterprise and should be shut down under RICO

I tend to agree, but don't quite have a good grasp of how it applies. Not doubting it, just want to know how so that I am informed. ACORN stinks to high heaven, and I want to know as much as possible about how to stop them and how they are organized (the latter is very difficult).

I was researching the elements of the Criminal RICO statue so I could demonstrate how ACORN could be prosecuted to answer your question. But, happily, I found a former US Attorney has already done all the work on it. (And he probably has more credibility on maintaining a criminal complaint than I do....lol). So first, here are the elements of RICO:

RICO cases need three key elements. Criminal charges can be brought against: (i) a "person," who is part of an (ii) an "enterprise" which includes any legal entity (iii) which engages in a "pattern of racketeering activity" (defined as committing any 2 of 35 named crimes within a 10-year period). And yes, fraud is one of the crimes that can trigger RICO.

And here is a link to the complete Niagara Times article: Why Isn’t ACORN Vote Fraud A Criminal RICO?

The reader will note that this is only for Vote Fraud and doesn't even have to do with the current alleged flap. Those could be added as additional counts against it in the RICO complaint. The general rule of thumb on these is that you throw as many counts in as you can in case any get struck so you can still make your required 2 counts.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Not sure why you say that. ACORN employees committed fraud by filling out false voter registration claims. ACORN didn't condone that behavior...what benefit would it be to them to turn in false registrations? I can't see any benefit at all. Micky Mouse and Donald Duck? GMAFB. And ACORN is the one that turned their employees in.

ACORN is required by law to turn in every application they receive, even if they think or know that it is false.

If members of their organization commit those fraudulent acts anymore than once in a ten year period, then the organization can be prosecuted under the Criminal (as distinguished from Civil) RICO statute.

Wait....more coming on this.

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

Of course. And unpaid volunteers. They are under the organization and control of the management of the organization and acting in furtherance of its goals.

 

[Ravi]

If members of their organization commit those fraudulent acts anymore than once in a ten year period, then the organization can be prosecuted under the Criminal (as distinguished from Civil) RICO statute.

Wait....more coming on this.

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

Of course. And unpaid volunteers. They are under the organization and control of the management of the organization and acting in furtherance of its goals.

I read your link...not saying you are wrong, but it was a little over the top partisan for me to believe it.

 

[Si modo]

ACORN is a criminal enterprise and should be shut down under RICO

I tend to agree, but don't quite have a good grasp of how it applies. Not doubting it, just want to know how so that I am informed. ACORN stinks to high heaven, and I want to know as much as possible about how to stop them and how they are organized (the latter is very difficult).

I was researching the elements of the Criminal RICO statue so I could demonstrate how ACORN could be prosecuted to answer your question. But, happily, I found a former US Attorney has already done all the work on it. (And he probably has more credibility on maintaining a criminal complaint than I do....lol). So first, here are the elements of RICO:

RICO cases need three key elements. Criminal charges can be brought against: (i) a "person," who is part of an (ii) an "enterprise" which includes any legal entity (iii) which engages in a "pattern of racketeering activity" (defined as committing any 2 of 35 named crimes within a 10-year period). And yes, fraud is one of the crimes that can trigger RICO.

And here is a link to the complete Niagara Times article: Why Isn’t ACORN Vote Fraud A Criminal RICO?

The reader will note that this is only for Vote Fraud and doesn't even have to do with the current alleged flap. Those could be added as additional counts against it in the RICO complaint. The general rule of thumb on these is that you throw as many counts in as you can in case any get struck so you can still make your required 2 counts.

Thank you very much. I've even bookmarked that link.

RICO is the way to go. The recent (alleged) crimes add to that pot. Now, we need a prosecutor.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Where we were particularly able to "clean up" in RICO cases was in counts of fraud. Particularly mail fraud and wire fraud. Mail fraud is anytime you send fraudulent information using the mails. This can be fraudulent forms that were filled out in one place and then sent to another. And, wire fraud. Wire fraud is anytime you use the telephone to convey fraudulent information in furtherance of the crime.

You can just imagine the laundry list you can come up with looking at ACORN of either of these activities. Wire fraud is harder because you need an official to file an affidavit supporting the wire fraud and that usually has to be supported by some action the official took because of the fraud. But given the election activities and other governmental relationships that ACORN has, this probably happens a hundred times a day across the country.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

Of course. And unpaid volunteers. They are under the organization and control of the management of the organization and acting in furtherance of its goals.

I read your link...not saying you are wrong, but it was a little over the top partisan for me to believe it.

Are you accusing a US Attorney of being partisan? Who are you Alberto Gonzales? US Attorneys play it down the middle. This is about enforcement of the rule of law not politics.

Don't you remember that from the summer of 2007?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Members of their organization including part-time seasonal workers?

Of course. And unpaid volunteers. They are under the organization and control of the management of the organization and acting in furtherance of its goals.

I read your link...not saying you are wrong, but it was a little over the top partisan for me to believe it.

If there is an element of the criminal RICO statute that you have a question about whether it can be satisfied, I'd like to hear which one you think it is and why you think it can't be satisfied.

 

[namvet]

Forgive me, I thought you were someone that could think rationally. Apparently I was mistaken...you get all your thoughts from the media.

If you want to accuse the cops of lying about this, fine. I don't think they are lying.

so you apporve of ACORN just because your black?????

Could you be any more retarded? Or racist?

If you think that a czar is unconstitutional
... you might be a racist!

If you are opposed to a government run health care system
... you might be a racist!

If you think that it is unAmerican to bow before the Saudi King
... you might be a racist!

If you think that the stimulus plan has been an utter failure
... you might be a racist!

If you think that this administration is driving the deficit up at alarming rates
... you might be a racist!

If you think that this is a nation based on Christian values
... you might be a racist!

If you think that communism and socialism are NOT the solution
... you might be a racist!

If you value the 1st Amendment, but think that the media is state-run
... you might be a racist!

If you are sick and tired of the race card being played
... you might be a racist!

If you are a racist according to the current liberal agenda
... you might just be an American!

im finished with you

 

[Ravi]

Of course. And unpaid volunteers. They are under the organization and control of the management of the organization and acting in furtherance of its goals.

I read your link...not saying you are wrong, but it was a little over the top partisan for me to believe it.

Are you accusing a US Attorney of being partisan? Who are you Alberto Gonzales? US Attorneys play it down the middle. This is about enforcement of the rule of law not politics.

Don't you remember that from the summer of 2007?

I remember that many of Bush's attorney generals were tasked with finding information on ACORN to convict them and when they couldn't they were fired.

 

[Si modo]

 

[Tech_Esq]

I read your link...not saying you are wrong, but it was a little over the top partisan for me to believe it.

Are you accusing a US Attorney of being partisan? Who are you Alberto Gonzales? US Attorneys play it down the middle. This is about enforcement of the rule of law not politics.

Don't you remember that from the summer of 2007?

I remember that many of Bush's attorney generals were tasked with finding information on ACORN to convict them and when they couldn't they were fired.

You mean Bush's US Attorneys. There is only one Attorney General. I listened to the hearings quite extensively and don't remember ACORN ever being mentioned in them. Most of the accusations were that instances of alleged political corruption involving Dem official was not prosecuted. I think there were maybe three or so instances of that amongst all of the US Attorneys and some of those allegations were pretty lame. But, I don't remember anything about ACORN.

Maybe you could give me a news report from then to refresh my recollection?

 

[Ravi]

Are you accusing a US Attorney of being partisan? Who are you Alberto Gonzales? US Attorneys play it down the middle. This is about enforcement of the rule of law not politics.

Don't you remember that from the summer of 2007?

I remember that many of Bush's attorney generals were tasked with finding information on ACORN to convict them and when they couldn't they were fired.

You mean Bush's US Attorneys. There is only one Attorney General. I listened to the hearings quite extensively and don't remember ACORN ever being mentioned in them. Most of the accusations were that instances of alleged political corruption involving Dem official was not prosecuted. I think there were maybe three or so instances of that amongst all of the US Attorneys and some of those allegations were pretty lame. But, I don't remember anything about ACORN.

Maybe you could give me a news report from then to refresh my recollection?

There were several, but here's a quick one.

In October 2008, a report by the Department of Justice's Inspector General found that Iglesias had been wrongfully dismissed because he had refused to pursue prosecutions against the Democrat-linked community organization ACORN and a prominent New Mexico Democrat. "The real reasons for Iglesias' removal were the complaints from New Mexico Republican politicians and party activists about how Iglesias handled voter fraud and public corruption cases in the state," the report says. The Inspector General's report says that Senator Domenici's complaints were the "primary" reason Iglesias was fired. [3]

David Iglesias (attorney) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From what I know of RICO, there must be organizational racketeering to bring charges. In the case of ACORN, there has never been anything to point to that.

Why do you think during that dark period when the Republicans were in total control of the country they didn't use RICO to bring down ACORN? Because they had nothing.

But this is way off topic from the OP.