Abortion and morality

Those who view abortion as an inhumane act of cruelty must bear in mind that we cannot expect to remove all the dark aspects from life.

The Bible says otherwise. The life of Jesus proves otherwise.
The Bible says thou shalt not kill. < A dark aspect that we choose to embrace or choose to reject.
Darkness is not a condition we're are forced to endure. Darkness flees the Light.

In fact, the life of Jesus shows how he embraced the dark aspects of existence. He lived a life in austerity and allowed himself to be flogged and fixed on a cross. His message is: "Lift up your cross and follow me" (Mark 8, Luke 9). He wasn't an advocate of the Cloud cuckoo land. On the contrary, He said that the Kingdom is within. Don't believe the people who say that it can be established in gross materiality, which is the modern global welfare ideal. Don't expect so much from worldly existence.

Mats Winther

You're utterly babbling now. This is the worst example of random cherrypicking to support an insupportable point that I've seen on this board . . . at least THIS week.

Once again, accepting that evil can never be vanquished does NOT absolve us of the moral obligation to fight it. Nor does it constitute "embracing" it.
 
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By the same token, Brain Trust, God "kills" 100% of all human beings who ever live. So He's also the greatest mass murderer in history, from your dipshit viewpoint.

Does that make it okay for me to go out and start mowing people down with my car? Because I've got a list, if the new standard is "God does it, so I can do it".
 
You're a doctor?

So tell me...do doctors regularly operate on people who have high fevers and raging infections?

Nope.

She didn't die from lack of abortion. The article does not say that. The article says she died from blood poisoning. It doesn't even say from what. The law states that abortions can be performed in Ireland to save the life of the mother.

So obviously, they didn't think the baby was what was killing her.

My guess is she came in very ill, and crashed. You DON'T perform abortions on women who are crashing. Do you know what septicemia is? You can't even get a dentist to pull a tooth if you have an infection...even when the tooth you want pulled is CAUSING the infection. And when people have septicemia, doctors do NOT perform surgery or any other procedures on them UNTIL they have been treated for the infection.

The myth of the "killer fetus" is getting old.

God forbid these people should wait for the investigations to be concluded so we can KNOW precisely how she came to die. It's so much easier for these Miss Cleo wannabes to just whip out the ol' crystal ball and divine how it happened.
 
It's possible the doctors screwed up, that happens.

But the ridiculous posturing of the baby killers here makes me want to puke on their heads. What fucking vultures they are, they deserve a vulture salute.

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Here's a novel idea.........................

How about we make birth control available to those who want it?

It's guaranteed to reduce abortions.
 
^^^Lie. It doesn't decrease abortion frequency. In fact, it appears to increase abortion frequency.
 
BTW, contraception is already available to those who want it (in this country).

Meanwhile:

"Contraception actually increases the abortion rate. This has been known for decades. In 1970, Malcolm Potts, a former medical director of the International Planned Parenthood Federation, said, &#8220;Abortion and contraception are inextricably intertwined in their use. As the idea of family planning spreads through a community there appears to be a rise in the incidence of induced abortion at the point where the community begins to initiate the use of contraceptives.&#8221;

Read more: Contraception can't halt abortion's rise - Washington Times Contraception can&#39;t halt abortion&#39;s rise - Washington Times
 
^^^Lie. It doesn't decrease abortion frequency. In fact, it appears to increase abortion frequency.

Got any links to prove your bullshit assertions? Because I've got one from a newspaper right here.........................

WASHINGTON — Free birth control led to dramatically lower rates of abortions and teen births, a large study concluded Thursday, offering strong evidence for how a bitterly contested Obama administration policy could benefit women’s health.

The project tracked more than 9,000 women in St. Louis, many of them poor or uninsured. They were given their choice of a range of contraceptive methods at no cost — from birth control pills to goof-proof options like the IUD or a matchstick-sized implant.

When price wasn’t an issue, women flocked to the most effective contraceptives — the implanted options, which typically cost hundreds of dollars upfront to insert. These women experienced far fewer unintended pregnancies as a result, reported Dr. Jeffrey Peipert of Washington University in St. Louis in a study published Thursday.

The effect on teen pregnancy was striking: There were 6.3 births per 1,000 teenagers in the study. Compare that to a national rate of 34 births per 1,000 teens in 2010.

There also were substantially lower rates of abortion, when compared with women in the metro area and nationally: 4.4 to 7.5 abortions per 1,000 women in the study, compared with 13.4 to 17 abortions per 1,000 women overall in the St. Louis region, Peipert calculated. That’s lower than the national rate, too, which is almost 20 abortions per 1,000 women.

In fact, if the program were expanded, one abortion could be prevented for every 79 to 137 women given a free contraceptive choice, Peipert’s team reported in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology.

Study shows free birth control reduces abortions, teen births dramatically &ndash; The Post and Courier

And here's something from escience news.......................

Providing birth control to women at no cost substantially reduced unplanned pregnancies and cut abortion rates by 62 percent to 78 percent over the national rate, a new study shows. The research, by investigators at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, appears online Oct. 4 in Obstetrics & Gynecology.

Among a range of birth control methods offered in the study, most women chose long-acting methods like intrauterine devices (IUDs) or implants, which have lower failure rates than commonly used birth control pills. In the United States, IUDs and implants have high up-front costs that sometimes aren't covered by health insurance, making these methods unaffordable for many women.

"The impact of providing no-cost birth control was far greater than we expected in terms of unintended pregnancies," says lead author Jeff Peipert, MD, PhD, the Robert J. Terry Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology. "We think improving access to birth control, particularly IUDs and implants, coupled with education on the most effective methods has the potential to significantly decrease the number of unintended pregnancies and abortions in this country."

Unintended pregnancies are a major problem in the United States. Each year, about 50 percent of all U.S. pregnancies are unplanned, far higher than in other developed countries. About half of these pregnancies result from women not using contraception and half from incorrect or irregular use.

The Contraceptive Choice Project enrolled 9,256 women and adolescents in the St. Louis area between 2007 and 2011. Participants were 14-45 years of age, at risk for unintended pregnancy, and willing to start a new contraceptive method.

Participants had their choice of birth control methods, ranging from long-acting forms like IUDs and implants to shorter-acting methods such as birth control pills, patches and rings.

The women were counseled about the different methods, including their effectiveness, risks and benefits. The extremely low failure rate (less than 1 percent) of IUDs and implants over that of shorter-acting forms (8 percent to 10 percent) was emphasized. In all, about 75 percent of women in the study chose IUDs or implants.

From 2008 to 2010, annual abortion rates among study participants ranged from 4.4 to 7.5 per 1,000 women. This is a substantial drop (62 percent to 78 percent) over the national rate of 19.6 abortions per 1,000 women in 2008, the latest year for which figures are available.

The lower abortion rates among CHOICE participants also is considerably less than the rates in St. Louis city and county, which ranged from 13.4 to 17 per 1,000 women, for the same years.

Among girls ages 15-19 who had access to free birth control provided in the study, the annual birth rate was 6.3 per 1,000, far below the U.S. rate of 34.3 per 1,000 for girls the same age.

Abortion rates plummet with free birth control | e! Science News

Me personally? If I had a daughter, and she wanted to be on birth control, I'd allow it and give permission. Why? Better safe than sorry.
 
BTW, contraception is already available to those who want it (in this country).

Meanwhile:

"Contraception actually increases the abortion rate. This has been known for decades. In 1970, Malcolm Potts, a former medical director of the International Planned Parenthood Federation, said, “Abortion and contraception are inextricably intertwined in their use. As the idea of family planning spreads through a community there appears to be a rise in the incidence of induced abortion at the point where the community begins to initiate the use of contraceptives.”

Read more: Contraception can't halt abortion's rise - Washington Times Contraception can't halt abortion's rise - Washington Times

I trust the study done in 2010 more than I'd trust a study done in 1970. Times, attitudes, and birth control itself has changed dramatically since then.
 
PS..you don't have to give permission for your daughter to get birth control. The big lie is that it isn't already available. It is. I got free birth control no matter where I lived 25 years ago....and it hasn't become more difficult to obtain, I promise you.
 
The WSU study is a tiny, flawed study.

"Finally, this country's most often-quoted 'sexologist,' Alfred Kinsey, said nearly four decades ago that
At the risk of being repetitious, I would remind the group that we have found the highest frequency of induced abortion in the group which, in general, most frequently uses contraceptives."

CHAPTER 97
 
"
Since the 1970s, Planned Parenthood has targeted blacks and Hispanics by placing its facilities in urban areas, making contraception readily available to them. Sixty percent of black pregnancies and 40 percent of Hispanic pregnancies in New York City end in abortion, clearly showing that abortion is being used as the ultimate contraceptive. Even the Supreme Court in the 1992 Casey decision recognized that surgical abortion is a necessary backup for contraception because Americans &#8220;for two decades organized intimate relationships &#8230; on the availability of abortion in the event that contraception should fail.&#8221;
Policymakers should take note that contraception does not reduce abortions and will not eliminate the more than $360 million Planned Parenthood receives annually from the federal government alone.


Read more: Contraception can't halt abortion's rise - Washington Times Contraception can&#39;t halt abortion&#39;s rise - Washington Times
 
The WSU study is a tiny, flawed study.

"Finally, this country's most often-quoted 'sexologist,' Alfred Kinsey, said nearly four decades ago that
At the risk of being repetitious, I would remind the group that we have found the highest frequency of induced abortion in the group which, in general, most frequently uses contraceptives."

CHAPTER 97

40 years ago (when Kinsey said this), birth control was way less effective than it is today.

Still stuck on stupid in the past, eh Kaiser Twit?
 
Abortion rates continued to escalate for decades after Kinsey said that. They are many, many times what they were back then.

So what he said was exactly and precisely correct.
 
I find it amusing that you call me kaiser twit, when you are the one pushing genocide.

Kinda ironic.
 
Increased contraceptive access and the morning-after pill also has led to an explosion of stds in kids (besides not reducing the number of later-term abortions):

"Offering the morning after pill free over the counter has not reduced the number of teenage pregnancies and may be associated with a rise in sexually-transmitted diseases (STIs), according to a report by experts at The University of Nottingham."

Morning after pill linked to increase in sexually transmitted diseases, UK study shows
 
"In terms of STIs, rate for teenagers and older women both increased consistently over the period. However, rates among teenagers increased at a faster rate and there is some evidence that the gap with rates among older women widened as the EBC schemes progressed.
"It found that the EBC schemes had no effect in reducing teenage conception rates and even some evidence that pointed to a small increase in the number of pregnancies.
"The presence of an EBC scheme in a local health authority was linked to a five per cent increase in STIs in the under-18 age group and a 12 per cent hike in under-16s."

Ouch.

Morning after pill linked to increase in sexually transmitted diseases, UK study shows
 

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