Abortion is sexist

[Shogun]

Shog, as soon as you are able to become pregnant, it will become an equality issue. Until that time, there is no equality possible.

I think it would also obligate the state to care for a child if the state forces a woman to give birth. Because at that point, the state is responsible for life.

Suck it up and quit your bitchin.

bullshit. the ability to become pregnant isn't a blank check to kill babies. You can insist on such tripe over and over and over again but it won't make it any more true than your comprehension of labor laws.


eat me. The pendulum is swinging back and you know it. Have fun crying about your right to kill children after the majority agrees that you should have made a better pre-zipper choice.

 

[BrianH]

it boils down to one thing, the father will never, ever, in his entire life of living, have to go thru 9 months of gestation, to deliver his child. He will never have to put his body at risk, he will never acqire high blood pressure becvause of pregnancy, he will never have to be cut opened with a c-section to see his child be born, he will never get an epidermal, he will not ever have to stretch out his vagina or have to get it stitched to tighten it because of delivering his child, he will never have to go through an eptopic pregnancy or have to take in 40 units of other people's blood becuse of it.....

SHALL I GO ON......?

I think anyone, using any kind of logic....can understand it brian....especially if you consider what i was ''saying'' above....and I am prolife, but i can certainly understand WHY it is up to the woman in the end....

MEN should accept this reality....if they DO, then it is easier to understand why the man's final choice of when and if, to ''cover up'', IS HIS last chance to determine his paternal destiny....

care

LOL...are you nuts? A man has to DEAL with every bit of that. Just having to deal with that will raise blood-pressure. It has nothing to do with physical responsibility. Say a woman doesn't want her child, but is required to have it and turn it over to the man. Sure, she goes through 9 months of a pregnancy, but the man will go through the rest of his life raising a child. And in the same breath, say the man doesn't want it, but the woman goes ahead and has it, the man still has to just deal based on the mothers own personal choice.


And, you lay the sole responsiblity on the man to NOT have a child, when ti takes two to tango. Bottom line, if you don't want a kid, you and the man make sure you protect yourself. That's the same double standard I'm talking about. If the woman wants the child, and the man doesn't, he should have kept is dong in his pants--or covered it up. However, no one holds the woman responsible for making sure she's protected and/or making sure her partner is "covered" as well. It's not a one way street Care.

The fact is, a man's future relies on a woman's personal choice. Is that really legal that a woman can dictate a man's life based on her own personal decision, while at the same time, the woman can opt. out and choose her own future? That woman can knowingly suck 18 years worth of money out of a man whether he wants to or not, while if the woman doesn't want the child, she can simply just get rid of it. It's not fair and you know it.

 

[Ravi]

The pendulum is swinging back and you know it.

No it isn't. This issue is one of the right's favorite wedge issues. There is no way they will ever outlaw abortion again. Keeps people voting for them and if they were stupid enough to outlaw it they'd lose elections for the foreseeable future.

On a side note, I hope one day you actually figure out what equality really means.

 

[Shogun]

The only problem I have with that, is that "naturally" it takes a man and a woman to make a child. Not one or the other. It does not make sense that only a woman should have the power to control the life of a mutual creation. It totally excuses the woman for taking responsibility for her actions. If the woman chooses to have the baby, and the guy wants to abort it. He is unwillingly forced to deal with his responsibility of his actions. And the bad part is, no one cares. They say, "well he should have kept it in his pants". He's then forced to pay money for 18 years for a child he didn't want. However, on the other hand, a woman doesn't keep her pants on and gets pregnant. She wants to abort the child and NOT take responsibility for her actions. And the law says that this is ok. While at the same time, the father of the child may want to raise it. Well, too bad for him. He just has to deal with his offspring being terminated against his will. IMO, it does not make logical sense that it should only be up to the woman. I think that if the man is willing to raise a child that the woman wants to abort, then she should have to give birth and hand it over to the father. And if the woman aborts it, the man should be able to press charges. This creates a problem we have today with some women getting pregnant and/or not using any form of preventatives because they know whatever happens, they'll get a paycheck every month. And if they don't want the child, then no biggie, they'll get rid of it.

thats exactly it. MEN are physically more capable than women but you wont hear a single woman acknowledging the natural unfairness of labor. You won't hear g.i. jane wannabes talk about their inability to carry 100 pounds for miles like a man can. You won't hear about physical differences in the brain that make men better at math and science than woman. ohhhh no. THEN it's sexism. THEN it;s "the system" keeping women from enjoying equality.


yet, when it comes to the life of a genetic individual that is the direct product between BOTH men and women.. well.. THEN it's only natural to regard one sex above the other. Bullshit. In this day and age of birth control and sexual choice this "it can never be equal" argument is a laughing joke.


responsibility, bitches.. It's more than your knee-jerk excuse to remind a man of his 18 year obligation.

 

[Ravi]

LOL...are you nuts? A man has to DEAL with every bit of that.

No offense, Brian, but you're being an idiot.

 

[Ravi]

I'd really love to know if you guys that are crying over some perceived inequality in this issue actually have this conversation before you hop into bed with someone.

 

[Ravi]

You won't hear about physical differences in the brain that make men better at math and science than woman.

That's because there aren't any. Do you ever read anything current or are you still rifling through old Boy's Life magazines?

 

[Shogun]

No it isn't. This issue is one of the right's favorite wedge issues. There is no way they will ever outlaw abortion again. Keeps people voting for them and if they were stupid enough to outlaw it they'd lose elections for the foreseeable future.

On a side note, I hope one day you actually figure out what equality really means.

you keep thinking that. A lot of people also thought we'd never see a black president either. Watch as the supreme court gets PACKED.

on a side note, I hope your kids realize how lucky they are to have made it past the "i don't feel like being responsible with my pussy" stage in your life.

 

[Shogun]

That's because there aren't any. Do you ever read anything current or are you still rifling through old Boy's Life magazines?

you are wrong. go consult a psych prof and ask him if you are capable of abstract spacial recognition like a man it. Do you read anything outside to the lilith fair tour guide and tori amos liner notes?



The New Sex Scorecard
Men and women's minds really do work differently -- but not on everything.


Minds of Their Own

The difference between the sexes may boil down to this: dividing the tasks of processing experience. Male and female minds are innately drawn to different aspects of the world around them. And there's new evidence that testosterone may be calling some surprising shots.

Women's perceptual skills are oriented to quick -- call it intuitive -- people reading. Females are gifted at detecting the feelings and thoughts of others, inferring intentions, absorbing contextual clues and responding in emotionally appropriate ways. They empathize. Tuned to others, they more readily see alternate sides of an argument. Such empathy fosters communication and primes females for attachment.

Women, in other words, seem to be hard-wired for a top-down, big-picture take. Men might be programmed to look at things from the bottom up (no surprise there).

Men focus first on minute detail, and operate most easily with a certain detachment. They construct rules-based analyses of the natural world, inanimate objects and events. In the coinage of Cambridge University psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, Ph.D., they systemize.

The superiority of males at spatial cognition and females' talent for language probably subserve the more basic difference of systemizing versus empathizing. The two mental styles manifest in the toys kids prefer (humanlike dolls versus mechanical trucks); verbal impatience in males (ordering rather than negotiating); and navigation (women personalize space by finding landmarks; men see a geometric system, taking directional cues in the layout of routes).
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-2832.html


but this NATURAL difference doesn't keep you from crying like a fucking martyr about the staggering majority of men in math and sciences, does it?

 

[Shogun]

I'd really love to know if you guys that are crying over some perceived inequality in this issue actually have this conversation before you hop into bed with someone.

and Id love to know if you ever thought to do the same with your own genitalia BEFORE hopping into bed.. same standard, hook.

 

[Ravi]

Like a man it? What exactly is a man it?

2003. Like I said, try to read something more current.

And nice wus out of answering my question.

 

[Care4all]

LOL...are you nuts? A man has to DEAL with every bit of that. Just having to deal with that will raise blood-pressure. It has nothing to do with physical responsibility. Say a woman doesn't want her child, but is required to have it and turn it over to the man. Sure, she goes through 9 months of a pregnancy, but the man will go through the rest of his life raising a child. And in the same breath, say the man doesn't want it, but the woman goes ahead and has it, the man still has to just deal based on the mothers own personal choice.


And, you lay the sole responsiblity on the man to NOT have a child, when ti takes two to tango. Bottom line, if you don't want a kid, you and the man make sure you protect yourself. That's the same double standard I'm talking about. If the woman wants the child, and the man doesn't, he should have kept is dong in his pants--or covered it up. However, no one holds the woman responsible for making sure she's protected and/or making sure her partner is "covered" as well. It's not a one way street Care.

The fact is, a man's future relies on a woman's personal choice. Is that really legal that a woman can dictate a man's life based on her own personal decision, while at the same time, the woman can opt. out and choose her own future? That woman can knowingly suck 18 years worth of money out of a man whether he wants to or not, while if the woman doesn't want the child, she can simply just get rid of it. It's not fair and you know it.

silly....

i am NOT laying the sole responsibility on the man, THOUGH IT ALWAYS WAS on the man in the PAST....he got his girl pregnant, he married her.....that was proper.....

i am just saying, as a man, KNOW your limits....up to the point of penetration, it is up to you to be responsible for yourself....after that point, it is up to the mother to be if she gets pregnant and delivers, you then have a say again after birth, in parenthood.

And yes, it is also up to the woman, to keep her legs closed or use birth control, if she gets pregnant, then the final say so is hers....

THOUGH I believe she will discuss it with the father to be more times than not, and he too will be a part of her decision making process....as it stands now, even with abortion being legal.

care

 

[BrianH]

No offense, Brian, but you're being an idiot.

Ok, you're right. A man does not have to deal with his wife's mood swings, cravings, hot flashes, morning sickness, and all other problems experienced in regards to birthing a child. Granted, they do not physically deal with direct problems related to carrying the child. But to sit there and claim that men just sit back and don't have to deal with a child or a pregnancy is pretty assinine in itself. I'll admit that women suffer the direct physicality of it, but I will not agree that men don't have to deal with these things. It's a pretty sexist view to claim that to be so IMO. It's the exact view that causes this problem.

 

[Ravi]

Care, I don't know if I agree with you on the physical dangers to a woman of carrying a child. While they exist, I don't think they matter to any extent where they determine who gets to decide. The simple fact is that it is the woman's body and not the man's. I can't think of any circumstance where a woman gets to make a decision over what a man can do or not do with his body. And I can't think of any reason why a woman can't say what she does with hers.

 

[AllieBaba]

Brian says:
"Ok, you're right. A man does not have to deal with his wife's mood swings, cravings, hot flashes, morning sickness, and all other problems experienced in regards to birthing a child. Granted, they do not physically deal with direct problems related to carrying the child. But to sit there and claim that men just sit back and don't have to deal with a child or a pregnancy is pretty assinine in itself. I'll admit that women suffer the direct physicality of it, but I will not agree that men don't have to deal with these things. It's a pretty sexist view to claim that to be so IMO. It's the exact view that causes this problem."


Dear, I'm afraid that dealing with a pregnant woman when you're not at work or sleeping is much, MUCH different than being the pregnant woman.

That's one of the attitudes that drives pregnant women nuts. Just to save you suffering in the future. I'm thinking of you, because that sort of attitude could make your 9 months of waiting pretty miserable.

Lots and lots of women go through pregnancy completely alone. I've been through 4 pregnancies (and one which ended in miscarriage) and had to listen to dumbasses tell me, "It's natural for women to have babies, it's not the end of the world" and "Oh there's nothing to it" so you can understand why we get a little snarly. Men just have no concept (and they just can't, nothing personal) what it's like to carry a child in your body for 9 months...then give birth...then deal with life after the babie's born and your body is just all messed up, and will never be the same.

I'm not complaining, I think it's all great. But men honestly are clueless. I've never met any who had any inkling, despite their "sensitivity", how monumental it really is. And I'm including at least one male OB/GYN in that number. Great doctor, but sadly, male and therefore clueless.

 

[Ravi]

Ok, you're right. A man does not have to deal with his wife's mood swings, cravings, hot flashes, morning sickness, and all other problems experienced in regards to birthing a child. Granted, they do not physically deal with direct problems related to carrying the child. But to sit there and claim that men just sit back and don't have to deal with a child or a pregnancy is pretty assinine in itself. I'll admit that women suffer the direct physicality of it, but I will not agree that men don't have to deal with these things. It's a pretty sexist view to claim that to be so IMO. It's the exact view that causes this problem.

Okay, as long as you can agree that dealing with them as a third party isn't quite the same thing.

Regardless, that argument has no merit with me.

 

[BrianH]

silly....

i am NOT laying the sole responsibility on the man, THOUGH IT ALWAYS WAS on the man in the PAST....he got his girl pregnant, he married her.....that was proper.....

i am just saying, as a man, KNOW your limits....up to the point of penetration, it is up to you to be responsible for yourself....after that point, it is up to the mother to be if she gets pregnant and delivers, you then have a say again after birth, in parenthood.

And yes, it is also up to the woman, to keep her legs closed or use birth control, if she gets pregnant, then the final say so is hers....

THOUGH I believe she will discuss it with the father to be more times than not, and he too will be a part of her decision making process....as it stands now, even with abortion being legal.

care

Fair enough. I'm not arguing actual opinion on the matter. I'm arguing the law that doens't require a woman to consult the man when seeking an abortion. The act of reproduction requires both genders, equally. Therefore, both male and female are resonsible for ensuring the proper preventatives. The problem I have with your explanation of "how it goes", is that it's up to the woman to decide wether or not there is even a child for the man to "have a choice" about in the first place. The woman can decide everything. She's not just deciding about her body and a baby, but she has the physical and financial future of the man in her hands. In a sense, she's not just controlling the birth, she's controlling hers and someone elses life.

I don't agree with abortion to begin with, but in the same sense this is like the gun issue. While I don't agree with banning guns, I do agree with sensible, fair restrictions.

With abortions, I wish they were illegal, but if they're going to be legal, they need to be fair.

 

[BrianH]

Okay, as long as you can agree that dealing with them as a third party isn't quite the same thing.

Regardless, that argument has no merit with me.

It usually doesn't with women...

But can you honestly sit there and say that a woman's SOLE say in whether or not she delivers THEIR child is fair and balanced?

 

[AllieBaba]

No. And I think the baby should have a vote, too.

 

[Ravi]

It usually doesn't with women...

But can you honestly sit there and say that a woman's SOLE say in whether or not she delivers THEIR child is fair and balanced?

There is no way to make it fair and balanced. If you were the one that was pregnant, I'd say it was your choice, too.