Abortion is murder

[ding]

...One person killing a separate, discrete, and unique individual is murder.

Agreed. What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"? It's just a cell. Sure, it has the potential to become a person, but most self-abort. Some are stillborn. Who is responsible for the self-abortions and stillbirths? God? The woman? If a woman has a stillborn baby should she be charged with murder?

"An individual human life begins at conception when a sperm cell from the father fuses with an egg cell from the mother, to form a new cell, the zygote, the first embryonic stage. The zygote grows and divides into two daughter cells, each of which grows and divides into two grand-daughter cells, and this cell growth/division process continues on, over and over again. The zygote is the start of a biological continuum that automatically grows and develops, passing gradually and sequentially through the stages we call foetus, baby, child, adult, old person and ending eventually in death. The full genetic instructions to guide the development of the continuum, in interaction with its environment, are present in the zygote. Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."
Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland

 

[ding]

...One person killing a separate, discrete, and unique individual is murder.

Agreed. What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"? It's just a cell. Sure, it has the potential to become a person, but most self-abort. Some are stillborn. Who is responsible for the self-abortions and stillbirths? God? The woman? If a woman has a stillborn baby should she be charged with murder?

“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

 

[ding]

What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"?...

DNA

 

[PoliticalChic]

...One person killing a separate, discrete, and unique individual is murder.

Agreed. What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"? It's just a cell. Sure, it has the potential to become a person, but most self-abort. Some are stillborn. Who is responsible for the self-abortions and stillbirths? God? The woman? If a woman has a stillborn baby should she be charged with murder?

“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

Our pal 'DuplicitousHotAir' knows the truth.....that's why he/she declined to respond to this query:

As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.


There is no such right...morally.

Dennis Prager writes this:

1. If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective. Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right. The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had reason on their side. Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion. If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God." I, God, tell you to be decent to other people.

 

[ding]

I can go on all day long. Science tells us that a new human being is created at conception. This cannot be refuted.

I want to thank all of you fine modern liberals for proving my point that, Modern American Liberals, worship science but are the first to argue against it.

 

[Divine Wind]

No. It is not just a cell. It is a human being in its earliest stage of human development......

"An individual human life begins at conception ....

...it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

All correct and all, of which, do not prove a zygote = a human being.

What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"?...

DNA

Misleading. The zygote is unique because of its DNA, but it's not a human being as the quote was referencing.

Our pal 'DuplicitousHotAir' knows the truth.....

Ding, do you support this type of behavior? I hope you understand the difference between a rational discussion and a vicious, foaming-at-the-mouth nutjob who believes that "s/he who screams loudest wins".

 

[PoliticalChic]

No. It is not just a cell. It is a human being in its earliest stage of human development......

"An individual human life begins at conception ....

...it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

All correct and all, of which, do not prove a zygote = a human being.

What makes a zygote a "separate, discrete, and unique individual"?...

DNA

Misleading. The zygote is unique because of its DNA, but it's not a human being as the quote was referencing.

Our pal 'DuplicitousHotAir' knows the truth.....

Ding, do you support this type of behavior? I hope you understand the difference between a rational discussion and a vicious, foaming-at-the-mouth nutjob who believes that "s/he who screams loudest wins".

"...a rational discussion...."

As you have done you best to dodge this central issue...

As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.

...when do you plan to engage is that vaunted rational discussion, you windbag?

 

[ding]

All correct and all, of which, do not prove a zygote = a human being.

How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

 

[ding]

Misleading. The zygote is unique because of its DNA, but it's not a human being as the quote was referencing.

Again, I have the same response. How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

 

[ding]

Ding, do you support this type of behavior? I hope you understand the difference between a rational discussion and a vicious, foaming-at-the-mouth nutjob who believes that "s/he who screams loudest wins".

I'd rather try to stay on track with one argument at a time. I'd be glad to weigh in on this after we finish discussing your scientific argument for why a NEW human being does not come into existence at conception. How's that?

 

[Divine Wind]

How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

Merriam-Webster defines is fine. Since you obviously haven't read the discussion between PC and myself, let me repost two, including the definition, to save time:

It appears you are a liar.
You claimed that I posted this:

"...that human beings are fully formed at conception. "

Can you produce such a post of mine....or will you be labelled exactly what you are....a liar, attempting to avoid these questions:

And the two salient points in this discussion are

1. Abortion is the act of one human ending the existence of another

2. As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.



The attempt to change the subject reveals that you recognize, and acknowledge the weakness of your position.
You may try to change the subject...but I won't allow you to.


I can certainly relieve you of the burden, as honest has never been a burden for me.
I can answer the two if you like.

Didn't you say "QED, at conception we are discussing a human being with unique and identifying DNA"? Why are you dodging what you said? Are you OCD? Reading challenged? In denial? Just don't understand what "human being" means? Here, let me help:

Definition of HUMAN BEING
a man, woman, or child : person

You clearly called a zygote a "human being". Why are you denying it since everyone can see you did?

....And every abortion is murder.....

......Your view: "Because I feel like it."

That's the truth, isn't it.

Disagreed and incorrect.

The truth is that human beings don't suddenly pop into existence upon conception. They grow from a single cell until they become a living, viable human being. An apple seed isn't the same as an apple tree and a zygote is not the same as a human being.

At some point, that zygote does grow until it becomes a human being. The scientific and medical view is that it occurs around the 24 week period which is why the law was formed around that point of growth.

I believe in personal liberty, but that liberty only extends freely until it conflicts with another person's liberty. The two main purposes of government is to resolve disputes between two or more citizens conflicts of liberty and protect the nation defense. A zygote is not a citizen nor is it even a human being. It is not a person, it only has the potential to become a person. Of course, it also has the potential to self-abort as 25-33%+ do:

First Trimester Miscarriage | BabyMed.com
Approximately one in 3-4 known pregnancies are lost within the first trimester to miscarriage. This number is based upon pregnancies that are verified before the miscarriage occurs. In all reality, the number of first trimester miscarriages is far greater due to the fact that many women miscarry their pregnancy before they know they are pregnant and associate the bleeding with the onset of their next menstrual period.

 

[ding]

How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

Merriam-Webster defines is fine. Since you obviously haven't read the discussion between PC and myself, let me repost two, including the definition, to save time:

It appears you are a liar.
You claimed that I posted this:

"...that human beings are fully formed at conception. "

Can you produce such a post of mine....or will you be labelled exactly what you are....a liar, attempting to avoid these questions:

And the two salient points in this discussion are

1. Abortion is the act of one human ending the existence of another

2. As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.



The attempt to change the subject reveals that you recognize, and acknowledge the weakness of your position.
You may try to change the subject...but I won't allow you to.


I can certainly relieve you of the burden, as honest has never been a burden for me.
I can answer the two if you like.

Didn't you say "QED, at conception we are discussing a human being with unique and identifying DNA"? Why are you dodging what you said? Are you OCD? Reading challenged? In denial? Just don't understand what "human being" means? Here, let me help:

Definition of HUMAN BEING
a man, woman, or child : person

You clearly called a zygote a "human being". Why are you denying it since everyone can see you did?

....And every abortion is murder.....

......Your view: "Because I feel like it."

That's the truth, isn't it.

Disagreed and incorrect.

The truth is that human beings don't suddenly pop into existence upon conception. They grow from a single cell until they become a living, viable human being. An apple seed isn't the same as an apple tree and a zygote is not the same as a human being.

At some point, that zygote does grow until it becomes a human being. The scientific and medical view is that it occurs around the 24 week period which is why the law was formed around that point of growth.

I believe in personal liberty, but that liberty only extends freely until it conflicts with another person's liberty. The two main purposes of government is to resolve disputes between two or more citizens conflicts of liberty and protect the nation defense. A zygote is not a citizen nor is it even a human being. It is not a person, it only has the potential to become a person. Of course, it also has the potential to self-abort as 25-33%+ do:

First Trimester Miscarriage | BabyMed.com
Approximately one in 3-4 known pregnancies are lost within the first trimester to miscarriage. This number is based upon pregnancies that are verified before the miscarriage occurs. In all reality, the number of first trimester miscarriages is far greater due to the fact that many women miscarry their pregnancy before they know they are pregnant and associate the bleeding with the onset of their next menstrual period.

Are you going to offer any scientific evidence at all?

 

[ding]

How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

Merriam-Webster defines is fine. Since you obviously haven't read the discussion between PC and myself, let me repost two, including the definition, to save time:

It appears you are a liar.
You claimed that I posted this:

"...that human beings are fully formed at conception. "

Can you produce such a post of mine....or will you be labelled exactly what you are....a liar, attempting to avoid these questions:

And the two salient points in this discussion are

1. Abortion is the act of one human ending the existence of another

2. As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.



The attempt to change the subject reveals that you recognize, and acknowledge the weakness of your position.
You may try to change the subject...but I won't allow you to.


I can certainly relieve you of the burden, as honest has never been a burden for me.
I can answer the two if you like.

Didn't you say "QED, at conception we are discussing a human being with unique and identifying DNA"? Why are you dodging what you said? Are you OCD? Reading challenged? In denial? Just don't understand what "human being" means? Here, let me help:

Definition of HUMAN BEING
a man, woman, or child : person

You clearly called a zygote a "human being". Why are you denying it since everyone can see you did?

....And every abortion is murder.....

......Your view: "Because I feel like it."

That's the truth, isn't it.

Disagreed and incorrect.

The truth is that human beings don't suddenly pop into existence upon conception. They grow from a single cell until they become a living, viable human being. An apple seed isn't the same as an apple tree and a zygote is not the same as a human being.

At some point, that zygote does grow until it becomes a human being. The scientific and medical view is that it occurs around the 24 week period which is why the law was formed around that point of growth.

I believe in personal liberty, but that liberty only extends freely until it conflicts with another person's liberty. The two main purposes of government is to resolve disputes between two or more citizens conflicts of liberty and protect the nation defense. A zygote is not a citizen nor is it even a human being. It is not a person, it only has the potential to become a person. Of course, it also has the potential to self-abort as 25-33%+ do:

First Trimester Miscarriage | BabyMed.com
Approximately one in 3-4 known pregnancies are lost within the first trimester to miscarriage. This number is based upon pregnancies that are verified before the miscarriage occurs. In all reality, the number of first trimester miscarriages is far greater due to the fact that many women miscarry their pregnancy before they know they are pregnant and associate the bleeding with the onset of their next menstrual period.

Are you going to offer any scientific evidence at all?

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

 

[Divine Wind]

I'd rather try to stay on track with one argument at a time. I'd be glad to weigh in on this after we finish discussing your scientific argument for why a NEW human being does not come into existence at conception. How's that?

It would really save time if you actually read the thread, but the short answer is that a zygote ≠ human being. It's only a potential human being just as a hunk of marble is a potential statue of David or an apple seed is a potential apple tree. It's a single-cell with no brain, no heart, no blood. It has a unique DNA signature but so does every cell you shed every day. It's human, but it's not a human being as defined previously.

 

[Divine Wind]

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

Correct. Now prove that a zygote is a human being.

 

[ding]

How d you define a human being? And what species is a zygote in a human woman's womb? I believe you are trying to make a legal argument instead of a scientific argument. Let's try to resolve the scientific argument first and then I will be happy to discuss the legal argument later.

Can you provide any scientific evidence that a zygote is not a human being in its earliest stage of human development?

Merriam-Webster defines is fine. Since you obviously haven't read the discussion between PC and myself, let me repost two, including the definition, to save time:

It appears you are a liar.
You claimed that I posted this:

"...that human beings are fully formed at conception. "

Can you produce such a post of mine....or will you be labelled exactly what you are....a liar, attempting to avoid these questions:

And the two salient points in this discussion are

1. Abortion is the act of one human ending the existence of another

2. As the developing human is never a part of the 'mother,' where is her right to end his or her life.



The attempt to change the subject reveals that you recognize, and acknowledge the weakness of your position.
You may try to change the subject...but I won't allow you to.


I can certainly relieve you of the burden, as honest has never been a burden for me.
I can answer the two if you like.

Didn't you say "QED, at conception we are discussing a human being with unique and identifying DNA"? Why are you dodging what you said? Are you OCD? Reading challenged? In denial? Just don't understand what "human being" means? Here, let me help:

Definition of HUMAN BEING
a man, woman, or child : person

You clearly called a zygote a "human being". Why are you denying it since everyone can see you did?

....And every abortion is murder.....

......Your view: "Because I feel like it."

That's the truth, isn't it.

Disagreed and incorrect.

The truth is that human beings don't suddenly pop into existence upon conception. They grow from a single cell until they become a living, viable human being. An apple seed isn't the same as an apple tree and a zygote is not the same as a human being.

At some point, that zygote does grow until it becomes a human being. The scientific and medical view is that it occurs around the 24 week period which is why the law was formed around that point of growth.

I believe in personal liberty, but that liberty only extends freely until it conflicts with another person's liberty. The two main purposes of government is to resolve disputes between two or more citizens conflicts of liberty and protect the nation defense. A zygote is not a citizen nor is it even a human being. It is not a person, it only has the potential to become a person. Of course, it also has the potential to self-abort as 25-33%+ do:

First Trimester Miscarriage | BabyMed.com
Approximately one in 3-4 known pregnancies are lost within the first trimester to miscarriage. This number is based upon pregnancies that are verified before the miscarriage occurs. In all reality, the number of first trimester miscarriages is far greater due to the fact that many women miscarry their pregnancy before they know they are pregnant and associate the bleeding with the onset of their next menstrual period.

“The oviduct or Fallopian tube is the anatomical region where every new life begins in mammalian species. After a long journey, the spermatozoa meet the oocyte in the specific site of the oviduct named ampulla, and fertilization takes place.” Coy et al., Roles of the oviduct in mammalian fertilization, REPRODUCTION 144(6):649 (Oct. 1, 2012)

 

[ding]

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

Correct. Now prove that a zygote is a human being.

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).” Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

 

[ding]

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

Correct. Now prove that a zygote is a human being.

National Institutes of Health, Medline Plus Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary (2013), http://www.merriamwebster.com/medlineplus/fertilization

The government’s own definition attests to the fact that life begins at fertilization. According to the National Institutes of Health, “fertilization” is the process of union of two gametes (i.e., ovum and sperm) “whereby the somatic chromosome number is restored and the development of a new individual is initiated.”

Steven Ertelt”Undisputed Scientific Fact: Human Life Begins at Conception, or Fertilization” LifeNews.com 11/18/13

 

[Divine Wind]

“The oviduct or Fallopian tube is the anatomical region where every new life begins in mammalian species. After a long journey, the spermatozoa meet the oocyte in the specific site of the oviduct named ampulla, and fertilization takes place.” Coy et al., Roles of the oviduct in mammalian fertilization, REPRODUCTION 144(6):649 (Oct. 1, 2012)

Correct, but now you are just refusing to discuss. You've failed to prove a zygote is a human being despite repeated requests.

Thanks for your time. Have a nice day.

 

[ding]

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

Correct. Now prove that a zygote is a human being.

"An individual human life begins at conception when a sperm cell from the father fuses with an egg cell from the mother, to form a new cell, the zygote, the first embryonic stage. The zygote grows and divides into two daughter cells, each of which grows and divides into two grand-daughter cells, and this cell growth/division process continues on, over and over again. The zygote is the start of a biological continuum that automatically grows and develops, passing gradually and sequentially through the stages we call foetus, baby, child, adult, old person and ending eventually in death. The full genetic instructions to guide the development of the continuum, in interaction with its environment, are present in the zygote. Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."
Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland.