A very serious thread about race relations

[ricechickie]

Don't expect that model to accomplish much.

You do know that there are single parents whose children do NOT succumb to crime, drugs, and poverty, right? Those single-parent families are going to get defensive, recognizing that no one factor is a guarantee of success or failure.

Two points.


1. Only if someone tells them that a general problem is a personal, likely "racist" insult.


2. So, we don't address a huge social problem because it might hurt some people's feelings? That is not valid to me.

It's not about hurt feelings; it's just ineffective because of the hurt feelings.

I'm telling you how it is, but it's not how you want it to be. That's not my problem.

If we have pro-job policies and put out the truth about how illegitimacy is harmful to children, young women are going to have the option of finding fathers who can also be providers.


That some single moms, and their political allies are unhappy does not stop that, unless we let them.

If you put out that truth, you are only putting out part of the story.

Is it always best to have a two-parent home when one is abusive? Is a two-parent home best when both are miserable with each other?

Education is about more than propagandizing the American dream. Honest conversations need to be had, more than prescribing how people behave. Meaning that, with all other things being equal, a two-parent home works better because it is easier to raise a child with a committed partner. Because there's someone else to pick up the slack. Because you have another pair of ears and eyes and another person's judgment for the tough problems.

So, how would you suggest addressing this issue?

Just the way I presented it. Not as a set of rules, but as a series of life challenges for which problem-solving is needed.

We all do the best we can with what we've got.

 

[ricechickie]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

 

[Rocko]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

 

[Rocko]

If you're part of the liberal protected class you're infallible

 

[Dogmaphobe]

In other words jillian is an idiot. Yes, I know Mac,very true. Nazis and white supremacists are a tiny micro-slim-minority with no power whatsoever. Jillian acts like they're a yuuuge problem. She's stupid. Just ignore them and try to live a good life. That goes for black lives matters and antifa, or any other hate group.

Jillian thinks they are a huge problem because her television tells her so. Her television tells her so because they have a vested interested in stirring the pot. They have a vested interest in stirring the pot because they have stories to sell. They have stories to sell because they earn a living from it.

Jillian is incapable of original thought, so cannot connect the dots.

 

[Rocko]

In other words jillian is an idiot. Yes, I know Mac,very true. Nazis and white supremacists are a tiny micro-slim-minority with no power whatsoever. Jillian acts like they're a yuuuge problem. She's stupid. Just ignore them and try to live a good life. That goes for black lives matters and antifa, or any other hate group.

Jillian thinks they are a huge problem because her television tells her so. Her television tells her so because they have a vested interested in stirring the pot. They have a vested interest in stirring the pot because they have stories to sell. They have stories to sell because they earn a living from it.

Jillian is incapable of original thought, so cannot connect the dots.

Yes! Thank you!

 

[Pogo]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

 

[Pogo]

The same kind of talk that so derails race conversations, you did with politics.

You just criticized my whole side of the political spectrum.

Nice.

What derails any conversation on race, is the constant use of false accusations of racism, ie The Race Card.

I spoke of the Left as a general group. Unless specified, normally people understand that comments about a large group, does not mean universally.


If someone says that a city is very excited about their team making the Superbowl, you know that there are rare individuals in that city that, for whatever reason, don't give a damn.

Then you've just called out your own fallacy.

I'm just getting here but I can see by simply looking up two levels in the nest that you just used two broad-brush generalizations, "the right" and "the left". Unless you can prove that what follows applies literally to every member thereof, whatever follows will be a lie.

Nope. Generalizations are generalizations. YOur pretense that you don't understand that is silly.


noun
1.
the act or process of generalizing.
2.
a result of this process; a general statement, idea, or principle.
3.
Logic.

1. a proposition asserting something to be true either of all membersof a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

Wrong. It still remains a fatal fallacy, very possibly the most insidious one used on this board. When you declare "the right" or "the left" or any other blanket statement and follow it with an absolute, you accuse every member in it of whatever follows.

Again, unless you can show that that's true of the entire class, then your argument is a lie. And that makes the point useless.

It's also, and I don't know if this point has already been made, a fallacy that is an essential tool to develop racism (or any other kind of bigotry). "They all look alike to me". It belies a profound inability to see and hear. And when it's coupled with an absolute accusation against a race, which is what we call "racism" --- it's an exercise of the same fallacy.

That's exactly why I spend so much energy pushing against that fallacy on this board. It's the sociopathic equivalent of It says "you don't matter, I will now disrespect you by attributing traits to you that you never claimed and do not believe in". That's profoundly ignorant. And divisive.

The bolded portion of the definition shows that it is NOT an absolute.

THus your calling it a lie, is the lie.

Wrong. The lie is still the fallacy and there's nothing you can do about it except to admit that the fallacy is dishonest, abandon it, and finally begin making honest arguments..

If you're too myopic to see it in your own posting, have a look at somebody else going down the same hole, here:

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism Is bashing white Christian men.

See the phrase "to a liberal"? That's the generalization. Everything that follows is the absolute accusation. It's not "to some liberals"; it's not "to many liberals" --- it's all-inclusive. And that makes it dishonest.

Now take "to a liberal" and substitute "to a black" or "to an Asian" or "to a Jew" or "to a woman" or "to a Panamanian". Now you see how a broad brush generalization is a necessary starting point for racism and bigotry in general.

 

[Pogo]

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

In other words jillian is an idiot. Yes, I know Mac,very true. Nazis and white supremacists are a tiny micro-slim-minority with no power whatsoever. Jillian acts like they're a yuuuge problem. She's stupid. Just ignore them and try to live a good life. That goes for black lives matters and antifa, or any other hate group.

Jillian is not an idiot, far from it. She disagrees with you (and me, on this topic).

The "you disagree with me, so you're dumb" canard is a big part of the problem.
.

I beg to differ, Jillian is complete moron. I say that not because she disagrees with me, I say that because she proves it over and over again with her thoughtless posts. It is her who believes she owns the moral and intellectual high ground over anyone that disagrees with her.

Here's Mac pointing out the poster is digging himself into a hole, and the poster responds by acquiring a bigger shovel and digging deeper.

Really makes ya wonder what's blocking some people's heads.

 

[Rocko]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

 

[Rocko]

What derails any conversation on race, is the constant use of false accusations of racism, ie The Race Card.

I spoke of the Left as a general group. Unless specified, normally people understand that comments about a large group, does not mean universally.


If someone says that a city is very excited about their team making the Superbowl, you know that there are rare individuals in that city that, for whatever reason, don't give a damn.

Then you've just called out your own fallacy.

I'm just getting here but I can see by simply looking up two levels in the nest that you just used two broad-brush generalizations, "the right" and "the left". Unless you can prove that what follows applies literally to every member thereof, whatever follows will be a lie.

Nope. Generalizations are generalizations. YOur pretense that you don't understand that is silly.


noun
1.
the act or process of generalizing.
2.
a result of this process; a general statement, idea, or principle.
3.
Logic.

1. a proposition asserting something to be true either of all membersof a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

Wrong. It still remains a fatal fallacy, very possibly the most insidious one used on this board. When you declare "the right" or "the left" or any other blanket statement and follow it with an absolute, you accuse every member in it of whatever follows.

Again, unless you can show that that's true of the entire class, then your argument is a lie. And that makes the point useless.

It's also, and I don't know if this point has already been made, a fallacy that is an essential tool to develop racism (or any other kind of bigotry). "They all look alike to me". It belies a profound inability to see and hear. And when it's coupled with an absolute accusation against a race, which is what we call "racism" --- it's an exercise of the same fallacy.

That's exactly why I spend so much energy pushing against that fallacy on this board. It's the sociopathic equivalent of It says "you don't matter, I will now disrespect you by attributing traits to you that you never claimed and do not believe in". That's profoundly ignorant. And divisive.

The bolded portion of the definition shows that it is NOT an absolute.

THus your calling it a lie, is the lie.

Wrong. The lie is still the fallacy and there's nothing you can do about it except to admit that the fallacy is dishonest, abandon it, and finally begin making honest arguments..

If you're too myopic to see it in your own posting, have a look at somebody else going down the same hole, here:

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism Is bashing white Christian men.

See the phrase "to a liberal"? That's the generalization. Everything that follows is the absolute accusation. It's not "to some liberals"; it's not "to many liberals" --- it's all-inclusive. And that makes it dishonest.

Now take "to a liberal" and substitute "to a black" or "to an Asian" or "to a Jew" or "to a woman" or "to a Panamanian". Now you see how a broad brush generalization is a necessary starting point for racism and bigotry in general.

Yeah whatever. I didn't think I needed to add a qualifier for you to get the point, but for the mentally challenged - many liberals. Happy?

 

[Correll]

What derails any conversation on race, is the constant use of false accusations of racism, ie The Race Card.

I spoke of the Left as a general group. Unless specified, normally people understand that comments about a large group, does not mean universally.


If someone says that a city is very excited about their team making the Superbowl, you know that there are rare individuals in that city that, for whatever reason, don't give a damn.

Then you've just called out your own fallacy.

I'm just getting here but I can see by simply looking up two levels in the nest that you just used two broad-brush generalizations, "the right" and "the left". Unless you can prove that what follows applies literally to every member thereof, whatever follows will be a lie.

Nope. Generalizations are generalizations. YOur pretense that you don't understand that is silly.


noun
1.
the act or process of generalizing.
2.
a result of this process; a general statement, idea, or principle.
3.
Logic.

1. a proposition asserting something to be true either of all membersof a certain class or of an indefinite part of that class.

Wrong. It still remains a fatal fallacy, very possibly the most insidious one used on this board. When you declare "the right" or "the left" or any other blanket statement and follow it with an absolute, you accuse every member in it of whatever follows.

Again, unless you can show that that's true of the entire class, then your argument is a lie. And that makes the point useless.

It's also, and I don't know if this point has already been made, a fallacy that is an essential tool to develop racism (or any other kind of bigotry). "They all look alike to me". It belies a profound inability to see and hear. And when it's coupled with an absolute accusation against a race, which is what we call "racism" --- it's an exercise of the same fallacy.

That's exactly why I spend so much energy pushing against that fallacy on this board. It's the sociopathic equivalent of It says "you don't matter, I will now disrespect you by attributing traits to you that you never claimed and do not believe in". That's profoundly ignorant. And divisive.

The bolded portion of the definition shows that it is NOT an absolute.

THus your calling it a lie, is the lie.

Wrong. The lie is still the fallacy and there's nothing you can do about it except to admit that the fallacy is dishonest, abandon it, and finally begin making honest arguments..

If you're too myopic to see it in your own posting, have a look at somebody else going down the same hole, here:
....

Says the man completely ignoring the dictionary definition of the word, and expecting the rest of us to listen to him on this.

 

[Pogo]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

Is there a reading noncomprehension contest going on?

And if there is, do I still have time to place a bet?

 

[Rocko]

To a liberal only a white Christian male can be racist. What they mean by talking about racism
Is bashing white Christian men.

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

Is there a reading noncomprehension contest going on?

And if there is, do I still have time to place a bet?

I never told her what her experiences are. You said I did. And then you said that was an aspect of the issue. Wtf are you talking about, imbecile?

 

[Pogo]

 

[ricechickie]

In my experience, you're wrong.

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

Is there a reading noncomprehension contest going on?

And if there is, do I still have time to place a bet?

I never told her what her experiences are. You said I did. And then you said that was an aspect of the issue. Wtf are you talking about, imbecile?

You asked when was the last time I saw a liberal call out blacks, Latinos, and Muslims for racism. Then you said it never happened.

Yes, you were telling me about my experiences, before I had a chance to answer your question.

 

[Markle]

I know people talk about it, but "top priority"? No. There are a lot bigger problems in the world besides trying to legislate stupid people (AKA racist dimwits).

Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why some people feel skin tone is such a big deal. Most of our differences are cultural, not genetic. Genetically, we're 99.5-99.9% alike.

Please show us your reliable source and link stating that there is any genetic difference in Homo-Sapiens, much less one as great as 0.5%. You cannot. However, I do understand your desperate need to feel superior in some material way. You are NOT.

Why is it you have not gone to the effort of learning about genetics if you're going to make such foolish claims?

My understanding is that we, Homo-Sapiens, are 99% the same as gorillas. Or is that your point?

 

[Rocko]

Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a liberal go after a black, Latino or let's say a Muslim for their hate? The next time will be the first time.

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

Is there a reading noncomprehension contest going on?

And if there is, do I still have time to place a bet?

I never told her what her experiences are. You said I did. And then you said that was an aspect of the issue. Wtf are you talking about, imbecile?

You asked when was the last time I saw a liberal call out blacks, Latinos, and Muslims for racism. Then you said it never happened.

Yes, you were telling me about my experiences, before I had a chance to answer your question.

Did you say it ever happened? All you said was I was wrong according to what you've experienced. You never mentioned blacks, muslims or Hispanics being called out for there racism. So I'd love to hear about one of your anecdotal otal experiences that you seem to be reluctant to describe.

 

[ricechickie]

You're actually going to sit on the internets and tell other people what their experiences are?

That's another aspect of the issue right there.

When did I do that? What issue? Are you saying I'm a racist?

Is there a reading noncomprehension contest going on?

And if there is, do I still have time to place a bet?

I never told her what her experiences are. You said I did. And then you said that was an aspect of the issue. Wtf are you talking about, imbecile?

You asked when was the last time I saw a liberal call out blacks, Latinos, and Muslims for racism. Then you said it never happened.

Yes, you were telling me about my experiences, before I had a chance to answer your question.

Did you say it ever happened? All you said was I was wrong according to what you've experienced. You never mentioned blacks, muslims or Hispanics being called out for there racism. So I'd love to hear about one of your antidotal experiences that you seem to be reluctant to describe.

You literally asked the question and then answered it yourself. Maybe you should just post and reply to yourself......cut out the middle man.

And yes, I have seen liberals call out black people for their racism. I've seen black liberals call out other black people for racism.

It happens.

 

[Markle]

That seems very nice. Do you want a cookie?

I didn't call you a racist, but thanks for the defense.

Yes, but not chocolate, I don't like chocolate.

No defense, I was stating a simple fact.

Would you like to take an interesting test to find out who you are prejudiced against? I bet you have a string of them!