Zone1 A lot of people here suffer from CDS: Catholic Derangement Syndrome

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The False Hope of Purgatory​

by John MacArthur

Wednesday, July 13, 2022





This post was originally published in July 2018. –ed.
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.
The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them and—through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

 

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Refuting Purgatory​

March 10, 2014

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Author
Brian Smith

I have recently been discussing Catholic doctrine with a neighbor. Contrary to official Catholic teaching, my neighbor appears to believe that salvation is by grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone. I say appears because my neighbor still believes in purgatory.
As part of our discussion, my neighbor sent me an article authored by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers. His article, I was told, gives scriptural references to support the teaching of purgatory. After reading the article, I decided to respond with a refutation of purgatory. Since so many Christians have Catholic family and/or friends, I thought this refutation of the false doctrine of purgatory might be helpful.
First, as he does in his article, we need to see what the Catholic church officially, and “infallibly”, teaches about purgatory. (I say infallibly because the Catholic church teaches that anything the pope and magisterium teach regarding faith and morals is infallible. Since this teaching comes from their catechism, it is infallible according to the Catholic church and must be believed by the Catholic faithful.) From the Catholic catechism:

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory​

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.​

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:​

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.​

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:​

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.
​

Now, to make sure I don’t misinterpret what is meant above, here is how the author interprets this:

“This seems so simple. It’s common sense. Scripture is very clear when it says, "But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Hab. 1:13 says, "You [God]... are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong..." How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths? I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if, please God, we die in a state of grace.”
​

So, to summarize, according to the Catholic church, all who are not without sin at death must go to purgatory in order to become clean, that is, without sin, in order to enter heaven. That is the purpose of the “purifying fire”, from which they get the name purgatory.
Before addressing each argument he makes to support purgatory, let’s look at what Scripture says about the above official, “infallible” Catholic teaching. First and foremost, purgatory denies the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice. (Interestingly, the author mentions this in the article but then never gives any support as to why purgatory does not deny this sufficiency.) Purgatory teaches that when we die we still have sin that has not been forgiven, thus it must be “purged”. However, Scripture teaches just the opposite. In each passage, it is my emphasis added.

Hebrews 7: “23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.”
​

Hebrews 9: “11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”
​

Hebrews 10: “11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them,” He then says, 17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.”
​

1 Peter 3: “18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.”
​

Romans 6: “10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.”
​

John 13: “9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.” 10 Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.””​

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was a one time event, and through His sacrifice, He paid for the sins of His children once for all. If he paid this only once, and if it provided redemption for believers, then by definition, He paid for all of our sins, past, present and future. By His blood, Jesus has obtained for us eternal redemption. By faith in Him, we immediately have this eternal life, and we are clean, just as God’s holy word says. Indeed, God has said He will remember our sins no more; if He no longer remembers our sins, how is it we must be “purified” from them? The author also quotes Habakkuk, which says nothing unclean can enter heaven. Yet, Jesus tells us that if we are His, we are already clean (John 13:10). In addition, the author says almost no one will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our death. Hebrews 10:13, however, says, “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified," meaning all believers are perfectly sanctified.

Purgatory says the sins we die with must be paid for by the “purifying fire” of purgatory. Scripture, however, says that Christ’s death on the cross paid for our past, present and future sins. Likewise, Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the believer, so God sees us as He sees His Son, perfectly righteous. This is why we are perfected, and it is why God will remember our sins no more, since they have been punished on the cross. As the Scriptures above demonstrate, God’s word proves purgatory to be a false teaching. Even worse, it blasphemes the gospel of Christ by teaching that His sacrifice and imputed righteousness was not sufficient. Purgatory is part and parcel of the false gospel of Catholicism

Let’s now consider the arguments the author makes for purgatory.

Argument 1 for Purgatory​

He first turns to II Maccabees 12:39-46, which says:

“39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred in their ancestral tombs. 40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. 41They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. 43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind; 44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.”

​

IIMaccabees was never part of the Hebrew Scriptures, and is considered an “apocryphal” book, meaning it was never part of Holy Scripture. The original OT canon was Jewish, and contained the twenty two books (the same thirty nine in today’s Protestant Bible; some were combined as one). This canon was known as the Palestinian canon. When the Hebrew OT was translated into Greek (the Septuagint) in Alexandria, Egypt, included in the canon were fifteen books known as the Apocrypha. These were likely included due to the tradition of many churches viewing these books as “useful”, but not canonical (indeed, not all of these books were accepted by the Council of Trent, an “infallible” Catholic council). There are many good reasons why Christians reject the apocryphal books as being included in the OT canon. These include history and evidence from some of the books themselves. Specifically:

• No apocryphal books were written by a prophet. All of the OT Scriptures were written by prophets, while none of the apocryphal books were; therefore, the apocryphal books are not canonical. Scripture attests to this view in that the OT is referred to as the Scriptures of the prophets.
• The apocryphal books were not accepted by the Jews as part of the OT. If these books were part of the canonical OT, then surely Jesus would have criticized the Jews for excluding them from Scripture, yet He never does.
• Jesus and the apostles never quote from the apocryphal books. The OT testifies of Christ, and He gives testimony to the validity of the OT by quoting from many of its books. The apostles, likewise, quote from the OT. Yet they never quote from any of the apocryphal books.
• Many Jewish scholars and early church fathers rejected the apocryphal books as canonical. Jewish writers such as Philo and Josephus, and the rabbis at the Council of Jamnia all rejected the apocryphal books as canonical. Most of the early church also rejected them, including Origen, Athanasius, Hilary, Cyril, Epiphanius, Ruffinus, and Jerome. Interestingly, cardinal Cajetan, the man the Catholic church sent to debate Luther, also rejected these books as canonical.
• Some apocryphal books contain many historical and geographical inaccuracies. The Bible does not contain such inaccuracies. These errors prove the books that contain them are non-canonical.
• Some apocryphal books contradict Scripture.
• The apocryphal books were never accepted as canonical by the church until the Council of Trent. Roughly 1,500 years after these books were written, the Catholic church decided to “officially” recognize the apocrypha as Scripture. These books were not accepted as canonical Scripture by either the Jews or the early Christian church.
• No apocryphal book makes the claim that it is the word of God. While most OT books do claim to be God’s word, none of the apocrypha claim this status.

Furthermore, there are several problems in the Maccabees text itself. First, the passage acknowledges that the men were killed by God for idolatry (v. 40). Thus, they died in their idolatry, and Scripture says this of idolaters: “9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6) In addition, Scripture makes clear that there is no “second chance” once a person dies. Hebrews 9:27 says, “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.”
The passage goes on to say that the Jews took up a collection for an “expiatory sacrifice” for the idolaters. Yet, Scripture says, “No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him—8 For the redemption of his soul is costly.” (Psalm 49) Furthermore, Hebrews 10:4 says, “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.” This contradicts v. 46 in the Maccabees passage. Finally, the passage contradicts itself. Verse 45 says there is a reward for those who have gone to rest in “godliness”. Yet, v. 40 says they died as idolaters, meaning they died in ungodliness.
As if acknowledging that II Maccabees is not God’s word, the author says this: “Rejecting the inspiration and canonicity of II Maccabees does not negate its historical value. Maccabees aids us in knowing, purely from an historical perspective at the very least, the Jews believed in praying and making atonement for the dead shortly before the advent of Christ. This is the faith in which Jesus and the apostles were raised.” (emphasis in original) So, here the author is making two absurd assumptions. First, he assumes that what the Jews believed and practiced at the time of Christ was correct. Second, he implies that Jesus and the apostles agreed with such practices since this is the faith in which they were raised.
To show just how absurd his reasoning is, let’s extend his logic to other practices of the Jews and see if Jesus approved. First, the Jews practiced what they called “Corban”. We find this in Mark 7: “9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”” Clearly, Jesus did not approve of everything the Jews practiced, especially those that contradicted the word of God. Since we have seen that what these Jews did in Maccabees also contradicted God’s word, it would be impossible that Jesus would have approved or believed in such things.
As demonstrated above, it’s obvious why II Maccabees was not included in Scripture. The text contradicts God’s word as well as itself. Therefore, this passage cannot be used to support purgatory.

Argument 2 for Purgatory​

Next, the author turns to Matthew 12: “31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” (emphasis added) The argument here is that Jesus implies that sins can be forgiven in the age to come, that is, after death. Thus, he says this supports the view of purgatory.
From a purely logical perspective, this passage can mean at least two things. First, it could mean what this author suggests, that people can be forgiven after death. Second, it could mean that Jesus is simply emphasizing that blasphemy against the Spirit will never be forgiven, using the “age to come” for emphasis.
How do we know which one? If we find Scripture that does not support the author’s view, we have to reject it, and indeed we do. As mentioned above, Hebrews 9:27 says, “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” If judgment comes after death, then it is logically not possible that a person could be forgiven after death.
Furthermore, this passage does not support purgatory based on the very logic of Catholic teaching. According to the Catholic church, purgatory does not “forgive” sins, of which Matthew 12 speaks. Rather, in their own words, purgatory “purifies” “lesser faults”. Their own teaching says nothing about sins being forgiven in purgatory; instead, the person must atone for these sins via the purifying fire of purgatory. If they were forgiven, there would be no need to atone for anything. Thus, Catholicism’s own teaching refutes purgatory.
Therefore, this argument does not support purgatory.

Argument 3 for Purgatory​

The author next cites Matthew 5 as evidence for purgatory: “25 Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.” He goes on to state that the word for prison is the Greek word phulake, which he says is used in 1 Peter 3 as a temporary holding place, which he says gives further support for his argument. What he does not say is that phulake is also used for the word “prison” throughout the New Testament, so there’s nothing special about how it’s used in 1 Peter 3.
So, is Jesus referring to purgatory here? As demonstrated above, Christ has paid for all of our sins, once for all, and God will remember our sins no more. Therefore, this can’t mean purgatory. In this passage, Christ is simply emphasizing that a sinner will never be let out of prison since he cannot pay for his sins because he lacks the ability to pay, namely, the sinlessness of Christ. What Jesus is saying, then, is that those who are guilty (everyone) should settle his sin before he gets to the judge. The only way to settle our sin is by believing in Jesus. The judge here is God, who will punish with an eternal death in hell all who have not settled their sins by faith in Christ, a punishment from which there is no “repayment.
John Calvin wrote about this passage (you have to love his sarcasm):

“But it is highly ridiculous in the Papists, to construct their purgatory out of a continued allegory on this passage. Nothing is more evident than that the subject of Christ's discourse is the cultivation of friendship among men. They have no shame, or conscientious scruple, to pervert his words, and to torture them into a widely different meaning, provided they can impose on the unlearned. But as they do not deserve a lengthened refutation, I shall only point out, in a single word, their shameful ignorance. The adversary is supposed by them to be the devil. But Christ enjoins those who believe on him to be agreed with the adversary. Therefore, in order that the Papists may find their purgatory here, they must first become the friends and brethren of devils. A farthing is well known to be the fourth part of a penny: but here, as is evident from Luke, it denotes a mite, or any small piece of money. Now, if we were disposed to caviling [irritating or annoying objection], we might here obtain another exposure of the absurdity of the Papists. For, if he who has once entered Purgatory will never leave it, till he has paid the last farthing, it follows, that the suffrages (as they call them) of the living for the dead are of no avail. For Christ makes no allowance, that others may free a debtor by satisfying for him, but expressly demands from each person the payment of what he owes. Now, if Moses and other satisfactions are useless, however warm the fire of Purgatory may be, yet the kitchens of priests and monks, for the sake of which they are so anxious to maintain it, will be cool enough.”​

Therefore, this argument does not support purgatory.

Argument 4 for Purgatory​

Finally, in his last argument, the author brings up the classic Catholic passage in support of purgatory, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:

“10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”
​

It’s useful here to go back to the “infallible” definition of purgatory. It says, “As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.” In the passage above, v. 14 says a person will receive a reward. The fire here is solely to reveal each person’s works. Yet, purgatory is supposed to be for those who need their sins (“certain lesser faults”) purified by fire. How is it they receive a reward? Indeed, the definition of purgatory makes no mention of receiving a reward, as it is not even about rewards.
This passage, however, is speaking solely about the rewards to which a Christian can look forward in heaven. In fact, this is even mentioned in the verses immediately preceding this passage: “8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.” Thus, it’s clear that Paul is speaking solely about rewards in the verses that follow.
The quality of our works will be tested as though by fire. Those works done with the right motivation for the glory of God, and in the power of the Spirit will survive, just as gold, silver and precious stones would survive a fire. For these works, we receive a reward. Our works done out of a selfish motivation and not for God’s glory will not survive the testing fire. As a result, we will suffer loss in that we will receive no reward. Importantly, notice the text says we will be saved even if we have no works worthy of a reward. Clearly, then, this passage says nothing about purifying our sins.
A related passage is in 1 Peter 1: “6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, 7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
Notice that God gives us trials in order to demonstrate the proof of our faith. This will produce works that, when tested by fire, will survive, so much so that when our Lord comes He will give us praise for these works.
The fire in this passage reveals the quality of the believers’ works; some are burned up, while others pass the test for a reward. The fire of purgatory is to purify a person’s sins; if this passage supported purgatory, it would speak of a fire that purifies the gold, wood, hay, etc. Therefore, this argument does not support purgatory.
The doctrine of purgatory begs the question: if God intended for us to believe in purgatory, why would He cloak this teaching in such veiled verses as this author suggests? Why would He not simply explain it as the Catholic church has in the catechism above? The obvious answer is that purgatory is a false doctrine.
As part of the Catholic gospel, purgatory is anything but good news. Scripture says the gospel is good news because Christ has paid for every sin we have committed or will commit, and because we are declared righteous in God’s eyes because He has credited Jesus’ righteousness to us. I hope you can share this good news with your Catholic family and friends, and explain to them why purgatory is a false gospel. Just as He has done for us, may He lead them out of darkness and into His marvelous light (1 Peter 2:9).

 

[ninja007]

Why Purgatory Is a Dangerous Doctrine​

By Dan Delzell, Christian Post Contributor Tuesday, November 21, 2017

Some people are taught to deal with their guilt by placing confidence in the doctrine of "purgatory." I suppose you could compare it to a student working on a project to gain "extra credit" to make up for some bad grades. Unfortunately, the doctrine of purgatory provides false hope because it is based not in fact, but in fantasy. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," and is for those who are said to be going to heaven but are nevertheless "still imperfectly purified." (CCC 1030) According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, purgatory is "a place or condition of temporal punishment" for a Christian after death. The punishment and purification process in purgatory is said to "purge" away certain sins that still require cleansing.

So what's the problem with this theory? Well, the problem is that this doctrine is not rooted in Scripture. And on top of that, it invites sinners to assume the blood of Jesus and the cross of Christ are not enough to make a believer completely holy in God's sight. Man needs "more" purification, or so goes the misguided line of reasoning.

In reality, every believer is already completely holy in God's sight as a result of the Savior's sacrifice on the cross 2000 years ago. This complete cleansing flows from the miracle of the cross. (1 Peter 2:24,25) Thankfully, every Christian is already "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms." (Eph. 2:6) The complete purification of a sinner's soul occurs the moment the new birth takes place (John 3:6,7) in a person's heart through faith in Christ. (John 1:12; John 3:16)

"We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Hebrews 10:10)

This astounding declaration is not man's opinion. It is God's Word on the matter, period.


Now either the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross has the power to make a believer completely holy in God's sight, or it doesn't. And if it does, then who do you suppose would be interested in trying to water down the biblical doctrine of justification through faith? (Gal. 2:16) Does that sound like something God would do, or is the doctrine of purgatory more in line with doctrines the devil would likely spout?

Since Satan is "the father of lies," (John 8:44) our invisible adversary tells unbelievers: "You're good enough to get into heaven by your sincerity and your morality." Meanwhile, he uses a different line of deception when accusing believers: "You're not pure enough! You know you're a terrible person. And you call yourself a Christian...ha...what a joke!"

The devil hopes to take our eyes off Jesus and the cross where our redemption was earned "once for all." (Romans 6:10) If the prince of darkness can't convince you to reject the cross, his minions work overtime trying to get you to "add to the cross." Satan knows that when it comes to a person's approach to salvation, "Jesus plus something equals nothing." Adding to the cross is just as deadly as rejecting the cross, and no one knows this fact better than the devil himself.

Remember, Satan is an individual angel who has been manipulating a team of evil angels (demons) for thousands of years. And so he has had plenty of time to refine his craft. The devil doesn't want you to know the truth, whether you are a believer or an unbeliever. Either way, Lucifer's bag of tricks and seductive lies are lined up and always ready to be unleashed at a moment's notice.

No wonder Scripture warns believers to beware of demonic doctrines.

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons....they forbid people to marry, etc." (1 Timothy 4:1,3) And of all the dangerous doctrines that have been conjured up over the centuries, the doctrine of purgatory is a real doozy!

The Holy Spirit certainly did not invent the doctrine of purgatory. The third Person of the Trinity will never guide you to add something to the cross in your quest to be completely purified.

The reality for the believer is that "the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7) so that we are now "holy in God's sight, without blemish and free from accusation." (Colossians 1:22) This is the case regardless of a believer's religious label, be it "Catholic," "Protestant," or something else.

Everyone who has been converted through faith in Jesus is instantly forgiven, saved, justified, born again, and redeemed on the front end of their relationship with God. The miracle of conversion is available to man because of the perfection of Christ's sacrifice 2000 years ago, as well as the power of Christ's holy blood that was shed on the cross for our sins.

Believers don't need any "more" purification in order to be holy in God's sight. And the idea that man could somehow be punished or purified in purgatory as a way of preparing his soul for heaven is foreign to the Bible. In fact, this doctrine stands opposed to the teaching of the Gospel and to the biblical message of grace.

Here is a helpful acronym to remember the meaning of G-R-A-C-E: "God's Riches at Christ's Expense."

The doctrine of purgatory, on the other hand, could be summed up this way: S-P-A-C-E, or "Special Punishment a Christian Earns."

GRACE or SPACE? Which approach will you rely upon for complete purification before God? Christ being punished unto death in your place, or you being punished after death to merit some extra purification for your sins?

The Bible provides us with the only way a sinner is purified before Almighty God: "By one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." (Hebrews 10:14) Could it be any clearer?

The focus in the New Testament is always on the punishment Jesus endured for our sins, and not on some supposed punishment a Christian receives in "purgatory." Such a diabolical doctrine strips the cross of Christ of its glory, while ignoring the full atoning power of the Savior's blood to completely wash away the sins of a believer.

Isaiah prophesied 700 years before Christ's crucifixion, "The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him." (Isaiah 53:5) Rather than giving us the punishment we deserve, God took the punishment upon Himself in order to redeem us from sin, death, and the devil.

And so today, you either have complete forgiveness through Christ alone, or no forgiveness whatsoever. The forgiveness of sins is not given out in parts. Every converted person is purified completely today; right now; prior to their death. If you are waiting until after you die to have all your sins washed away, you will be waiting a very long time to say the least.

Purgatory is nothing more than a seductive and deceptive myth. If truth be told, this doctrine is "all talk" and "no action," no cleansing, and no purging away of sins.

And where does that leave a person who has gone to their grave while relying upon the false promises of purgatory? When it comes to life, death, and eternity, there are no do-overs.

"It is appointed unto men once to die, and after that the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27)

Aside from Scripture, we wouldn't know what happens to a soul the moment a person dies. Only God's Word correctly informs our mind and our conscience on such lofty matters.

One biblical passage that has been used in attempting to defend the doctrine of purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. But those who do so misinterpret the true meaning of this text. I wrote about the real meaning of this passage in an article entitled, "The Biblical Distinction Between 'Gift' and 'Reward."

At the end of time, a believer's works will indeed be tested with fire to see if the works were done with the right motives. That is to say, were they done by someone trying to shine the light and focus on himself; or instead, trying to shine the light on Christ and keep the focus on the Savior?

Regarding the works of a believer on that day..."his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (1 Cor. 3:13-15)

Did you catch that? It describes the man who gets into heaven because he received the free gift of eternal life, and so he was saved; and yet, he "suffers loss" of certain rewards that he would have received if his motives had been different in his service for Christ. He will still of course enjoy a fantastic life in heaven forever, and he will not be even slightly jealous in heaven of anyone's else reward. (Jealousy and the like are only found on earth, and not in heaven.) Before the believer enters heaven, however, the work he completed on earth will be tested with fire to see how much of it was noble, selfless, and Christ-centered.

This testing is very different than the false doctrine of purgatory.

Eternal life in heaven is a free gift and cannot be merited by man's efforts, either in this life, or in the fictional realm of "purgatory." Rewards, on the other hand, are taught in Scripture as a way God has chosen to bless His children for their works on earth. But if you are not in the family of God through faith in Christ, then the promise of heavenly rewards does not apply to you. It only applies to God's children.

The apostle Paul wrote these words to believers reminding them of the way they entered God's eternal family: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)

Once the gift is received through faith, salvation is secure. There is no need for any further purification in order to be justified before God. And this explains why the theory of purgatory is so dangerous. Purgatory is a pernicious man-made doctrine that contradicts Scripture and opposes the cross of Christ.

There is nothing man can do to add to what Christ accomplished on the cross. Any attempt to add to the Savior's sacrifice is doomed to fail, and will lead a person to place a measure of faith in something other than the finished work of Christ on the cross.

When those in Galatia were being goaded by the Judaizers to add circumcision to the basis of their eternal hope of salvation, Paul warned them sternly: "That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 'A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.'" (Gal. 5:8,9)

In other words, the moment you attempt to add something to Christ's sacrifice on the cross as the basis of your justification before God, you are on the verge of losing everything.

Paul went so far as to inform the folks in Galatia: "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Gal. 5:4)

And so the bottom line is this: What am I relying upon in order to be pure in God's eyes? Am I trusting Christ alone and the blood He shed on the cross for my sins? Or am I planning to bear some punishment myself after I die in order to be "purified" to the point of complete perfection?

If so, be careful what you wish for. Those who are determined to receive punishment for their sins should realize that the only people who are punished after death are those who will be punished in hell forever. (Matthew 25:41)

And I know you don't want to receive eternal punishment, correct? So don't dabble with the diabolical doctrine that spews forth the following concept: "A little bit of punishment after death is good for the soul." Yeah right. Don't believe it for a second.

Amidst all of its rotten fruit, perhaps the most offensive aspect of this dangerous doctrine is simply this: The teaching of purgatory is a slap in the Savior's face because it proudly proclaims to do something that only the blood of Jesus has the power to accomplish. (Revelation 1:5)

 

[ninja007]

Does the Roman Catholic Church teach a false gospel?​

by Matt Slick | Feb 9, 2020 | Roman Catholicism, World Religions
CARM maintains that the Roman Catholic Church teaches a false gospel, and therefore, it is a false church. In order to support my case, I will present what the Bible says is necessary for the forgiveness of our sins. I will then display what the Roman Catholic Church says. You will see a stark contrast between the two.
First of all, the gospel is what saves us from our sins. It is as follows.

• 1 Corinthians 15:1–4, “Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”

The Roman Catholics will affirm the Scriptures. At this point, they might say that they believe the gospel. But, Biblical revelation doesn’t stop at this point. There are other things revealed in the New Testament about how our sins are forgiven. Let’s take a look at the Scriptures.

• Rom. 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
• Romans 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.”
• Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.”
• Gal. 5:4, “You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
• Titus 3:5, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.”

The gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Christ. This needs to be preached. It was Jesus who fulfilled the Law perfectly (1 Pet. 2:22) and bore our sin in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). He did everything necessary for us to receive forgiveness of sins by fulfilling the Law and shedding His blood on the cross. Therefore we are justified by faith alone (Rom. 3:28; 4:5). Also, Paul, the apostle, teaches us that anyone who seeks to be justified by the Law has fallen from grace (Gal. 5:4). The context of his statement was dealing with circumcision (Gal. 5:1-3). In other words, those who are seeking to be justified by doing one thing, circumcision, could not be saved because they were adding their works to Christ’s work. This is why Paul says in Galatians 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Likewise, James says, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all,” (James 2:10).

What does the Catholic Church teach about forgiveness of sins?​

The following list of quotes is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the CCC. The CCC is an official Catholic document. I have underlined those parts of the quotes and then summarized what the Roman Catholic Church says is necessary for salvation.

• “…so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments,” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2068).
• “The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 2036).
• The Decalogue [Ten Commandments] contains a privileged expression of the natural law…” (CCC 2070).
• “The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 1257).
• “Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 846).
• “This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn,” (CCC 980).
• “The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation, (CCC 1129).
• “Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation,” (CCC 1816).
• “Detachment from riches is necessary for entering the Kingdom of heaven,” (CCC 2556).

As you can see, according to Catholicism, there a lot of things you must do to be forgiven of your sins. In summary, that which is necessary for salvation includes the church (CCC 846), baptism (CCC 1257), penance (CCC 980), sacraments (CCC 1129), service and witness to the faith (CCC 1816), keeping the ten commandments (CCC 2036 and 2070), and detachment from riches (CCC 2556).

Conclusion​

The Roman Catholic Church adds works to salvation. It denies that we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone. It adds sacraments (CCC 1129), baptism (CCC 1257), penance (CCC 980), and the works of the Law (commandments) as necessary for salvation (CCC 2068, 2036, 2070). The Bible teaches that keeping the commandments is not necessary for salvation (Romans 3:28, 4:5, Gal. 2:16, 21) and is to be avoided (Gal. 5:1-5). Otherwise, what Paul says in Romans 4:5 wouldn’t be true, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.”
The Roman Catholic Church preaches a false gospel.

 

[Dadoalex]

Yep, true story.

There's something about Catholicism that drives some anti-Catholic Protestant zealots to... loony tunes.

I mean, one anti-Catholic poster here comes to mind, but will remain un-named, but really they all say about the same thing... over and over and over ad nauseum, in fact

It's always: You Catholics worship Mary, not Jesus! (Who knew??)
and stuff like: You follow the pope instead of Jesus! (Who knew??)
and: You make up stuff that can't be found ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Then when you show them that Scriptures actually DO exist that support Catholic beliefs, like Mt 18:23 re Purgatory and etc,

What do we get in response

crickets

The symbol of Catholicism is a man being tortured to death.

What more needs be said?

 

[Dadoalex]

says the one who has not spend time in the Real Presence

...

Did you take pictures?
No? Why not?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Yep, true story.

There's something about Catholicism that drives some anti-Catholic Protestant zealots to... loony tunes.

I mean, one anti-Catholic poster here comes to mind, but will remain un-named, but really they all say about the same thing... over and over and over ad nauseum, in fact

It's always: You Catholics worship Mary, not Jesus! (Who knew??)
and stuff like: You follow the pope instead of Jesus! (Who knew??)
and: You make up stuff that can't be found ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Then when you show them that Scriptures actually DO exist that support Catholic beliefs, like Mt 18:23 re Purgatory and etc,

What do we get in response

crickets

/-----/ I'm Catholic and grew up in the Bible Belt which was controlled by Bob Jones University. You speak the truth. BJU students would come over and spit on the front steps of our church. We were called Papists; we worshipped statutes, and they would hang out by our Catholic School and mock us by making the sign of the cross real fast and backwards.
In the 1940s and 50s, my father had a hard time finding work because many businesses would call your pastor to see if you were a good Christian and attended services regularly. If he mentioned he attended St Mary's, they'd say, Sorry, not hiring today.
It was a bit better for me in the 1960s, but I went to a public high school because there wasn't a Catholic one. Many girls wouldn't date me because I "wasn't Christian enough."
As soon as I could, I moved to Long Island where there were wall to wall Catholic girls, and married one.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

/-----/ I'm Catholic and grew up in the Bible Belt which was controlled by Bob Jones University. You speak the truth. BJU students would come over and spit on the front steps of our church. We were called Papists; we worshipped statutes, and they would hang out by our Catholic School and mock us by making the sign of the cross real fast and backwards.
In the 1940s and 50s, my father had a hard time finding work because many businesses would call your pastor to see if you were a good Christian and attended services regularly. If he mentioned he attended St Mary's, they'd say, Sorry, not hiring today.
It was a bit better for me in the 1960s, but I went to a public high school because there wasn't a Catholic one. Many girls wouldn't date me because I "wasn't Christian enough."
As soon as I could, I moved to Long Island where there were wall to wall Catholic girls, and married one.

.

God Bless you!

There sure are some ignorant pseudo-Christians out there.

.

 

[sparky]

Then when you show them that Scriptures actually DO exist that support Catholic beliefs, like Mt 18:23 re Purgatory and etc,

What do we get in response

crickets

Fundies simply refuse the answers

Fundamentalism is not Christianity , fact is it's probably the furthest thing from God

The first thing us recovering Christians do, is come to terms with things celestial are translated to the terrestrial realm with extreme bias

Spirituality being light and love ,devolves into religious darkness, hate and fear

Subsequently subscribing to that no loving deity would

~S~

 

[1miseryindex]

.

Nor is it just clergy, not by a long shot.

In fact, far more of the pervs are "teachers".

But you leftists don't like to talk about that.





.

not to mention that most pedophiles are NOT celibate or supposedly celibate priests or other clergy

No, most pedos are

MARRIED

 

[1miseryindex]

Fundies simply refuse the answers

Fundamentalism is not Christianity , fact is it's probably the furthest thing from God

The first thing us recovering Christians do, is come to terms with things celestial are translated to the terrestrial realm with extreme bias

well, again, you disbelieve that God could and DID protect his Word from one generation of sinners to another.

What kind of a God would have rules and laws but not TELL people what the rules and laws are, still expecting them to adhere to them on pain of eternal punishment (Mt 25:31-46)?!

What God, knowing how corrupt humans are, would entrust His Word, His saving Word to those who are sold out to sin and the things of this world?

Not the God I believe in

 

[TheParser]

(1) I am old enough (86) to remember when The Church was a power in this land.

(2) In the 1930s, for example, The Church was instrumental in censoring motion pictures.

(3) For much of the 20th century, those priests who had intimate relations with underaged persons were seldom prosecuted.

a. Of course, I will not name him, but there is enough proof (in some people's minds) that a certain cardinal (perhaps the most powerful American cardinal) in the 1940s enjoyed intimate relations with young gentlemen. Yet in public he constantly railed against obscenity in movies!

(4) Today, however, The Church is basically just one declining denomination among many other declining denominations.

(5) So there is no need to "dislike" The Church.

(Personally, if I were to choose a denomination, I would choose the Roman Catholic Church. Its rituals are very comforting: the mass, saints, angels, purgatory, etc.)

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

(1) I am old enough (86) to remember when The Church was a power in this land.

(2) In the 1930s, for example, The Church was instrumental in censoring motion pictures.

(3) For much of the 20th century, those priests who had intimate relations with underaged persons were seldom prosecuted.

a. Of course, I will not name him, but there is enough proof (in some people's minds) that a certain cardinal (perhaps the most powerful American cardinal) in the 1940s enjoyed intimate relations with young gentlemen. Yet in public he constantly railed against obscenity in movies!

(4) Today, however, The Church is basically just one declining denomination among many other declining denominations.

(5) So there is no need to "dislike" The Church.

.

Except their slave masters tell them they must hate Christ, Christianity and Catholicism, nonetheless.

And they are far too indoctrinated to argue.

.

 

[1miseryindex]

The symbol of Catholicism is a man being tortured to death.

What more needs be said?

All humans are tortured

by sin

and some are tortured this way until death because they don't repent

 

[1miseryindex]

(1) I am old enough (86) to remember when The Church was a power in this land.

(2) In the 1930s, for example, The Church was instrumental in censoring motion pictures.

(3) For much of the 20th century, those priests who had intimate relations with underaged persons were seldom prosecuted.

a. Of course, I will not name him, but there is enough proof (in some people's minds) that a certain cardinal (perhaps the most powerful American cardinal) in the 1940s enjoyed intimate relations with young gentlemen. Yet in public he constantly railed against obscenity in movies!

(4) Today, however, The Church is basically just one declining denomination among many other declining denominations.

(5) So there is no need to "dislike" The Church.

(Personally, if I were to choose a denomination, I would choose the Roman Catholic Church. Its rituals are very comforting: the mass, saints, angels, purgatory, etc.)

more "I don't know a thing about Catholicism but will pretend I do"

BS

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

All humans are tortured

by sin

and some are tortured this way until death because they don't repent

.

And the point here is that Christ CHOSE to accept his so-called torture.

.

 

[1miseryindex]

.

And the point here is that Christ CHOSE to accept his so-called torture.

.

Yes, and this is why we must also accept the torture that comes with following Christ. It is no great mystery why he called it the narrow way and said that FEW find that Way.

I see an awful lot of OBSTINANCY on this forum... People just absolutely REFUSE to listen to ANY spiritual truths that don't comport with their prejudicial, already-chosen religious beliefs.

I don't know... hate to bring up this term but ... Well, Jesus brought up so I will also:

blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

In other parts of t he Bible we are told: Woe unto them who call Good evil and evil Good (which is what is happening in that scenario in the Book of Mark when Jesus began speaking on the unforgivable sin)

 

[sparky]

What God, knowing how corrupt humans are, would entrust His Word, His saving Word to those who are sold out to sin and the things of this world?

Not the God I believe in

You're describing free will , which allowed His word to be compromised you religious hierarchy Misery

~S~

 

[1miseryindex]

You're describing free will , which allowed His word to be compromised you religious hierarchy Misery

~S~

You should re-word this because I don't u/stand the last part... looks like a typo

 

[sparky]

You should re-word this because I don't u/stand the last part... looks like a typo

ok

would you rather i use collude vs compromise ?

~S~