Zone1 Abortion Policy Poll

[Foxfyre]

So, where can I read about this?

I just ask because I've never seen a single instance of it. If you're not just making it all up, you should have no problems showing examples.

Now me, I can easily show examples proving you wrong.

For example, the referendum in Ohio specifically put a cutoff at viability.

The Michigan referendum? Again, viability.

California? Again, restrictions after viability.

That's odd. In every case, the pro-choicers are happy to compromise. Yet you claim the opposite, even though the evidence doesn't back you up.

How California created the nation’s easiest abortion access — and then went further

California once criminalized abortion. Now it's the US leader on abortion rights, and may become a 'sanctuary' for out-of-state seekers.

calmatters.org

How late in pregnancy each state allows abortions

Abortion up until this point was still legal at later stages in pregnancy — but that's expected to change.

www.axios.com

 

[martybegan]

Oh, N-word, please.

the few advocacy groups for sensible gun laws have NOWHERE near the resources of the National Rampage Assocation.

They might now. But luckily there are other orgs out there beside the NRA.

 

[JoeB131]

They might now. But luckily there are other orgs out there beside the NRA.

Because the crazies need their guns!!!!

 

[martybegan]

Because the crazies need their guns!!!!

View attachment 916500

Because normal people need to be able to defend themselves, especially since now policing is being constrained.

 

[JoeB131]

Because normal people need to be able to defend themselves, especially since now policing is being constrained.

Police are being constrained? News to me. Seems they are still doing the same shit they are always doing.

They killed just as more people in 2023 as they did in 2019. the only difference is they stopped reporting the race of people they kill.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

 

[martybegan]

Police are being constrained? News to me. Seems they are still doing the same shit they are always doing.

They killed just as more people in 2023 as they did in 2019. the only difference is they stopped reporting the race of people they kill.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

View attachment 916544

Meanwhile ignoring the crime increases throughout the country, mostly in blue areas.

 

[JoeB131]

Meanwhile ignoring the crime increases throughout the country, mostly in blue areas.

Actually, Crime has been declining since 2020 and Trump Plague/Recession/Riots

Violent Crime Decreases to Pre-Pandemic Levels: FBI Report

While violent crime decreased, property crimes rose substantially, according to FBI data.

time.com

 

[martybegan]

Actually, Crime has been declining since 2020 and Trump Plague/Recession/Riots

Violent Crime Decreases to Pre-Pandemic Levels: FBI Report

While violent crime decreased, property crimes rose substantially, according to FBI data.

time.com

Property crime increased substantially.

And you have to assume the violent crime reduction has been massaged with classification changes as well as lack of reporting in many cases.

People don't feel safe, especially in blue "defund the police" strongholds.

 

[JoeB131]

Property crime increased substantially.

And you have to assume the violent crime reduction has been massaged with classification changes as well as lack of reporting in many cases.

People don't feel safe, especially in blue "defund the police" strongholds.

Ah, so unable to come up with facts, you rely on "feelings". Got it.

 

[martybegan]

Ah, so unable to come up with facts, you rely on "feelings". Got it.

The "facts" you post admit to the property crime increase, and the rest is probably along the lines of "the chocolate ration has been increased from 30 grams to 25 grams"

Being soft on non political crime is the hallmark of the progressive agenda, and it has come home to roost.

 

[JoeB131]

The "facts" you post admit to the property crime increase, and the rest is probably along the lines of "the chocolate ration has been increased from 30 grams to 25 grams"

Being soft on non political crime is the hallmark of the progressive agenda, and it has come home to roost.

Wow, you need to get Orwell off the brain, man.

Crime shot up during Trump Plague because of Trump's mismanagement of the economy, Covid and the civil unrest that followed.

It's calmed back down now, but you guys just don't want to admit that because scaring white people is really all you have.

 

[martybegan]

Wow, you need to get Orwell off the brain, man.

Crime shot up during Trump Plague because of Trump's mismanagement of the economy, Covid and the civil unrest that followed.

It's calmed back down now, but you guys just don't want to admit that because scaring white people is really all you have.

He was right about the mindset of the current hard left. Is that why it bothers you when I bring him up?

No, Crime shot up because State and local Soros prosecutors decided criminals are the real victims.

It's not white people mostly suffering due to it, but law abiding minorities, the ones you want disarmed and helpless.

 

[playtime]

How California created the nation’s easiest abortion access — and then went further

California once criminalized abortion. Now it's the US leader on abortion rights, and may become a 'sanctuary' for out-of-state seekers.

calmatters.org

How late in pregnancy each state allows abortions

Abortion up until this point was still legal at later stages in pregnancy — but that's expected to change.

www.axios.com

The reasons for termination of pregnancy in the third trimester​

Results: One hundred and thirteen (37%) third trimester terminations of pregnancy were associated with false negative resulted from the results of earlier screening tests. In 15 terminations (5%), the decision was postponed, although the poor fetal prognosis was established earlier. In 55 (18%) the diagnosis was not possible earlier than the third trimester, and in 122 (40%) the diagnosis was possible earlier but the poor prognosis for the fetus was not established until the third trimester. Maternal morbidity due to termination of pregnancy was similar in the second and third trimester.

Conclusion: One-third of late terminations of pregnancy could have been avoided by more efficient screening in the second trimester. However, because fetal prognosis is not always clear when a malformation is diagnosed, postponing the decision until fetal development allows more thorough evaluation and may avoid unnecessary termination of pregnancy in the second trimester. This could be the main beneficial aspect of not setting a limit to the gestational age for performing termination of pregnancy.
The reasons for termination of pregnancy in the third trimester - PubMed

Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era​

Ivette Gomez, Alina Salganicoff, and Laurie Sobel
Published: Feb 21, 2024

• Abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. The procedures are expensive and often require travel and lost wages. They normally require treatment over multiple days and are only performed by a subset of all abortion providers.
• Claims of abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth” are false. These scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal in the United States.
• Reasons individuals seek abortions later in pregnancy include medical concerns such as fetal anomalies or maternal life endangerment, as well as barriers to care that cause delays in obtaining an abortion.
• Fourteen states currently ban abortion and 11 have gestational bans that restrict abortion at a certain point in pregnancy. An additional 18 states ban abortion at or near “viability”, the point where a fetus can survive outside the womb.
• Access to abortions later in pregnancy has always been limited; there are few providers that offer the services and the costs are often prohibitive.

Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era | KFF

 

[Foxfyre]

The reasons for termination of pregnancy in the third trimester​

Results: One hundred and thirteen (37%) third trimester terminations of pregnancy were associated with false negative resulted from the results of earlier screening tests. In 15 terminations (5%), the decision was postponed, although the poor fetal prognosis was established earlier. In 55 (18%) the diagnosis was not possible earlier than the third trimester, and in 122 (40%) the diagnosis was possible earlier but the poor prognosis for the fetus was not established until the third trimester. Maternal morbidity due to termination of pregnancy was similar in the second and third trimester.

Conclusion: One-third of late terminations of pregnancy could have been avoided by more efficient screening in the second trimester. However, because fetal prognosis is not always clear when a malformation is diagnosed, postponing the decision until fetal development allows more thorough evaluation and may avoid unnecessary termination of pregnancy in the second trimester. This could be the main beneficial aspect of not setting a limit to the gestational age for performing termination of pregnancy.
The reasons for termination of pregnancy in the third trimester - PubMed

Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era​

Ivette Gomez, Alina Salganicoff, and Laurie Sobel
Published: Feb 21, 2024

• Abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. The procedures are expensive and often require travel and lost wages. They normally require treatment over multiple days and are only performed by a subset of all abortion providers.
• Claims of abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth” are false. These scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal in the United States.
• Reasons individuals seek abortions later in pregnancy include medical concerns such as fetal anomalies or maternal life endangerment, as well as barriers to care that cause delays in obtaining an abortion.
• Fourteen states currently ban abortion and 11 have gestational bans that restrict abortion at a certain point in pregnancy. An additional 18 states ban abortion at or near “viability”, the point where a fetus can survive outside the womb.
• Access to abortions later in pregnancy has always been limited; there are few providers that offer the services and the costs are often prohibitive.

Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era | KFF

I've seen the statistic, data, whatever for years now. I know ALL the arguments. It still boils down to what is right and wrong to different people. There are those that think aborting a late term pregnancy for ANY reason should be a woman's right. Others believe that a human life is a stake and must be considered. Probably no state in the union will have identical laws regulating abortion. But SCOTUS was right to put the matter back with the people and away from the federal government that was never given any constitutional authority to dictate matters of morality.

 

[playtime]

I've seen the statistic, data, whatever for years now. I know ALL the arguments. It still boils down to what is right and wrong to different people. There are those that think aborting a late term pregnancy for ANY reason should be a woman's right.

there are. yet that does not mean it happens. just like the extremists who think a fertilized egg is the same as a post born human with a life history.

Others believe that a human life is a stake and must be considered.

human life? no ... bit before viability. it's human DNA up until that point. as was the case after roe v wade became legal. nothing has really changed 'cept for the gov'ment taking control of one's autonomy.

Probably no state in the union will have identical laws regulating abortion. But SCOTUS was right to put the matter back with the people

which people? certainly not the people whose uterus' are highjacked for 9 months.

and away from the federal government that was never given any constitutional authority to dictate matters of morality.

but but but morality can be dictated by the state?

 

[Care4all]

.

What would have happened to those women a couple hundred years ago?

.

Abortions weren't illegal a couple of hundred years ago, until after quickening (around 4 months)...under Common Law....from all that I've read on it.

 

[Foxfyre]

there are. yet that does not mean it happens. just like the extremists who think a fertilized egg is the same as a post born human with a life history.




human life? no ... bit before viability. it's human DNA up until that point. as was the case after roe v wade became legal. nothing has really changed 'cept for the gov'ment taking control of one's autonomy.



which people? certainly not the people whose uterus' are highjacked for 9 months.



but but but morality can be dictated by the state?

I generally will not respond to chopped up posts that destroy context and intent of a person's conversation.

It is unfortunate that you equate a human pregnancy to 'highjacking a uterus.' That is so over the top I'll just leave you to it. But news flash: that developing human in that uterus had absolutely no choice whatsoever in the whole thing. But it is a developing human being.

And yes, the Founders intended the states could pass whatever laws they wished that were not specifically forbidden by the Constitution. And those passed by the Puritans were pretty draconian. But every little theocracy that existed at the time the Constitution was ratified had dissolved by the end of the Eighteenth Century and no new ones developed other than the quasi theocracy established by the original Mormons in Utah that has also pretty much voluntarily dissolved.

 

[JoeB131]

He was right about the mindset of the current hard left. Is that why it bothers you when I bring him up?

I just find him an overrated writer. Except for nutbag libertarians, no one would want to read his book a second time.
But we all had to suffer through him in HS Lit class because the teachers were too fucking lazy to learn new material.

No, Crime shot up because State and local Soros prosecutors decided criminals are the real victims.

No, Crime shot up because when you lock a bunch of people in their houses with people who can barely stand each other under normal circumstances, combine that with high unemployment and economic anxiety, and throw a few race riots in on top of that, Crime is going to go up.

I wish the Prison-Industrial complex stopped being the go-to answer, because it clearly doesn't work.

It's not white people mostly suffering due to it, but law abiding minorities, the ones you want disarmed and helpless.

Most gun crimes are domestic violence. Its' why the murder rate shot up during Covid. More guns did not make that situation better.

 

[mamooth]

But SCOTUS was right to put the matter back with the people and away from the federal government that was never given any constitutional authority to dictate matters of morality.

Which is why the whole Republican Party is now demanding a federally-enforced nationwide abortion ban.

You do condemn the Republican party for that position, right? After all, you just defined it as tyranny.

Oh, California doesn't allow post-viability abortions, so your claim of wild pro-aborts failed there.

Your own source said the only state that allows third trimester abortions is Virginia. One state. Way to go in shooting down your own claims.

So why did you push a story about pro-choicers not accepting compromise, when it's only your side that acts like that?

We compromise. We're mainstream. We're reasonable.

You don't compromise. You're on the extremist fringe. You're fanatical and can't be reasoned with.

Now, maybe I can somehow find a way to work in some hysterics about phantom "Marxists". Wouldn't that be fun? Dang, I just can't. My mind refuses to make words try to mean something they don't actually mean.

 

[martybegan]

I just find him an overrated writer. Except for nutbag libertarians, no one would want to read his book a second time.
But we all had to suffer through him in HS Lit class because the teachers were too fucking lazy to learn new material.




No, Crime shot up because when you lock a bunch of people in their houses with people who can barely stand each other under normal circumstances, combine that with high unemployment and economic anxiety, and throw a few race riots in on top of that, Crime is going to go up.

I wish the Prison-Industrial complex stopped being the go-to answer, because it clearly doesn't work.



Most gun crimes are domestic violence. Its' why the murder rate shot up during Covid. More guns did not make that situation better.

Because he targets and figures out the worst of his own side. i.e. people like you.

That might have been a workable excuse in 2020, but in 2024 it's not. The "defund the police" and the "criminals are the real victims" movements are the cause of our current problems. Some people just need to be locked up.

Most gun "crimes" are suicides.