A Zionist Among Palestinians

[georgephillip]

During the first intifada in Palestine one Zionist in the IDF discovered many of the Arabs he was arresting had no interest in driving the Jews into the sea:

"Hillel Bardin, a confirmed Zionist, was a reservist in the Israeli army during the first intifada when he met Palestinians arrested by his unit.

"He learned that they supported peace with Israel and the then-taboo proposal for a two-state solution. Bardin began to organize dialogues between Arabs and Israelis in West Bank villages, towns, and refugee camps.

Can you guess how Bardin's superiors responded to dialogues between Jew and Arab?

"In 1988, he was jailed for meeting with Palestinians while on active duty in Ramallah.

"Over the next two decades, he participated in a variety of peace organizations and actions, from arranging for Israelis to visit Palestinian communities and homes, to the joint jogging group 'Runners for Peace,' to marches, political organizing, and demonstrations supporting peace, security, and freedom.

http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/product_info.php?products_id=155688

Bardin found no shortage of partners for peace.
That makes me wonder how hard Bibi is looking.

 

[georgephillip]

Some background on Hillel Bardin:

"When I returned to the base in Jericho in the afternoon (less than an hour’s drive from my home in Jerusalem), I saw a row of Palestinian men sitting on the ground, waiting to be interrogated by the Shabak (the general security services).

"One of them was thin and short and looked, even from the distance, like a girl. This was the frail Wajiha. My commander, Shammai, told me that my job would be to guard her.

"Perhaps he picked me for this task because I was the oldest soldier in the unit. I was fifty-two, and even though compulsory reserve duty ended at age forty-five, I would volunteer each year to continue serving with my unit, for about a month a year.

"Perhaps he picked me because he knew that I was not filled with hatred for Arabs."

A Zionist among Palestinians, by Hillel Bardin | The Times of Israel

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

It is sad how Zionist leaders so resist peace and go after their own, the ones who really want peace and actively seek peaceful co existence . I greatly admire these Israelis like Hillel Bardin. There are Palestinians just as committed to peace and who renounce violence who I also greatly admire. Like Bassem Tamimi and Mazin Quimseyeh. Blessed are the peacemakers. They have their rewards. One of those rewards is I expect they can look at themselves in the mirror and not be haunted by the things that haunt so many there. I think about the soldiers of Breaking the Silence, I heard the comment repeated so many times that they had to speak out about their experiences as soldiers in the Occupation because they could not look at themselves in the mirror anymore. They could not be silent and keep the horrible things they were a part of hidden any longer. Speaking was liberating. Well, people like Bardin and Tamimi and Qumsiyeh are free of that. They certainly shall suffer for seeking peace and opposing Injustice, but no doubt but that it is worth it. The rewards outweigh the costs. These are the choices where we have the opportunities to make a positive difference with our lives in this world. A few days ago a Facebook friend of mine from Gaza started a discussion with me. I never had really talked to him before.We became friends through Facebook activism seeking the freedom of hunger striker political prisoner Samer Issawi. I asked him where be was, he said Gaza. He asked me where I was, I told him where I lived in the US, the state I lived in. He said, you are so lucky to live there. I have not had a chance to continue the discussion, but I find this a very difficult comment to respond to. So many mixed feelings I have. And it really matters a lot what I say to him.

 

[whitehall]

Palestinians live in peace in Israel. Israelis do not enjoy freedom under Palestinian rule. Jews are sometimes murdered during religious celebrations and weddings by retarded Palestinian kids who have bomb vests strapped on them by cowardly jihadists. An illustration of the media double standard was the worldwide outrage that a single liberal American Palestine activist was run over when she walked in front of a Israeli bulldozer cleaning up rubble. Not much outrage about the carnage inflicted by suicide bombers.

 

[Billo_Really]

Palestinians live in peace in Israel. Israelis do not enjoy freedom under Palestinian rule.

Got a link to back that up?

Jews are sometimes murdered during religious celebrations and weddings by retarded Palestinian kids who have bomb vests strapped on them by cowardly jihadists.

Where's your link to that?

An illustration of the media double standard was the worldwide outrage that a single liberal American Palestine activist was run over when she walked in front of a Israeli bulldozer cleaning up rubble.

Rachel Corrie was deliberately ran over with a bulldozer in the process of razing a Palestinian doctors' home.

Not much outrage about the carnage inflicted by suicide bombers.

There is outrage when the incidents occur.

 

[Billo_Really]

During the first intifada in Palestine one Zionist in the IDF discovered many of the Arabs he was arresting had no interest in driving the Jews into the sea:

"Hillel Bardin, a confirmed Zionist, was a reservist in the Israeli army during the first intifada when he met Palestinians arrested by his unit.

"He learned that they supported peace with Israel and the then-taboo proposal for a two-state solution. Bardin began to organize dialogues between Arabs and Israelis in West Bank villages, towns, and refugee camps.

Can you guess how Bardin's superiors responded to dialogues between Jew and Arab?

"In 1988, he was jailed for meeting with Palestinians while on active duty in Ramallah.

"Over the next two decades, he participated in a variety of peace organizations and actions, from arranging for Israelis to visit Palestinian communities and homes, to the joint jogging group 'Runners for Peace,' to marches, political organizing, and demonstrations supporting peace, security, and freedom.

A Zionist among Palestinians

Bardin found no shortage of partners for peace.
That makes me wonder how hard Bibi is looking.

I think we need more articles about the Israeli left, who deserve our complete support.

 

[georgephillip]

The Zionists on this forum, like Zionists elsewhere, are not really interested in living peacefully with the indigenous people of Palestine. They want them out, as this story illustrates.

Have they jumped you as an "anti-Semite" yet for posting this story?

If not, just wait 'til they start hurling their bags of doo-doo at you. If you're not anti-semitic now you probably will be by the time they get through with you.

XXXXXXXXXX Choosing to post in this Forum requires all posts to comply with Zone 1 Posting Rules. No Name Calling Posters, No Flaming, No Baiting.
Hasbara: Why does the world fail to understand us? | +972 Magazine

Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding those who rightly object loudly to racist Arab bigotry without ever criticizing some equally racist Jews.

 

[georgephillip]

It is sad how Zionist leaders so resist peace and go after their own, the ones who really want peace and actively seek peaceful co existence . I greatly admire these Israelis like Hillel Bardin. There are Palestinians just as committed to peace and who renounce violence who I also greatly admire. Like Bassem Tamimi and Mazin Quimseyeh. Blessed are the peacemakers. They have their rewards. One of those rewards is I expect they can look at themselves in the mirror and not be haunted by the things that haunt so many there. I think about the soldiers of Breaking the Silence, I heard the comment repeated so many times that they had to speak out about their experiences as soldiers in the Occupation because they could not look at themselves in the mirror anymore. They could not be silent and keep the horrible things they were a part of hidden any longer. Speaking was liberating. Well, people like Bardin and Tamimi and Qumsiyeh are free of that. They certainly shall suffer for seeking peace and opposing Injustice, but no doubt but that it is worth it. The rewards outweigh the costs. These are the choices where we have the opportunities to make a positive difference with our lives in this world. A few days ago a Facebook friend of mine from Gaza started a discussion with me. I never had really talked to him before.We became friends through Facebook activism seeking the freedom of hunger striker political prisoner Samer Issawi. I asked him where be was, he said Gaza. He asked me where I was, I told him where I lived in the US, the state I lived in. He said, you are so lucky to live there. I have not had a chance to continue the discussion, but I find this a very difficult comment to respond to. So many mixed feelings I have. And it really matters a lot what I say to him.

Chomsky is always a good starting point when trying to understand those mixed feelings, Sherri.
He never fails to remind activists in the US how lucky we are to have Constitutional protections.
Imagine Noam's fate if he had been born in Tibet or Gaza, for that matter.

He gave the following interview shortly after 911:

"Now, our systematic falsification of history… well, let’s just take where we’re talking right now

Well, we’re here in New England because religious fanatics, extreme fanatic religious fundamentalists, very much like Islamic fundamentalists, landed here and mercilessly destroyed the indigenous population.

"So we’re here.

"That’s not the way it’s taught, but that’s the way it was.."

"And this falsification of history has consequences.

"In fact, we saw some of them on Sept 11th.

"Here, the commentary often… much of the commentary is: 'Well, why do they hate us?' And a lot of the commentary, op eds, in The New York Times and so on, by big thinkers, was: 'Well, they hate us because we stand for freedom and democracy and prosperity and therefore they hate us.'

"Well, that’s a nice, comforting point of view, but it’s totally false."

It seems to me Jewish, Christian, and Muslim elites, particularly their financial elites, depend heavily upon impressing false points of view upon their "foot soldiers."

I would suggest thinking through the consequences you and I face for freely expressing our points of view in the US versus the much greater potential for negative consequences faced by those like Tamimi and Quimseyeh and Hillel Bardin.

I'm guessing a (large?) majority of Israelis, Palestinians, and Americans would be in favor of peace in Palestine yet their elites all find it to their economic advantage to pursue war.

The Fifth Freedom, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Stephen Marshall

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Kerry’s ‘Pax Israeliana’ has failed. What next?

by*Jeff Halper*on July 3, 2013* Speaking of Israels Left, this is a very interesting article from an Israeli and I am encouraged by how he sees BDS actually strengthened by recent events. "Despite the fact that a majority of Israeli Jews favor a two-state solution of some sort and hold fairly negative views of the settler enterprise, no solution that even approaches the Palestinian demand for a viable, truly sovereign, territorially contiguous state with East Jerusalem as its capital has a chance of passing through the Knesset, even if it was approved by referendum. And the will on the part of United States – Congress in particular – to force Israel to accept such a solution is missing altogether, as Kerry’s lackluster diplomacy demonstrates. Kerry's 'Pax Israeliana' has failed. What next?. BDS is definitely the way forward. Noone really had any hope the US could be an honest broker of a viable peace agreement.

Copyright/Fair Use

 

[Lipush]

During the first intifada in Palestine one Zionist in the IDF discovered many of the Arabs he was arresting had no interest in driving the Jews into the sea:

"Hillel Bardin, a confirmed Zionist, was a reservist in the Israeli army during the first intifada when he met Palestinians arrested by his unit.

"He learned that they supported peace with Israel and the then-taboo proposal for a two-state solution. Bardin began to organize dialogues between Arabs and Israelis in West Bank villages, towns, and refugee camps.

Can you guess how Bardin's superiors responded to dialogues between Jew and Arab?

"In 1988, he was jailed for meeting with Palestinians while on active duty in Ramallah.

"Over the next two decades, he participated in a variety of peace organizations and actions, from arranging for Israelis to visit Palestinian communities and homes, to the joint jogging group 'Runners for Peace,' to marches, political organizing, and demonstrations supporting peace, security, and freedom.

A Zionist among Palestinians

Bardin found no shortage of partners for peace.
That makes me wonder how hard Bibi is looking.

I think we need more articles about the Israeli left, who deserve our complete support.

Which Israeli left you refer to?

Peace now? NIF? The Anarchists?

Need I remind you that many of the extreme Israeli left care more about the rights of a hostile community than the right of their own people?

Which left deserve the support?

From us, they get pity, mostly.

 

[Lipush]

It is sad how Zionist leaders so resist peace and go after their own, the ones who really want peace and actively seek peaceful co existence . I greatly admire these Israelis like Hillel Bardin. There are Palestinians just as committed to peace and who renounce violence who I also greatly admire. Like Bassem Tamimi and Mazin Quimseyeh. Blessed are the peacemakers. They have their rewards. One of those rewards is I expect they can look at themselves in the mirror and not be haunted by the things that haunt so many there. I think about the soldiers of Breaking the Silence, I heard the comment repeated so many times that they had to speak out about their experiences as soldiers in the Occupation because they could not look at themselves in the mirror anymore. They could not be silent and keep the horrible things they were a part of hidden any longer. Speaking was liberating. Well, people like Bardin and Tamimi and Qumsiyeh are free of that. They certainly shall suffer for seeking peace and opposing Injustice, but no doubt but that it is worth it. The rewards outweigh the costs. These are the choices where we have the opportunities to make a positive difference with our lives in this world. A few days ago a Facebook friend of mine from Gaza started a discussion with me. I never had really talked to him before.We became friends through Facebook activism seeking the freedom of hunger striker political prisoner Samer Issawi. I asked him where be was, he said Gaza. He asked me where I was, I told him where I lived in the US, the state I lived in. He said, you are so lucky to live there. I have not had a chance to continue the discussion, but I find this a very difficult comment to respond to. So many mixed feelings I have. And it really matters a lot what I say to him.

Which Palestinian leader openly called for complete stop to the Palestinian terror, recognizing Israel's right of existence in security, without early demands?

in other words, which Palestinian leader told he or she will be ready for true everlasting peace?

I cannot recall even one.

So before pointing out OUR refusal, why not pointing out the Palestinian one as well?

 

[georgephillip]

"How do we respond to Kerry? I don’t know of anyone familiar with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – across the board – who sees in the Kerry initiative anything other than an attempt to impose on the Palestinians a Pax Israeliana.

"In fact, neither Kerry nor his Israeli partners bother to deny it.

"For his part, Kerry’s main contribution to this latest incarnation of the long-moribund 'peace process' is a vague $4 billion package of 'incentives’ – part of what Amira Hass calls hush money – that bears a striking resemblance to the 'economic peace' Netanyahu and Peres have been trying to peddle for years.

"Otherwise, Kerry is merely pressing the Palestinians to accept Israel’s preconditions for negotiations and its version of a two-state solution: no end to settlement construction, land expropriation, house demolitions (28,000 Palestinian homes demolished since 1967, and counting) or displacement; recognition of Israel as a 'Jewish' state..."

Such a deal!

 

[Intense]

Zone 1 Rules apply here. Keep it civil and on topic. Using this Forum for a protected soap box platform will guarantee the failure of the thread.

 

[holston]

The Zionists on this forum, like Zionists elsewhere, are not really interested in living peacefully with the indigenous people of Palestine. They want them out, as this story illustrates.

Have they jumped you as an "anti-Semite" yet for posting this story?

If not, just wait 'til they start hurling their bags of doo-doo at you. If you're not anti-semitic now you probably will be by the time they get through with you.

XXXXXXXXXX Choosing to post in this Forum requires all posts to comply with Zone 1 Posting Rules. No Name Calling Posters, No Flaming, No Baiting.
Hasbara: Why does the world fail to understand us? | +972 Magazine

Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding those who rightly object loudly to racist Arab bigotry without ever criticizing some equally racist Jews.

You mentioned Chomsky. This might be of interest to you.

Jew or Not Jew: Noam Chomsky

Noam Chomsky

Jew Score:
7


December 7, 1928 —

"By now Jews in the US are the most privileged and influential part of the population. You find occasional instances of anti-semitism but they are marginal." — Noam Chomsky

Hooray! We wouldn't have thought so, but this is Noam Chomsky! The father of modern linguistics! One of the most cited academics! Recently named the top living intellectual!

So let's invite everyone from across our Christian nation, Jew and gentile, build a campfire and sing kumbaya. It's over! After thousands of years, anti-semitism is over! Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya...

"Anti-semitism is no longer a problem. It's raised, but it's raised because privileged people want to make sure they have total control, not just 98% control." — Noam Chomsky

Oh. Hmmmm. Really? Oh. Hmmmm.

Maybe anti-semitism is not over after all. We have a shining example right here.

Verdict: Sadly, a Jew.

note: the word "Christian" is crossed out in the original article.


Pardon me. I didn't know there were so many people who were offended by the word
"D00-D00". Have you watched any TV or seen a movie lately? How about surfed the net?

 

[Ropey]

It's ok to have one among them. Israel has a few Palestinians among our Zionists.

^^ Not this one, though.

The theme of his doctoral dissertation was "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".

Mahmoud Abbas

He's rather recalcitrant. But we're trying to get him to understand. I mean he's supposed to be the peaceful one.

It's rather doubtful. I see a two state solution slipping away.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKxyoud_c-E]Paul Simon Slip Slidin' Away - Live at Abbey Road - YouTube[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

It's ok to have one among them. Israel has a few Palestinians among our Zionists.

^^ Not this one, though.

The theme of his doctoral dissertation was "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".

Mahmoud Abbas

He's rather recalcitrant. But we're trying to get him to understand. I mean he's supposed to be the peaceful one.

It's rather doubtful. I see a two state solution slipping away.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKxyoud_c-E]Paul Simon Slip Slidin' Away - Live at Abbey Road - YouTube[/ame]

It appears to many that a two-state solution is no longer viable.
With approximate equal numbers of Jews and Arabs currently living between the River and the sea, the time has come for all good Jews and Arabs to choose between their religion/nationality and Democracy.

 

[Ropey]

It's ok to have one among them. Israel has a few Palestinians among our Zionists.

^^ Not this one, though.

The theme of his doctoral dissertation was "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".

Mahmoud Abbas

He's rather recalcitrant. But we're trying to get him to understand. I mean he's supposed to be the peaceful one.

It's rather doubtful. I see a two state solution slipping away.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKxyoud_c-E]Paul Simon Slip Slidin' Away - Live at Abbey Road - YouTube[/ame]

It appears to many that a two-state solution is no longer viable.
With approximate equal numbers of Jews and Arabs currently living between the River and the sea, the time has come for all good Jews and Arabs to choose between their religion/nationality and Democracy.

The time seems to be coming in another direction than Israel/Palestine.

js

 

[georgephillip]

"Following one of the most heated debates the Israeli parliament has seen in recent years, the Knesset approved the Prawer-Begin Plan for the Arrangement of Bedouin-Palestinian Settlement in the Negev yesterday (Monday).

"Commonly referred to as the Prawer Plan, the new legislation will allow the government to destroy dozens of so-called 'unrecognized' villages in the South and remove between 30-40,000 Bedouin from their homes.

"According to the plan, those Bedouin citizens who have registered land claims will be offered monetary compensation or land in an area designated for resettlement.

"Following demands from the right-wing Jewish Home party, a new article was added to the bill at the last minute, stipulating that the government’s compensation offer will expire after a certain period of time; failure to comply with the process will not only result in forced removal to the relocation zones but also a loss of monetary compensation or land, which would have previously been offered.

"This is the largest attempted eviction of a native Palestinian population by Israel in decades.

"At the end of the process, all remaining Bedouin land claims will be erased from the state record."

Collision course: Plan to displace tens of thousands of Bedouin passes first Knesset vote | +972 Magazine

 

[holston]

Paul Simon Slip Slidin' Away - Live at Abbey Road - YouTube
It appears to many that a two-state solution is no longer viable.
With approximate equal numbers of Jews and Arabs currently living between the River and the sea, the time has come for all good Jews and Arabs to choose between their religion/nationality and Democracy.

If there's any truth to this statement...........

"Anti-semitism is no longer a problem. It's raised, but it's raised because privileged people want to make sure they have total control, not just 98% control." — Noam Chomsky

............what do you think the likely choice will be?

Any Zionist is going to tell you that there is no reasoning with Muslims.

I wouldn't disagree with them so far as a Muslim compromising beliefs he holds religiously .

Unfortunately the same thing is true with Zionists and Jews.

(Only Christians are supposed to back peddle. If you don't, then they will say you're not being Christian. You don't want that do you? Heaven forbid!)

So what are the US goyim expected to do about this?

You know the answer. It's right in front of your face.

We are supposed to back Israel to the last dollar and drop of blood we have available. ( When fighting for Zionism, "Turn the other cheek" and "Love thine enemy" also is no longer applicable.)

What's to prevent that? We've already allowed ourselves to be talked out of relinquishing all claims to autonomy ourselves as well as to defend our on culture, heritage, and even RELIGION, to the MULTICULTURAL hoards, by the Zionist Jews and their Marxist helpers.


I propose that we stay out of other people's business. That includes Israel.
It's high time that they learn how to get along peacefully with their neighbors just as they have taught us to accept foreigners , INCLUDING MUSLIMS, amongst ourselves right here in the good ol' US.

If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for them.

No more aid to Israel. No more weapons. No more technology. No more following THEIR ORDERS or catering to THEIR wishes. We do too much of that in the US already.

If it wasn't so crystal clear what their ambitions and attitudes in the US are, I might feel a little different. God knows I used to. NOT ANYMORE!

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe it's worth asking "what's changed" in the last generation or two that's lead you to your current political position on Israel and the Middle East. I'm often (rightly) condemned on this board for non-sequitur, but it seems possible that the US ambitions and attitudes you reference are revealed perfectly by the Snowden affair: We can't stay out of other people's business, especially Israel's colonization of Palestine, because financial capital dictates politics from DC to the EU to Tel Aviv:

The Servility of the Satellites » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

"The Snowden affair has revealed even more about Europe than about the United States.

"Certainly, the facts of NSA spying are significant. But many people suspected that something of the sort was going on.

"The refusal of France, Italy and Portugal to allow the private aircraft of the President of Bolivia to cross their airspace on the mere suspicion that Edward Snowden might be aboard is rather more astonishing.

"Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the 'Western democracies' into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name."

The dominant Empire of its day gave its blessing to a "Jewish homeland in Palestine" in 1917, about six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. At the end of WWII, the US picked up where England left off. Three generations later, Wall Street and the City of London, acting through bureaucracies like the EU, decide who will live and die from Damascus to Gaza in spite of the political will of the majority of the world.