Zone1 A question for Jews

[theHawk]

You wanted to know why Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah.

I gave you the answer.

Anything Christians, after Christianity was created, wrote is merely a copy of anything written in the Hebrew Scripture in order to justify Jesus as son of god and being the Messiah.

In Judaism, if one dies before freeing Israel and its people, then that person is not the Messiah.

Many Jews wanted to be it, during Roman and other invaders, but were not Exactly because they died before fulfilling what the Messiah must do.

Accept it or do not accept it, that is wha the Messiah was and is, Jesus included. Since he died not fulfilling the liberation of the land and its people, he was not the Messiah.

So if Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, why did God abandon the Temple and allow its destruction?

Plenty of times God let humans/Jews fail and sent them into exile, but he always came back and made a new covenant with them to give them another chance. Yet after 2,000 years no temple?

God previously allowed their destruction when they turned away from God, and become Babylon-like. You never thought to think why this happened at the exact time as Jesus?

 

[rylah]

I have to say, it’s surprising how some folks here make up stuff in order to discredit Jesus being the Messiah.

Some claim that the title “Son of Man”, which Jesus preferred to use himself, does not refer to being divine. That the prophecies foretold in books such as Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc were only referring to a normal human that would be a king.

Yet in the New Testament, at the trial of Jesus, the High Priests asked him:

"I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?" They answered and said, "He is deserving of death."

Now here the priest asks if he is “the Christ”, which is the Messiah, and adds “the Son of God”.

If the Messiah/Christ was to be a “regular human being” and not divine, why would the priest ask this?

Then when Jesus says he is, and they will see “the Son of Man” sitting at the right hand of the Power, coming on the clouds of heaven, the priest loses his shit and tears his own clothes off and cries blasphemy. Jesus was referencing Daniel, which some folks here claim was not a real prophet. But if that was true then why did the high priest scream blasphemy about its reference then? If Daniel was just some “story” based off some ancient poem, why would the high priest lose his mind and demand Jesus be put to death?

Daniel ch7:
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] comingwith the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.


I know reading New Testament is like burning your own eyeballs out for certain people, but can these Christ-deniers explain this paradox?

Try rational.

Did the 2000 years of Christianity fulfill any of the
conditions and objectives ascribed to the Messianic age?

The flourish of fruit in the land?
Ingathering of Israel?
Israeli sovereignty?
End of war?

All that happened in about 100 years...and in progress,
can't miss or mistake for a posterboy on the wall, excuse my Arabic.

 

[theHawk]

Hawk, you are a religious extremist. Own up to it.

Why wouldn’t I be an extremist when it comes to God?

What else is there to be an extremist on?

It‘s the non-religious, the ones who turn away from God that bring about ruin.
See my thread on that subject: Zone1 - Did Feminism bring about the downfall of humanity?

 

[theHawk]

Try rational.

Did the 2000 years of Christianity fulfill any of the
conditions and objectives ascribed to the Messianic age?

The flourish of fruit in the land?
Ingathering of Israel?
Israeli sovereignty?
End of war?

All that happened in about 100 years...
can't miss or mistake for a posterboy on the wall, excuse my Arabic.

Those will come in the Second Coming of Jesus. When we are all resurrected and non-believers will be judged. The ones saved will live in a new Eden, Heaven on Earth where there is no war or death, and all nations are gathered as one under Jesus.

That is far more likely to happen than thinking a normal human will accomplish these things.

 

[Sixties Fan]

So if Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, why did God abandon the Temple and allow its destruction?

Plenty of times God let humans/Jews fail and sent them into exile, but he always came back and made a new covenant with them to give them another chance. Yet after 2,000 years no temple?

God previously allowed their destruction when they turned away from God, and become Babylon-like. You never thought to think why this happened at the exact time as Jesus?

Why did the G-D of Abraham abandon the Jews when the Assyrians or the Babylonians, Greek or Romans invaded? Why this, why that?

That is part of Jewish history, and it happens with all people at one time or another.

Christians have nothing to do with Jewish history except attempting to change it for Christianity's sake. For the sake of Jesus returning.

Jesus was a man. ONLY a human being. He shall not return.

You asked one question and it was answered in full.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Those will come in the Second Coming of Jesus. When we are all resurrected and non-believers will be judged. The ones saved will live in a new Eden, Heaven on Earth where there is no war or death, and all nations are gathered as one under Jesus.

That is far more likely to happen than thinking a normal human will accomplish these things.

Ancient people needed to believe in some things in time of conquest and the horror those conquerors usually brought. Which is why so many cultures have so many myths of Demi gods, etc.

There is not going to be a new Eden, ONLY if all humans disappear. THAT was indeed Eden. No humans to mess the planet up.

 

[theHawk]

Why did the G-D of Abraham abandon the Jews when the Assyrians or the Babylonians, Greek or Romans invaded? Why this, why that?

If you don’t understand why God allowed these things, you aren’t a very good Jew.

The Jewish leaders and people by and large broke their covenant with God, started worshipping idols, marrying outside the tribe, and in some cases became war mongers. Basically they became like Babylon and rife with sin. God then allows their near total destruction in order to renew them, sort of like the original flood.

 

[alang1216]

So can you answer the question?

Is the Messiah going to be just a man, or also divine?

The Jews looked to powerful leaders like kings, prophets, and generals, as messiahs. They were never considered divine. David and Cyrus the Great were considered messiahs. Generally Jews didn't accept Jesus as he was not what they expected.

 

[theHawk]

Christians have nothing to do with Jewish history except attempting to change it for Christianity's sake. For the sake of Jesus returning

Wrong, Christianity is the fulfillment of the promise made to Jews, for a Messiah that will bring peace to all nations.

 

[theHawk]

The Jews looked to powerful leaders like kings, prophets, and generals, as messiahs. They were never considered divine. David and Cyrus the Great were considered messiahs. Generally Jews didn't accept Jesus as he was not what they expected.

Has it ever occurred to Jews that God was going to give them something more than “what they expected”? Plus you are forgetting that many Jews did follow Jesus.

 

[Sixties Fan]

If you don’t understand why God allowed these things, you aren’t a very good Jew.

The Jewish leaders and people by and large broke their covenant with God, started worshipping idols, marrying outside the tribe, and in some cases became war mongers. Basically they became like Babylon and rife with sin. God then allows their near total destruction in order to renew them, sort of like the original flood.

Mr. Christian, you have absolutely NOTHING to do with Jewish beliefs, culture or history.

NOTHING.

Christians have been changing Judaism to their liking and blaming Jews for the lack of Peace and the resurrection for 2000 years.

A Christian like yourself learns NOTHING on a daily basis as you are totally desperate, too desperate for the end of wars, etc. Just as all people were during the Roman conquest of Europe and Asia.

Jews an are not in the despair business and do not spread it to the whole world the way Christianity does. They follow their G-D on a daily basis. The one they have had now for about 3800 years. The same one which Jesus and all Jews at the time honored and followed.


Keep on attacking Jews for not believing in Jesus, because it will not change the facts of history or the fact the Jesus HIMSELF is not coming back to life to save this planet, the galaxy or the universe.

 

[rylah]

Those will come in the Second Coming of Jesus. When we are all resurrected and non-believers will be judged. The ones saved will live in a new Eden, Heaven on Earth where there is no war or death, and all nations are gathered as one under Jesus.

That is far more likely to happen than thinking a normal human will accomplish these things.

It's far more likely the text addresses a specific nation,
collectively fulfilling those objectives.

To say you are because you will,
when you're neither,
quiet the stretch.

And it is fulfilled by quiet the normal people,
extraordinary only in that they shouldn't
be able to naturally do all that.

 

[theHawk]

Mr. Christian, you have absolutely NOTHING to do with Jewish beliefs, culture or history.

NOTHING

Oh, so now YOU are telling me what my beliefs are??? That is rich!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Has it ever occurred to Jews that God was going to give them something more than “what they expected”? Plus you are forgetting that many Jews did follow Jesus.

They followed out of ignorance and because they were not as religious as they should have been. Still, the majority of Jews remained Jewish because they knew Judaism and respected it. They respected the idea of waiting for their Messiah who had come before, as in Babylonia and during the Maccabees.

You know nothing about Jewish history and beliefs, and do not give a darn to learn anything about it.


Am Israel Chai.

The People of Israel live.


And NO we are not going to convert to this make believe religion which only kills and kills and kills people out of pleasure, as it has done for the past 1700 years.

You are following a ROMAN Catholic Church which the Romans only too gladly took over after the Roman Empire fell. They put together those books, called the NT, not Jesus or anyone else with an actual knowledge of Judaism, but as something that had to be AGAINST Judaism.

 

[theHawk]

Christians have been changing Judaism to their liking and blaming Jews for the lack of Peace and the resurrection for 2000 years.

What have we “changed” in the Tanakh? Be specific.

Who said we blame Jews for “lack of peace” and “the resurrection”? I have never heard of this.

 

[theHawk]

A Christian like yourself learns NOTHING on a daily basis as you are totally desperate, too desperate for the end of wars, etc. Just as all people were during the Roman conquest of Europe and Asia

I am for “end wars”?
I am not the one cheerleading for WW3 with Russia. I am against the Ukraine War and our involvement in it. America is becoming Babylon with all of our immorality and wars.

 

[theHawk]

Keep on attacking Jews for not believing in Jesus

I am not “attacking Jews”, I am trying to understand how they come to their conclusions.

I am a very rational, logical thinking person. I do not make my decisions and beliefs based on emotions.

I have no reason to want Jews to go to hell, or any other people for that matter. In fact I would like to see the opposite happen.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Oh, so now YOU are telling me what my beliefs are??? That is rich!

Yes, and I will continue to do so since your thread is nothing but a bait to attack Jews.

You do not want to know from Jews what Jesus was, why he is discredited as a Messiah.

It has all been explained to you.


And here you are. You do not take a day, an hour, a second to think about it or even go do any research about it.


You are rich. In your Christianity. Stick to it.

 

[Arlette]

So can you answer the question?

Is the Messiah going to be just a man, or also divine?

Do you hear yourself?

 

[theHawk]

. They put together those books, called the NT, not Jesus or anyone else with an actual knowledge of Judaism,

The men that wrote the NT and put the NT together were very well versed in Judaism. Much more than modern Jews from what I can tell.


Modern Jews get their ideas from the Talmud, which was written up centuries after Jesus as a response to Christianity. The Jewish “leaders” at that time realized they needed to re-invent their religion, to make Jews disregard “problematic“ passages that obviously pointed to Jesus.