9/11: What really happened on that day?

[irosie91]

globalresearch is not a valid source------anyone interested----
GOOGLE that idiot site

 

[SAYIT]

All the facts are out about what happened on 9/11. No cover ups or conspiracies in that regard.

What draws you to that conclusion?

Well, for 1 thing we live in the instant-info age. Nothing that floats into anyone's mind these days isn't uploaded and spread within minutes. Hell, 9/11 CT books hit Amazon before the Tower's dust had settled yet nothing of real value has come from any "Truther's" lips (or books).

For another, the size and complexity of even the most Spartan 9/11 CTs would have required thousands of co-conspirators and thousands more who would have seen the unusual activities during prep, commission, and cover-up. Not one has come forward with anything but foil-hat speculation.

Last but not least it has been over 15 years and you and your "Truther" Movement are still regurgitating the same, old, fully debunked BS from 10 years ago and when your silliness is refuted by someone with the patience of Job, you simply pull out another of your theories (or on another thread) and pop up in another hole. Kinda like this:

 

[phoenyx]

Thousands? The only official investigation that I'm aware of to even attempt to cover all of what happened on 9/11 was the 9/11 Commission. It was composed of 11 Commissioners and a few staff members:
9/11 Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A little history on said commission:
**
Work of commissioners after the commission ceased its functions
Months after the commission had officially issued its report and ceased its functions, Chairman Kean and other commissioners toured the country to draw attention to the recommendations of the commission for reducing the terror risk, claiming that some of their recommendations were being ignored. Co-chairs Kean and Hamilton wrote a book about the constraints they faced as commissioners titled Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission.

The book was released on August 15, 2006 and chronicles the work of Kean (Commission Chairman) and Hamilton (Commission Vice-Chairman) of the 9/11 Commission. In the book, Kean and Hamilton charge that the 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail," and write that the commission was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by officials from The Pentagon and the Federal Aviation Administration during the investigation that it considered a separate investigation into possible obstruction of justice by Pentagon and FAA officials.[22]**

Source: 9/11 Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In order for your theory of the Pentagon crash to be true, either all those who worked in the Pentagon, who investigated the accident and were friends and coworkers of those who died would have to be completely stupid or part of the conspiracy.

That statement is wrong on so many different levels. Have you ever heard of a woman named Sibel Edmonds?

Dude, that's the commission.

Indeed.

There were thousands of investigators from various agencies, both public and private (airlines, pilot union, NATCA, etc), involved in the investigation, the clean-up and the aftermath.

Thousands of investigators from various agencies? So far, we have the 9/11 Commission, which has 11 Commissioners, as well as perhaps 80 staff members, the most important member being Philip Zelikow, the Executive Director. Here's an interesting bit of information you may not have known about:

**9/11 Commission Executive Director Philip Zelikow and Ernest May, a long-time associate of Zelikow and consultant to the commission, complete an outline of the commission’s final report, although the commission has barely began its work and will not report for another 16 months. The outline is detailed and contains chapter headings, subheadings, and sub-subheadings. The outline anticipates a 16-chapter report (note: the final report only has 13) that starts with a history of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden’s 1998 fatwa against the US. There will then be chapters on US counterterrorism policy, threat reporting leading up to 9/11, and the attacks themselves will be in chapter seven (in the final report, the day of 9/11 chapter is moved to the start).
"Blinding Effects of Hindsight" - Zelikow and May even have a chapter ten entitled “Problems of Foresight—And Hindsight,” with a sub-chapter on “the blinding effects of hindsight,” (actually chapter 11 in the final report, slightly renamed “Foresight—And Hindsight;” the “blinding effects” sub-heading does not appear in the final version, but the chapter starts with a meditation on the value of hindsight).
Kept Secret - Zelikow shows the report to Commission Chairman Tom Kean and Vice-chairman Lee Hamilton and they like it, but think it could be seen as evidence that they have pre-determined the outcome. Therefore, they all decide it should be kept secret from the commission’s staff. According to May it is “treated as if it were the most classified document the commission possessed.” Zelikow comes up with his own internal classification system, labeling it “Commission Sensitive,” a phrase that appears on the top and bottom of each page.
Staff Alarmed - When the staff find out about it and are given copies over a year later, they are alarmed. They realize that the sections of the report about the Bush administration’s failings will be in the middle of the report, and the reader will have to wade past chapters on al-Qaeda’s history to get to them. Author Philip Shenon will comment: “Many assumed the worst when they saw that Zelikow had proposed a portion of the report entitled ‘The Blinding Effects of Hindsight.’ What ‘blinding hindsight’? They assumed Zelikow was trying to dismiss the value of hindsight regarding the Bush administration’s pre-9/11 performance.” In addition, some staffers begin circulating a parody entitled “The Warren Commission Report—Preemptive Outline.” One of the parody’s chapter headings is “Single Bullet: We Haven’t Seen the Evidence Yet. But Really. We’re Sure.” [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004; SHENON, 2008, PP. 388-389]**

Source: Complete 911 Timeline: Role of Philip Zelikow

 

[phoenyx]

All the facts are out about what happened on 9/11. No cover ups or conspiracies in that regard.

What draws you to that conclusion?

Well, for 1 thing we live in the instant-info age. Nothing that floats into anyone's mind these days isn't uploaded and spread within minutes.

The fact that people can publish pretty much whatever "floats" into their minds is not evidence that the official story is true.

Hell, 9/11 CT books hit Amazon before the Tower's dust had settled yet nothing of real value has come from any "Truther's" lips (or books).

Have you actually -read- any books from those who doubt if not disbelieve the official story?

 

[SAYIT]

...The only official investigation that I'm aware of to even attempt to cover all of what happened on 9/11 was the 9/11 Commission. It was composed of 11 Commissioners and a few staff members:..

That's camel crap. The NIST employed a number of independent, non-governmental expert agencies to investigate and determine the nature and cause of the damage from the 9/11 terror attack on US targets. The American Society of Engineers was just one.

...Even NIST couldn't support The American Society of Engineer's "Pancake Theory"; all the evidence demonstrated the buildings simply couldn't collapse in that manner...

So you are saying the ASE was incompetent or that they are in on the conspiracy and if that were true wouldn't the NIST simply rubber stamp ASE's findings?

The bottom line remains your claim that only "11 Commissioners and a few staff members" conducted the 9/11 investigation is - like pretty much everything you post - absolute BS.

All the facts are out about what happened on 9/11. No cover ups or conspiracies in that regard.

What draws you to that conclusion?

Well, for 1 thing we live in the instant-info age. Nothing that floats into anyone's mind these days isn't uploaded and spread within minutes.

The fact that people can publish pretty much whatever "floats" into their minds is not evidence that the official story is true.

No but it does cause rational people to apply the same measure of skepticism to what they find on the Internet that they do to the official findings. In fact, given the creds and reputations of the non-gov't agencies that investigated 9/11, I'd say extra skepticism should be heaped on the "findings" of those in it for fame, fortune and book tours. That you find GlobalResearch to be a credible source says all one needs to know about you.

 

[Divine Wind]

....Thousands of investigators from various agencies? So far, we have the 9/11 Commission, which has 11 Commissioners, as well as perhaps 80 staff members, the most important member being Philip Zelikow, the Executive Director. Here's an interesting bit of information you may not have known about:

**9/11 Commission Executive Director Philip Zelikow and Ernest May, a long-time associate of Zelikow and consultant to the commission, complete an outline of the commission’s final report, although the commission has barely began its work and will not report for another 16 months. The outline is detailed and contains chapter headings, subheadings, and sub-subheadings. The outline anticipates a 16-chapter report (note: the final report only has 13) that starts with a history of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden’s 1998 fatwa against the US. There will then be chapters on US counterterrorism policy, threat reporting leading up to 9/11, and the attacks themselves will be in chapter seven (in the final report, the day of 9/11 chapter is moved to the start).
"Blinding Effects of Hindsight" - Zelikow and May even have a chapter ten entitled “Problems of Foresight—And Hindsight,” with a sub-chapter on “the blinding effects of hindsight,” (actually chapter 11 in the final report, slightly renamed “Foresight—And Hindsight;” the “blinding effects” sub-heading does not appear in the final version, but the chapter starts with a meditation on the value of hindsight).
Kept Secret - Zelikow shows the report to Commission Chairman Tom Kean and Vice-chairman Lee Hamilton and they like it, but think it could be seen as evidence that they have pre-determined the outcome. Therefore, they all decide it should be kept secret from the commission’s staff. According to May it is “treated as if it were the most classified document the commission possessed.” Zelikow comes up with his own internal classification system, labeling it “Commission Sensitive,” a phrase that appears on the top and bottom of each page.
Staff Alarmed - When the staff find out about it and are given copies over a year later, they are alarmed. They realize that the sections of the report about the Bush administration’s failings will be in the middle of the report, and the reader will have to wade past chapters on al-Qaeda’s history to get to them. Author Philip Shenon will comment: “Many assumed the worst when they saw that Zelikow had proposed a portion of the report entitled ‘The Blinding Effects of Hindsight.’ What ‘blinding hindsight’? They assumed Zelikow was trying to dismiss the value of hindsight regarding the Bush administration’s pre-9/11 performance.” In addition, some staffers begin circulating a parody entitled “The Warren Commission Report—Preemptive Outline.” One of the parody’s chapter headings is “Single Bullet: We Haven’t Seen the Evidence Yet. But Really. We’re Sure.” [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004; SHENON, 2008, PP. 388-389]**

Source: Complete 911 Timeline: Role of Philip Zelikow

You don't believe there were thousands of people from the FAA, NTSB, airline safety experts, the military, the FBI, the CIA, various first responder groups such as the NYPD and NYFD and a multitude of others were involved in the investigation? Do you truly believe only 11 commissioners and their 80ish staffers were involved?

 

[phoenyx]

...The only official investigation that I'm aware of to even attempt to cover all of what happened on 9/11 was the 9/11 Commission. It was composed of 11 Commissioners and a few staff members:..

That's camel crap. The NIST employed a number of independent, non-governmental expert agencies to investigate and determine the nature and cause of the damage from the 9/11 terror attack on US targets. The American Society of Engineers was just one.

...Even NIST couldn't support The American Society of Engineer's "Pancake Theory"; all the evidence demonstrated the buildings simply couldn't collapse in that manner...

So you are saying [ASCE] was incompetent or that they are in on the conspiracy...

I'm saying that ASCE's "Pancake Theory" was so bad that even NIST couldn't support it. But don't take my word for it. NIST makes it perfectly clear that they don't support it:
**8. Why didn't NIST consider a "controlled demolition" hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation like it did for the "pancake theory" hypothesis?

...NIST's findings do not support the "pancake theory" of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel "trusses" integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram). **

Source: FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

 

[phoenyx]

All the facts are out about what happened on 9/11. No cover ups or conspiracies in that regard.

What draws you to that conclusion?

Well, for 1 thing we live in the instant-info age. Nothing that floats into anyone's mind these days isn't uploaded and spread within minutes.

The fact that people can publish pretty much whatever "floats" into their minds is not evidence that the official story is true.

No but it does cause rational people to apply the same measure of skepticism to what they find on the Internet that they do to the official findings.

That sounds reasonable.

In fact, given the creds and reputations of the non-gov't agencies that investigated 9/11, I'd say extra skepticism should be heaped on the "findings" of those in it for fame, fortune and book tours.

For starters who, precisely, are you referring to? "non-gov't agencies that investigated 9/11" is a very broad brush.

That you find GlobalResearch to be a credible source says all one needs to know about you.

What have you got against GlobalResearch anyway?

 

[phoenyx]

....Thousands of investigators from various agencies? So far, we have the 9/11 Commission, which has 11 Commissioners, as well as perhaps 80 staff members, the most important member being Philip Zelikow, the Executive Director. Here's an interesting bit of information you may not have known about:

**9/11 Commission Executive Director Philip Zelikow and Ernest May, a long-time associate of Zelikow and consultant to the commission, complete an outline of the commission’s final report, although the commission has barely began its work and will not report for another 16 months. The outline is detailed and contains chapter headings, subheadings, and sub-subheadings. The outline anticipates a 16-chapter report (note: the final report only has 13) that starts with a history of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden’s 1998 fatwa against the US. There will then be chapters on US counterterrorism policy, threat reporting leading up to 9/11, and the attacks themselves will be in chapter seven (in the final report, the day of 9/11 chapter is moved to the start).
"Blinding Effects of Hindsight" - Zelikow and May even have a chapter ten entitled “Problems of Foresight—And Hindsight,” with a sub-chapter on “the blinding effects of hindsight,” (actually chapter 11 in the final report, slightly renamed “Foresight—And Hindsight;” the “blinding effects” sub-heading does not appear in the final version, but the chapter starts with a meditation on the value of hindsight).
Kept Secret - Zelikow shows the report to Commission Chairman Tom Kean and Vice-chairman Lee Hamilton and they like it, but think it could be seen as evidence that they have pre-determined the outcome. Therefore, they all decide it should be kept secret from the commission’s staff. According to May it is “treated as if it were the most classified document the commission possessed.” Zelikow comes up with his own internal classification system, labeling it “Commission Sensitive,” a phrase that appears on the top and bottom of each page.
Staff Alarmed - When the staff find out about it and are given copies over a year later, they are alarmed. They realize that the sections of the report about the Bush administration’s failings will be in the middle of the report, and the reader will have to wade past chapters on al-Qaeda’s history to get to them. Author Philip Shenon will comment: “Many assumed the worst when they saw that Zelikow had proposed a portion of the report entitled ‘The Blinding Effects of Hindsight.’ What ‘blinding hindsight’? They assumed Zelikow was trying to dismiss the value of hindsight regarding the Bush administration’s pre-9/11 performance.” In addition, some staffers begin circulating a parody entitled “The Warren Commission Report—Preemptive Outline.” One of the parody’s chapter headings is “Single Bullet: We Haven’t Seen the Evidence Yet. But Really. We’re Sure.” [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004; SHENON, 2008, PP. 388-389]**

Source: Complete 911 Timeline: Role of Philip Zelikow

You don't believe there were thousands of people from the FAA, NTSB, airline safety experts, the military, the FBI, the CIA, various first responder groups such as the NYPD and NYFD and a multitude of others were involved in the investigation?

The term "involvement" is way too vague to be useful here. Personally, I like focusing on individuals. Speaking of someone within the FBI who was "involved" in the investigation of 9/11 shortly after the event, have you heard of a woman called Sibel Edmonds?

 

[Divine Wind]

The term "involvement" is way too vague to be useful here. Personally, I like focusing on individuals. Speaking of someone within the FBI who was "involved" in the investigation of 9/11 shortly after the event, have you heard of a woman called Sibel Edmonds?

Sorry, sir, but the post was clear. Do you or do you not believe there were more people "involved" in the investigation of 9/11 than 11 commissioners and 80ish staffers?

Do you really believe there were hundreds of people digging through the rubble of the Pentagon and saying "Where's the fucking airplane?" or do you acknowledge they didn't question it because they were too busy digging out pieces of a 757 and putting scraps of human hamburger into baggies?

 

[phoenyx]

The term "involvement" is way too vague to be useful here. Personally, I like focusing on individuals. Speaking of someone within the FBI who was "involved" in the investigation of 9/11 shortly after the event, have you heard of a woman called Sibel Edmonds?

Sorry, sir, but the post was clear.

Sure, the post was clear, in so far as it went. My point is that it was too vague to have a meaningful discussion.

Do you or do you not believe there were more people "involved" in the investigation of 9/11 than 11 commissioners and 80ish staffers?

Ofcourse. I think you've lost track of the context of my original remark. I'll bold the relevant part:
"The only official investigation that I'm aware of to even attempt to cover all of what happened on 9/11 was the 9/11 Commission. "

Do you really believe there were hundreds of people digging through the rubble of the Pentagon and saying "Where's the fucking airplane?"

Can you cite a source that states that hundreds of people were digging through the rubble of the Pentagon? As to the evidence that a large aircraft didn't crash into the Pentagon, there's a lot of it. I've gone over it before, in the Pentagon Flyover thread, which I'm currently taking a break from.

 

[Divine Wind]

before last post i see two other paid shills trolled here as well as you.sounds like agent sayit referred you all here to fart and troll in this thread.

Paid shills? "Agent SAYIT"?

Do you sleep with aluminum foil over your head? In a pyramid tent? Something other than the usual? Just curious.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Ofcourse. I think you've lost track of the context of my original remark. I'll bold the relevant part:
"The only official investigation that I'm aware of to even attempt to cover all of what happened on 9/11 was the 9/11 Commission. "

Do you really believe there were hundreds of people digging through the rubble of the Pentagon and saying "Where's the fucking airplane?"

Can you cite a source that states that hundreds of people were digging through the rubble of the Pentagon? As to the evidence that a large aircraft didn't crash into the Pentagon, there's a lot of it. I've gone over it before, in the Pentagon Flyover thread, which I'm currently taking a break from.

The fact you know very little about accident investigation and the agencies involved is revealing. No, sir, I won't ever be able to convince you are wrong. That's not my intention as stated several times previously.

 

[phoenyx]

Do you really believe there were hundreds of people digging through the rubble of the Pentagon and saying "Where's the fucking airplane?"

Can you cite a source that states that hundreds of people were digging through the rubble of the Pentagon? As to the evidence that a large aircraft didn't crash into the Pentagon, there's a lot of it. I've gone over it before, in the Pentagon Flyover thread, which I'm currently taking a break from.

The fact you know very little about accident investigation and the agencies involved is revealing.

What do you think I missed?

No, sir, I won't ever be able to convince you are wrong. That's not my intention as stated several times previously.

What -is- your intention, exactly?

 

[phoenyx]

before last post i see two other paid shills trolled here as well as you.sounds like agent sayit referred you all here to fart and troll in this thread.

Paid shills? "Agent SAYIT"?

Do you sleep with aluminum foil over your head? In a pyramid tent? Something other than the usual? Just curious.

As you probably know, I don't subscribe to LRF's notion that anyone who believes in the official story and continues to participate in this thread must be a "paid shill" and have brought it up with LRF. He continues with this notion, however, so I've given up trying to persuade him otherwise. I put his vocal belief on this in the same category as all the OCTers who hurl base insults at those who doubt or disagree with the official story. It's all a waste of time that distracts from actually discussing the evidence of what happened on 9/11.

 

[SAYIT]

The fact you know very little about accident investigation and the agencies involved is revealing.

What do you think I missed?

Specifically? The BOAT.

You already admitted that you know little about the outside agencies who contributed to the NIST findings or even of their part in the investigation yet you readily embrace any drivel from the thoroughly trashed CIT.

Your posts reek of your ignorance and your tunnel-vision POV.

No, sir, I won't ever be able to convince you are wrong. That's not my intention as stated several times previously.

What -is- your intention, exactly?

The long unanswered question is what is yours? Your theories and "facts" have been floated here for 15 years - you provide nothing new - and refuted by people (including many, many prominent "Truthers") smarter and more knowledgeable than you and I combined. At some point - and I realize how difficult it can be to renounce or at least abandon one's belief system - a rational adult must take a hard look at the holes in it and reconsider one's POV. You don't seem to have the capacity.

 

[Dalia]

Hello, thank you Phoenix for this thread....i saw before a documentary about the twin towers and the architect did say why the twin did not resist the impact of the plane.
Just because they were not built in fonction of a the terrorists attack, may be the matériel was not of great quality ? and we know that those beautiful twin towers cost a lot.
But sometime they build and they want to economise on the matérials they uses...that could be the reason that they collapes ?

 

[phoenyx]

The fact you know very little about accident investigation and the agencies involved is revealing.

What do you think I missed?

Specifically? The BOAT.

Not only is that not specific, that's not even anything other than a metaphor -.-

You already admitted that you know little about the outside agencies who contributed to the NIST findings

Look, I don't need to know exactly who contributed to the NIST "findings" to know that the findings were flawed. Numerous web sites/organizations have pointed out those flaws. Here's a sampling:
Fraud Exposed in NIST WTC 7 Reports - Part 1

Why the NIST WTC Report on the Towers is False

http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-are-nists-911-wtc-reports-false-and-unscientific/5399091

9-11 Research: The NIST Investigation

No, sir, I won't ever be able to convince you are wrong. That's not my intention as stated several times previously.

What -is- your intention, exactly?

The long unanswered question is what is yours?

I want people to know what really happened on 9/11. Now are you going to answer the question or are you going to dodge it again?

 

[phoenyx]

Hello, thank you Phoenix for this thread....i saw before a documentary about the twin towers and the architect did say why the twin did not resist the impact of the plane.
Just because they were not built in fonction of a the terrorists attack, may be the matériel was not of great quality ? and we know that those beautiful twin towers cost a lot.
But sometime they build and they want to economise on the matérials they uses...that could be the reason that they collapes ?

For a long time, many Architects and Engineers have determined that the official version of events concerning the collapse of the Twin Towers and Building 7 couldn't be the truth. They've written a long, detailed article as to why over 2,300 architects and engineers are demanding a new investigation, which can be seen here:
#2 of 6: NIST's WTC 7 Reports: Filled with Fantasy, Fiction, and Fraud

 

[Divine Wind]

Not only is that not specific, that's not even anything other than a metaphor -.-

Wrong again, it was all humor.

I want people to know what really happened on 9/11.

People do know. What makes you think you know something millions of others do not?

If these conspiracy theories were true, don't you realize you wouldn't even be posting? Your dead lifeless body would be found hanging in a closet due to an apparent erotic-asphyxian accidental suicide or wrapped around a tree in a tragic DUI accident.