A Zionist Among Palestinians

[holston]

Maybe it's worth asking "what's changed" in the last generation or two that's lead you to your current political position on Israel and the Middle East. I'm often (rightly) condemned on this board for non-sequitur, but it seems possible that the US ambitions and attitudes you reference are revealed perfectly by the Snowden affair: We can't stay out of other people's business, especially Israel's colonization of Palestine, because financial capital dictates politics from DC to the EU to Tel Aviv:

The Servility of the Satellites » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

"The Snowden affair has revealed even more about Europe than about the United States.

"Certainly, the facts of NSA spying are significant. But many people suspected that something of the sort was going on.

"The refusal of France, Italy and Portugal to allow the private aircraft of the President of Bolivia to cross their airspace on the mere suspicion that Edward Snowden might be aboard is rather more astonishing.

"Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the 'Western democracies' into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name."

The dominant Empire of its day gave its blessing to a "Jewish homeland in Palestine" in 1917, about six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. At the end of WWII, the US picked up where England left off. Three generations later, Wall Street and the City of London, acting through bureaucracies like the EU, decide who will live and die from Damascus to Gaza in spite of the political will of the majority of the world.

It would take a great deal of time and space to give all the reasons my position has changed.

Most Americans who claim to be Christian remain grossly ignorant of what the New Testament actually says and much more so the Old.

Generally speaking they simply naively assume that their ministers like the media and those in authority are dedicated to the truth and couldn't possibly feed them disinformation intentionally or otherwise.
They do not have the time or resources to scrutinize them thoroughly and don't want to be bothered. As long as the bread and circuses hold up they will remain as complacent as they can be.
I fear that this situation may change if the economic situation grows dire enough, hence the need to build FEMA camps, Federalize the police, and beef up the DHS.

The US government has been hijacked by Zionists and Marxists. Those who are not have prostituted themselves.
A silent economic and social war has been conducted against the WASP society US for decades. That's my assessment. And I see the Zionist Cabal being the ring leaders of it.

In addition Judaism is as false as Islam is. False doctrines can't possibly have good effects on any society.

That's as condensed as I know how to make it. They call me "anti-semitic" among other things for saying it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWyEkZdJk8]Bill Maher says Jews run the U.S.A. - YouTube[/ame]

By the way, I used to be a big fan of Simon and Garfunkel and Bob Dylan.
I can't stand the sight of Bob Zimmerman anymore. I don't know about Simon and Garfunkel. I'd prefer to think they aren't Jewish Supremacists but I don't know.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5058978575943315&pid=15.1&w=191&h=126&p=0
Phoney Baloney

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe it's worth asking "what's changed" in the last generation or two that's lead you to your current political position on Israel and the Middle East. I'm often (rightly) condemned on this board for non-sequitur, but it seems possible that the US ambitions and attitudes you reference are revealed perfectly by the Snowden affair: We can't stay out of other people's business, especially Israel's colonization of Palestine, because financial capital dictates politics from DC to the EU to Tel Aviv:

The Servility of the Satellites » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

"The Snowden affair has revealed even more about Europe than about the United States.

"Certainly, the facts of NSA spying are significant. But many people suspected that something of the sort was going on.

"The refusal of France, Italy and Portugal to allow the private aircraft of the President of Bolivia to cross their airspace on the mere suspicion that Edward Snowden might be aboard is rather more astonishing.

"Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the 'Western democracies' into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name."

The dominant Empire of its day gave its blessing to a "Jewish homeland in Palestine" in 1917, about six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. At the end of WWII, the US picked up where England left off. Three generations later, Wall Street and the City of London, acting through bureaucracies like the EU, decide who will live and die from Damascus to Gaza in spite of the political will of the majority of the world.

It would take a great deal of time and space to give all the reasons my position has changed.

Most Americans who claim to be Christian remain grossly ignorant of what the New Testament actually says and much more so the Old.

Generally speaking they simply naively assume that their ministers like the media and those in authority are dedicated to the truth and couldn't possibly feed them disinformation intentionally or otherwise.
They do not have the time or resources to scrutinize them thoroughly and don't want to be bothered. As long as the bread and circuses hold up they will remain as complacent as they can be.
I fear that this situation may change if the economic situation grows dire enough, hence the need to build FEMA camps, Federalize the police, and beef up the DHS.

The US government has been hijacked by Zionists and Marxists. Those who are not have prostituted themselves.
A silent economic and social war has been conducted against the WASP society US for decades. That's my assessment. And I see the Zionist Cabal being the ring leaders of it.

In addition Judaism is as false as Islam is. False doctrines can't possibly have good effects on any society.

That's as condensed as I know how to make it. They call me "anti-semitic" among other things for saying it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWyEkZdJk8]Bill Maher says Jews run the U.S.A. - YouTube[/ame]

By the way, I used to be a big fan of Simon and Garfunkel and Bob Dylan.
I can't stand the sight of Bob Zimmerman anymore. I don't know about Simon and Garfunkel. I'd prefer to think they aren't Jewish Supremacists but I don't know.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5058978575943315&pid=15.1&w=191&h=126&p=0
Phoney Baloney

We agree the Zionists have an undue influence over US politics; however, I'm not clear about the Marxist threat; it seems to me we have much more to fear in the US from corporations and their contribution to our steadily widening levels of inequality. Do you have any thoughts on a guaranteed annual wage for all Americans?

 

[Billo_Really]

Which left deserve the support?

These people...





and these people...

 

[holston]

We agree the Zionists have an undue influence over US politics; however, I'm not clear about the Marxist threat; it seems to me we have much more to fear in the US from corporations and their contribution to our steadily widening levels of inequality. Do you have any thoughts on a guaranteed annual wage for all Americans?

+

Ill conceived and imbalanced trade relations like NAFTA have a lot to do with it. Who benefits most from shipping manufacturing overseas?
How have the Wall Street speculators, Globalist bankers, and Federal Reserve policies done except orchestrate massive rip offs and make matters worse?
Our manufacturing base was doing fine at one time. It turned the US into the world's industrial giant and made a wealthy nation of the US?

So what happened?

Who has been at work to bring it down?

What actions brought the US to a debt of 17 TRILLION?



Socialism hasn't worked so well elsewhere in the world.
What makes you think it will work here?

While the rest of the world is trying to escape the consequences of failed Socialism we are barreling head long into it.
And we seem to be ignoring the historical results of multiculturalism in other nations as well. I believe the term is "Balkenization".

(Not really. They are not ignoring the lessons that have been learned from observing their effects in other times and places. They are fully aware of them and making full use of them!)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLmqx5VCpAc]The History of Cultural Marxism - YouTube[/ame]

I don't think that the Zionist Marxists think it will succeed either, in anything except reducing the US (the hated WASP society) to a third world status ( In which they rule.)

 

[holston]

and these people...

Substitute Anglo Saxon faces and the words White Pride and what do you have?

You guessed it. "WHITE SUPREMACISM."

One might think analogously that the above could also be called "JEWISH SUPREMACISM" but one would be wrong, since that observation is politically incorrect and tantamount to "anti-semitism".

 

[georgephillip]

"Hillel Bardin is an Israeli Zionist who has been working since 1985 to improve Jewish-Arab relations. While serving in the army he became friends with some Palestinian arrestees, which led him to start dialogue groups in many cities, villages and refugee camps in the West Bank.

"He was instrumental in founding a party in the Jerusalem Municipal Council supporting Palestinian rights, and went to Tunis to talk with Yassir Arafat in the hopes that Palestinians would run for the municipal council and vote in the upcoming elections.

"As a reserve soldier in Ramallah during the first intifada, he tried to encourage local residents to forego stone-throwing in exchange for being allowed to demonstrate non-violently, for which he was sent to prison. He worked for many years trying to achieve full implementation of the right to free public education for Jerusalem’s Palestinian children."

 

[Billo_Really]

Substitute Anglo Saxon faces and the words White Pride and what do you have?

You guessed it. "WHITE SUPREMACISM."

One might think analogously that the above could also be called "JEWISH SUPREMACISM" but one would be wrong, since that observation is politically incorrect and tantamount to "anti-semitism".

It also has nothing to do with that organization.

 

[georgephillip]

From the Los Angeles Times of September 1989:

"JERUSALEM — We sat together in my living room--nine Israelis who had served in the army in the intifada and five Palestinians from Beit Sahour, a town near Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank.

"We talked about the intifada and peace and distrust.

"Varied opinions were expressed by the Israelis, who included officers who had commanded large areas in the West Bank, a medic who had served in Ansar 3 prison and soldiers who, like me, had patrolled the streets.

"The Palestinians, who had engaged in dialogues with Israelis for more than a year, were initially worried about meeting a group of army reservists. 'Can you guarantee that they will not have us arrested?' one asked when I suggested that reservists more than anyone need to meet Palestinians..."

"Two days later I got a call at 5:30 a.m. Ghassan, the physicist, and Salaam, the architect, had been arrested, with 10 other prominent people in Beit Sahour.

"These men, who had devoted themselves to repeated meetings with Israelis to further peace and to attain freedom for their people, had fallen victim to those among us who reject all compromise.

"For 18 days they suffered in jail, never being asked a single question, never charged with any offense, before they were released.

"Ghassan now has a green identity card, restricting him to the Bethlehem-Hebron area, preventing him from getting to his university office (classes have been banned for 1 1/2 years) or meeting with friends in the rest of the occupied territories or in Israel. No more dialogues for him in Jerusalem homes."

Today's "Peace Process in Palestine" reflects a balance of power between Jew and Arab that is even more skewed than the one in 1989; it is still the balance between a wolf and a lamb in almost every respect--economic, military, and political.

No Peace for the Peacemakers - Los Angeles Times

 

[Hossfly]

Palestinians live in peace in Israel. Israelis do not enjoy freedom under Palestinian rule. Jews are sometimes murdered during religious celebrations and weddings by retarded Palestinian kids who have bomb vests strapped on them by cowardly jihadists. An illustration of the media double standard was the worldwide outrage that a single liberal American Palestine activist was run over when she walked in front of a Israeli bulldozer cleaning up rubble. Not much outrage about the carnage inflicted by suicide bombers.

As I go through these posts under this thread, I feel like Louie Farrakhan has been invited as the special guest at a KKK/NeoNazi get-together where his prepared speech is loudly cheered. When posters are playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" game, a lot of strange bedfellows get together.

 

[georgephillip]

Palestinians live in peace in Israel. Israelis do not enjoy freedom under Palestinian rule.

Got a link to back that up?

Jews are sometimes murdered during religious celebrations and weddings by retarded Palestinian kids who have bomb vests strapped on them by cowardly jihadists.

Where's your link to that?

An illustration of the media double standard was the worldwide outrage that a single liberal American Palestine activist was run over when she walked in front of a Israeli bulldozer cleaning up rubble.

Rachel Corrie was deliberately ran over with a bulldozer in the process of razing a Palestinian doctors' home.

Not much outrage about the carnage inflicted by suicide bombers.

There is outrage when the incidents occur.

When innocent Jews are blown up in pizza parlors by misguided zealots the US media slavishly swallows every Zionist talking point AIPAC-controlled politicians and pundits offer. When Jews murder a solitary US civilian trying to prevent the illegal destruction of a Palestinian family's home, the same corporate hacks blame the victim. When Israel murders 34 US service men in international waters, the corporate hacks are too timid to say anything. That should outrage everyone.

 

[georgephillip]

Hillel Bardin wasn't the first Jew to discover a rich vein of non-violent resistance among Palestinian freedom fighters:

"We tend to think of nonviolent resistance as an active rather than passive concept. In reality, even though the majority of the native inhabitants were depopulated during the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians practiced nonviolent resistance by refusing to leave their homes when threatened.

"Today, through its occupation, Israel continues to make life unbearable for Palestinians, but millions resist the pressure by not leaving. This is particularly notable in occupied Jerusalem, where Palestinians are being pushed out of the city.

"For those who have never lived in a system of violence like the Israeli occupation, it is hard to understand how simply not going anywhere constitutes resistance, but when the objective of your oppressor is to get you to leave your land, staying put is part of the daily struggle.

"In this sense, every Palestinian living under the Israeli occupation is a nonviolent resister."

Palestine's Hidden History of Nonviolence - By Yousef Munayyer | Foreign Policy

 

[georgephillip]

"My hometown, Al-Lyd, (which is today called Lod), was besieged by Haganah troops in mid-July 1948. As part of Operation Dani, Al-Lyd and the neighboring town of Ramla were depopulated of tens of thousands of Palestinians.

"At the time, the city was filled with at least 50,000 people, more than twice its usual population, because it had swelled with refugees from nearby villages. After the siege, my grandparents were among the 1,000 original inhabitants who remained.

"They and many others refused to flee during the fighting and hid in the city's churches and mosques.

"Unlike their neighbors, who were hiding in the Dahmash mosque where scores of refugees were massacred by Haganah troops, they managed to survive and walk out of their refuge into the destroyed ghost town they called home."

Palestine's Hidden History of Nonviolence - By Yousef Munayyer | Foreign Policy

 

[georgephillip]

Hillel Bardin wasn't the first Jew to discover a rich vein of non-violent resistance among Palestinian freedom fighters:

"We tend to think of nonviolent resistance as an active rather than passive concept. In reality, even though the majority of the native inhabitants were depopulated during the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians practiced nonviolent resistance by refusing to leave their homes when threatened.

"Today, through its occupation, Israel continues to make life unbearable for Palestinians, but millions resist the pressure by not leaving. This is particularly notable in occupied Jerusalem, where Palestinians are being pushed out of the city.

"For those who have never lived in a system of violence like the Israeli occupation, it is hard to understand how simply not going anywhere constitutes resistance, but when the objective of your oppressor is to get you to leave your land, staying put is part of the daily struggle.

"In this sense, every Palestinian living under the Israeli occupation is a nonviolent resister."

Palestine's Hidden History of Nonviolence - By Yousef Munayyer | Foreign Policy

You can post on and on from the sites that you find, Georgie Boy, and who even knows if your characters are telling the truth. However, the truth about you is that you don't care about these Arabs or any other Arabs plus those of other religions who are harassed and murdered in the Muslim world because of their religious beliefs. If you really cared about people, you would certainly be posting on the Africa forum about the Christian people of Nigeria who are having their churches bombed and their throats slit. After all, your roots are from one of these countries so one would think you would feel for the people who are suffering atrocities there. Since you are not, it is quite obvious that your fight is really against the Jews whom you blame for holding you back in America when it was your own lack of pushing yourself that did it.
Slaughter: At Least 45 Killed In Northern Nigeria After Islamist Bombings Target Churches, Christian-Owned Businesses | MidnightWatcher's Blogspot

"Take up the White Man’s burden—

Send forth the best ye breed—

Go send your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child

Take up the White Man’s burden"

"The White Man's Burden": Kipling's Hymn to U.S. Imperialism

 

[Billo_Really]

Palestinians live in peace in Israel. Israelis do not enjoy freedom under Palestinian rule.

Got a link to back that up?

Where's your link to that?


Rachel Corrie was deliberately ran over with a bulldozer in the process of razing a Palestinian doctors' home.

Not much outrage about the carnage inflicted by suicide bombers.

There is outrage when the incidents occur.

When innocent Jews are blown up in pizza parlors by misguided zealots the US media slavishly swallows every Zionist talking point AIPAC-controlled politicians and pundits offer. When Jews murder a solitary US civilian trying to prevent the illegal destruction of a Palestinian family's home, the same corporate hacks blame the victim. When Israel murders 34 US service men in international waters, the corporate hacks are too timid to say anything. That should outrage everyone.

I agree.

 

[georgephillip]

B. Netanyahu is a terrorist.

 

[irosie91]

I am fascinated by allegations on THIS THREAD-----which declare that any
ZIONIST JEW who suggests "NOT ALL PALESTINIANS" seek to drive
jews into the sea (or annhilate Israel) is very much an ODDBALL
I have met lots and lots of avid zionist jews and never one who claimed
that "ALL PALESTINIANS" are 'anti-peace' with jews. In fact,,,
quite the opposite. Even INTENSE seems to buy into that idea
I would appreciate citations which suggest that ALL ZIONISTS (or
even the overwhelming majority) believe that "ALL PALESTINIANS"
seek to kill jews


My question to those of you who make the claim that "ALL (or almost all)
ZIONISTS believe that all palestinians are out to kill jews-----have any
of you ever had an actual conversation with a person you would call
a zionist or an Israeli? To Intense, specifically, ----you have characterized
jews as racist equally with arab muslims-----can you cite the jewish organization
of religious leaders which has issued decrees legalizing the killing of any
and all muslims ---world wide-----regardless of age and gender? Al Azhar University----
includes the body of koranic scholars accepted as AUTHORITATIVE in islamic
law by the MAJORITY of the world's muslims-----That august body has issued
decrees rendering LEGAL----the killing of any jew in the world-----which actually
explains why the man who slit the throat of Daniel Pearl was never
executed

 

[georgephillip]

B. Netanyahu is a terrorist.

Really, Georgie Boy??? It's strange that you are not on other forums like Africa, Asia and Middle East discussing the actual terrorists running the countries who allow so many innocent people being killed for their religious beliefs. Let me reiterate -- When the Jews are not involved, Georgie Boy is not interested in what is happening. He just has a thing for those he calls "the Koshers" because somehow he had to find a scapegoat for his own lack of initiative.

"Report: Netanyahu to Free 82 Terrorists
Channel 10: Netanyahu intends to free terrorist murderers as 'gesture' for 'peace' negotiations."

Report: Netanyahu to Free 82 Terrorists - Middle East - News - Israel National News

 

[Coyote]

Thread is reopened - 16 violative posts have been removed.

As a reminder, this is the CDZ:


No Name Calling Or Putting Down Posters
No Trolling and/or Troll Threads
No Hijacking
No Personal Attacks
No Neg Repping

 

[georgephillip]

"If ever there were a moment for Palestinians to overwhelmingly embrace nonviolence, that moment is now. The new media environment has created space for peaceful Palestinian voices that would never have been heard in the past.

"Many nonviolent protests continue to take place regularly: from the aid flotillas and convoys, along with repeated demonstrations against buffer zones in Gaza, to protests against the separation wall in Bilin, Nilin, Nabi Saleh, and al-Walaja; to demonstrations against home eviction and demolition in Jerusalem neighborhoods like Sheikh Jarrah and Silwan; to regular marches in refugee camps inside and outside of Palestine.

"But Western governments need to end their silence.

"By condemning Palestinian violent resistance while failing to condemn Israel's repression of nonviolent resistance, Israel's allies -- above all the United States -- are sending the dangerous message to young Palestinians that no resistance to Israeli occupation is ever acceptable.

"The fact that the nonviolent protest of the Arab Spring has come to Palestine is not a threat. It's a historic opportunity for the West to finally get it right."

Palestine's Hidden History of Nonviolence - By Yousef Munayyer | Foreign Policy

 

[irosie91]

"If ever there were a moment for Palestinians to overwhelmingly embrace nonviolence, that moment is now. The new media environment has created space for peaceful Palestinian voices that would never have been heard in the past.

"Many nonviolent protests continue to take place regularly: from the aid flotillas and convoys, along with repeated demonstrations against buffer zones in Gaza, to protests against the separation wall in Bilin, Nilin, Nabi Saleh, and al-Walaja; to demonstrations against home eviction and demolition in Jerusalem neighborhoods like Sheikh Jarrah and Silwan; to regular marches in refugee camps inside and outside of Palestine.

"But Western governments need to end their silence.

"By condemning Palestinian violent resistance while failing to condemn Israel's repression of nonviolent resistance, Israel's allies -- above all the United States -- are sending the dangerous message to young Palestinians that no resistance to Israeli occupation is ever acceptable.

"The fact that the nonviolent protest of the Arab Spring has come to Palestine is not a threat. It's a historic opportunity for the West to finally get it right."

Palestine's Hidden History of Nonviolence - By Yousef Munayyer | Foreign Policy

I wonder if anyone can cite any of those "non-violent" demonstrations.

A nice topic would be DEFINE A NON VIOLENT DEMONSTRATION

PS in my youth I was in lots of NON VIOLENT DEMONSTRATIONS----
no one died-----no one was arrested-----all throwing was strictly
prohibited-----including throwing a paper cup on the ground----
blocking by ways and roads was strictly prohibited

In my life I have seen lots of what some people called
"non violent" protests and lots of indignation over arrests
for the "non violent" blocking of by ways ensuring
impediments to ambulances and fire engines.

anyone?