When is it okay to violate a person's freedom?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by LibertyLemming, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. LibertyLemming
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    LibertyLemming VIP Member

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    If you take and accept the premise that a natural man is 100% free to do anything he pleases and go from there... Where do you see fit to take his freedom? Only to stop him from taking away the liberty of other people? Is it okay to tax his labor to pay for other people who are less fortunate? How much freedom can be removed from a person before you have crossed the lines of justice?
     
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  2. rosends
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    rosends VIP Member

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    I think that that is a great question. If we start by assuming that man is 100 percent free to do what he pleases then we (I think) would see that he starts to hand over his freedoms voluntarily as soon as he wants to coexist with other people. He trades off freedom to kill for the security of not being killed. And it goes from there. Everything from speed limits to the FDA to, yes, taxes, serves the purpose of ensuring that the government can continue to operate and enforce laws, and that my freedom to live in happiness is not jeopardized by someone else's behavior.

    Governance seems to be the dynamic process of finding the line between a person's responsibility to building the society full of mutual obligation and the person's right not to be obligated towards others while still being of the society. The different political approaches argue over (and then down) the slippery slope which begins with "what is the place of the person who cannot help himself and what is my relationship to him?"
     
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  3. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    In forms of voluntary, peaceful exchange, a person willfully relinquishes their desire to inflict any coercive action against a fellow exchange partner. More often than not, this is how it goes. When those situations arise where someone does inflict coercion/violence against someone else through property theft or attempts to remove their rights, we have written law to protect and to punish.

    It's not OK to directly, or unapportion tax someones labor. it's both morally repugnant and unconstitutional in the US. Let's look at it this way; If taking 100% of someone's labor, through coercion/taxation is slavery, at what percentage is it not?

    The "state", under the constitution has the authority to lay taxes on goods, or a sales tax. Usure taxes, etc...

    The government of the US was designed to protect the rights of the citizens, uphold the consitution qand keep a governing body extremely limited. A short trip down history lane easily explains why that is. From fuedal times of Europe, to the British empire that "founded" the american first colonies (which was largely also feudal in design), governments have been abusing the civil liberties and economic freedom of the people. The idea here was to change that.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  4. Lonestar_logic
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    Lonestar_logic Republic of Texas

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    Your equating freedom with money?
     
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  5. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    So you're against economic freedom?
     
  6. Lonestar_logic
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    Lonestar_logic Republic of Texas

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    I didn't say that. But I don't view freedom in terms of money and there is more to "freedom" than economic freedom. BTW the Constituition gives Congress the right to lay taxes. So I'm guessing you have a problem with the Constitution or at least the taxation part.
     
  7. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    I have a problem with the ratification of the 16th amendment in 1913, yes. Economic freedom tends to be the foundation in other civil liberties, or freedoms.
     
  8. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    So I'll ask again, if 100% taxation on ones labor is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery?
     
  9. del
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    del BANNED

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    ask a stupid question...
     
  10. Moonglow
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    Moonglow Diamond Member

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    I would prefer 0% taxes, but I like libraries.

    Why do they never bitch about the 10% God wants?
     

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