A Simple Question or Two

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by Modbert, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Background Information: Israel and everybody who has defended it the last couple weeks has stated that Hamas is using children as shields. Here's what I'm wondering:

    1.) If this is the case, then why has Israel continued to shoot artillery and not invade?

    2.) How many people have to die before Israel decides, "Hey, you know this artillery is really getting us nowhere"?

    I'm not defending Hamas in anyway. I have already said many times that Israel should invade the strip and get it over with.

    But my point being, when is this going to be? If Israel knows that this artillery is only killing more innocents then civilians, then why the fuck would one keep bombing?

    Currently people like David, Jillian, and others keep saying how Israel can do no wrong but of course:

    In Gaza, truce crumbles as diplomats eye cease-fire talks - CNN.com

    They are UNAWARE? REALLY? Bullshit.

    So Israel bombed a school being used as a shelter, and try to say Hamas was bombing from there in order to cover their own asses. This is truly a war, no matter where Israel bombs whether there were Hamas militants there or not; they will say there was.

    And for those of you keeping count at home:

    How about that Jillian? The deaths of women/children don't seem to be below 20% to me.

    I find this whole situation to be fucking sickening at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  2. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    At least 680 Palestinians have been killed and 3,000 wounded in Gaza since the campaign began on December 27, Palestinian medical officials said. Nearly a third of the deaths and 45 percent of the injuries are women and children, according to the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. Seven Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed.




    You have just got to be the dimmest bulb in the box.. Come up outta that dank little hole you live in and quit spouting talking points..


    Wise up.. During World War 2 we killed more Germans than Germans killed us.. get it???
     
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  3. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Invoking Godwin's Law eh?

    I'm not spouting talking points, you merely cannot answer my questions.

    By the way, Israel isn't the U.S and the Palis aren't the Germans. Or you having one too many hits of LSD lately?

    We weren't shooting artillery for weeks on end, knowing we're hitting children without invading. During WWII, we actually invaded; gee what a concept eh?

    Invading another country because Artillery is never 100% effective, imagine that?
     
  4. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    last time I looked bozo Israel had invaded Gazaland! yep! you just gotta come up into the light! Sprinkle a little holy water on ya first. see what transpires!
     
  5. Epsilon Delta
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    Epsilon Delta Jedi Master

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    The question I want to ask is:

    If there was one terrorist hiding in gym, along with 100 Americans, is it ok to bomb it?

    Or is it only Ok when it's Palestinians?
     
  6. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    we wouldn't have to, 100 Americans holed up in a gym with one terrorist.. :lol:
     
  7. Epsilon Delta
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    Epsilon Delta Jedi Master

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    Well, that's why he's hiding!

    aosidHJSA{ODIAHSDPOIDS.
     
  8. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    It is a military tactic, used by military forces in the past and it works. Its a way of making a siege, surrounding a city and then exhausting who is defending it. What hamas is doing is: now hiding with the civilians or in underground bunkers so they don't get exhausted before they have to pick a fight.

    If they would have invaded directly they would be doing the most stupid thing they could do, that s what Hamas wants them to do because then Hamas has full advantage because in a street fight in an urban area tanks and air support are limited in their actions and the ods are in favor of Hamas. The Israeli loose their advantages if they would invade directly.

    Other then that you have psychologic advantages when sieging a city and waiting a long time before you attack, Hamas isn't able to fight and their morale will drop the longer they are under siege. Maybe there will even come a point where Hamas fighters might ask themselves why they are doing this. Also Hamas leadership might be questioned: why their leaders are safe in their bunkers a lot of Hamas fighters are not (they might feel cheated). And the other advantage that is gained is the very question you posed: "Why do they wait? What are they waiting for?" This insecurity will keep the militants "in the dark" about their fate and their is nothing more devastating to morale of a military force. Eventually it might lead to suicide attacks (not suicide bombers) from militants that want fight the IDF outside their stronghold (Gaza City).

    The bad thing of course is that this is not the middle ages anymore, the Israeli people don't want casualties and so does the rest of the world. While it might seem bad from a political point of view, from a military point of view the situation is actually very good for Israel and very bad for Hamas.
    And that is the thing people tend to forget, this is a war: the military point of view might be even more important then the political point of view.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
  9. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Asking Israel to send troops into GAZA before bombing the crap out of it, is asking a bit much, don't you think?

    Did American send in troops before invading Iraq?

    No?

    Why not?

    We ALSO knew that while we were softening up the opposition we were killing civilians, but bomb them we did.

    Modern warfare, like it or not, means that civilians are oten legitimate targets (to break their war machine as in the case of WWII) or they are unfortunate collatorial damages.

    Oh, we all give lipservice to the fact that we're not TRYING to kill civilians, and we might even occassionally eshew a target precisely because the death count of civilians might be too high.

    But the bottom line is that we expect our GENERALS to win the war with the miniumum number of troops casualties, and that means that civilians are going to die.

    Partisans on BOTH sides of this debate are, I think, seeking to give their side the moral high ground and I have to tell you, from my perspective neither side has anything to be proud of.


    Israel has every right to STOP those rockets. No government on earth could NOT do something to stop that behavior and expect to be in power for very long.

    HAMAS knows that perfectly well which is precisely WHY they are lobbing them into Isreal.

    They WANT the world to be shocked by images of dead Palestinian children because the moment those images stop making the evening news, everybody forgets what a shithole that the people of GAZA are forced to live in.

    The war of terrorism can ONLY work in a world where the media can show people what is happening.

    A war of terrorism is a MEDIA war.

    Terror is a PROPAGANDA technique.

    Right now Israel is losing that war.

    The moment the fighting stops, and the world turns it attention to the next big news, the people of GAZA, their plight is forgotten again, and then Isreal wins...until the whole mess starts up again.

    AFter 50 years of this, I'd think we ALL understand what is happening, and WHY, too.

    Apparently, given the outrage so many of your partisans on both sides seem to be feeling, I am mistaken about that.

    My biggest foible, is, I think giving people too much credit for understanding what seems obvious to me.

    Does anyone here think that HAMAS thought it would bring down Isreal with those rockets?

    No?

    Then why on earth do you think they lobbed them to begin with?

    To evoke a RESPONSE from Israel, of course.

    Nobody much cared when that was happening to Israel, did they?

    Nobody except the people of Israel, of course.

    Now the Israeli and the Zionists might honestly believe that nobody cares because everybody is either an latent or and overt anti-semite, but many of us understand that the reason few of us cared is because the body counts were not juicy enough to make our media notice it, so they'd bring it to our attention.

    Just like none of us noticed it while the people of GAZA died of poverty and hopelessness, either.

    If it BLEEDS IT LEADS, folks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
  10. Gurdari
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    Gurdari Egaliterra

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    Always check the skin tone (darker), last name (exotic sounding), and if they have shoes on (this can go either way, though if they have no shoes on it usually doesn't warrant attention if they die).
    If they meet all three conditions RUN AWAY from wherever those people are - because bombs are en route.
     

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