7 States Sue over Contraception Mandate. It's not just the Catholics, OBUMMER!

[bodecea]

Yeah, but you see, I have this funny kind of morality that says those resources ought to be for the guys and gals who are coming back missing legs or with concussions or you know, things more serious than the paper cuts I used to get filling out DA Form 4697.

So you are criticizing me for NOT sponging off the government? I'm getting a bit confused following your arguments.

You hate Government, you hate socialized medicine, but you think that we should support the Welfare State of Israel so enthusastically and veterans should go to the VA even if they aren't having health problems related to their service.

If you served you are entiltled to those benefits.

Besides being kind of slimy by implying I didn't, I think you hit on the whole problem with a lot of government spending in general

"entitled"? Why should I be entitled to health care benefits for something I did 20 years ago? I mean, if was ever in a war zone, I might have an argument, but fortunately, I wasn't.

That's why we are 16 trillion in debt. Because we stopped calling things "charity" and started calling them "entitlements". So you have desk jockeys going to the VA hospital and old millionaires collecting fat checks from social security because we are "entitled" to them.

I think the VA SHOULD be there to take care of people who suffered adverse health conditions as a result of their service. But if you want to make it a golden ticket for anyone who ever wore a uniform, that's how you spend yourself into a hole, dumbass.

You sure you're not a liberal?

Then you want the government to go back on its word to our Vets. Can't support you there.

 

[Greenbeard]

What Ryan advocated in 2009 Obama signed into law in 2010. That seemed to just make Ryan more irate.

Read the palns before you comment..

Indeed I have. Here's Ryan's 2009 health reform legislation: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:h.r.02520:

The relevant bit for the means testing point is "SEC. 503. REDUCING GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS TO WEALTHIER SENIORS" which calls for the "Elimination of Annual Indexing of Income Thresholds for Reduced Part B Premium Subsidies" (achieved in Sec. 3402 of the ACA) and an "Income-Related Reduction in Part D Premium Subsidy" (achieved in Sec. 3308 of the ACA). Obama did it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDuMp2kDxos]Simpsons Did It![/ame]

 

[Jroc]

What Ryan advocated in 2009 Obama signed into law in 2010. That seemed to just make Ryan more irate.

Read the palns before you comment..

Indeed I have. Here's Ryan's 2009 health reform legislation: Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.2520 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

The relevant bit for the means testing point is "SEC. 503. REDUCING GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS TO WEALTHIER SENIORS" which calls for the "Elimination of Annual Indexing of Income Thresholds for Reduced Part B Premium Subsidies" (achieved in Sec. 3402 of the ACA) and an "Income-Related Reduction in Part D Premium Subsidy" (achieved in Sec. 3308 of the ACA). Obama did it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDuMp2kDxos]Simpsons Did It![/ame]

umm...do you think becouse Obama through into a almost 3000 page bill a little portion of Ryan's plan, that makes it Ryan's?

 

[Greenbeard]

umm...do you think becouse Obama through into a almost 3000 page bill a little portion of Ryan's plan, that makes it Ryan's?

No, I don't think that at all. In fact, my point is that the conservative media and its articles-- e.g. "Three reasons why introducing means-testing into entitlements, as Paul Ryan has done, is a good thing"--are mistakenly giving Paul Ryan credit for Obama's achievements.

 

[Jroc]

umm...do you think becouse Obama through into a almost 3000 page bill a little portion of Ryan's plan, that makes it Ryan's?

No, I don't think that at all. In fact, my point is that the conservative media and its articles-- e.g. "Three reasons why introducing means-testing into entitlements, as Paul Ryan has done, is a good thing"--are mistakenly giving Paul Ryan credit for Obama's achievements.

Obama's achievment? first of all Obama didn't write the bill, Second.. Most Americans don't want it. We'll see if it is an "achievement" when the election comes around, it might be his failure.

 

[francoHFW]

"Not just out of touch, fearful of ex-communication bishops and priests, also hypocrite, fear mongering bought off Pubs"....shocking, Pub dupes/liars...LOL!

 

[JoeB131]

If you served you are entiltled to those benefits.

Besides being kind of slimy by implying I didn't, I think you hit on the whole problem with a lot of government spending in general

"entitled"? Why should I be entitled to health care benefits for something I did 20 years ago? I mean, if was ever in a war zone, I might have an argument, but fortunately, I wasn't.

That's why we are 16 trillion in debt. Because we stopped calling things "charity" and started calling them "entitlements". So you have desk jockeys going to the VA hospital and old millionaires collecting fat checks from social security because we are "entitled" to them.

I think the VA SHOULD be there to take care of people who suffered adverse health conditions as a result of their service. But if you want to make it a golden ticket for anyone who ever wore a uniform, that's how you spend yourself into a hole, dumbass.

You sure you're not a liberal?

Then you want the government to go back on its word to our Vets. Can't support you there.

I think if you asked most vets who got out of the service without injury or defect, "Hey, we need to reserve those resources for those who were diabled", most would agree without hestitation.

 

[JoeB131]

Bureaucrats are not appointed by elected anything, and cannot be fired when a new administration comes in. Their only interest is expanding theor power base and making voters miserable.

Hmmm, the scary thing is that you probably actually believe that...

You really think that bureaucrats live to make people's lives miserable?

 

[JoeB131]

Hey idiot it wasn't me I pay for my health insurance because I have a small business and the premiums have one way up since Obama care get a clue Israel has only 7.s million people idiot

Well, those billions of dollars we send to Israel every year, probably helps them live large.

It really is a "welfare state".

.

Only if you think paying all your loans back on time is living large.

Israel does no such thing. We give them 4 billion a year in aid. Outright. Then we spend billions either knocking down whoever they are afraid of or bribing their neighbors to play nice.

Seriously, screw Israel.

 

[Greenbeard]

Obama's achievment? first of all Obama didn't write the bill, Second.. Most Americans don't want it. We'll see if it is an "achievement" when the election comes around, it might be his failure.

Your second point is the refutation of your first. No, Obama didn't write it. But he did the heavy lifting, he expended his political capital to pass it, and he's taken on the political risks (including having his name become synonymous with the policy in the popular consciousness)--which means he's entitled to his fair share of the rewards.

The language in the ACA for upping the ante on means testing in Medicare may have been copied and pasted from legislation Ryan sponsored, but Ryan hasn't had the courage to defend those provisions (indeed, he's gone so far as to cast a vote for their repeal). They're Obama's baby now. So the next time the conservative blogosphere is trumpeting means testing in Medicare, they might want to go with a new title: "Three reasons why introducing means-testing into entitlements, as Barack Obama has done, is a good thing."

 

[Syphon]

umm...do you think becouse Obama through into a almost 3000 page bill a little portion of Ryan's plan, that makes it Ryan's?

No, I don't think that at all. In fact, my point is that the conservative media and its articles-- e.g. "Three reasons why introducing means-testing into entitlements, as Paul Ryan has done, is a good thing"--are mistakenly giving Paul Ryan credit for Obama's achievements.

Obama's achievment? first of all Obama didn't write the bill, Second.. Most Americans don't want it. We'll see if it is an "achievement" when the election comes around, it might be his failure.

its actually pretty much split down the middle on those for and those against. i simply want to know outside the mandate, which exact section of the law do you disagree with? and i mean exact section. assuming you have actually read the entire law...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Simple enough solution.

Universal Health Care. Get employers out of the picture altogether.

The notion I could be denied medical treatment because my employer is a religious fanatic is kind of frightening.

That is NOT a solution. That's just Obama taking it to the next step which is his goal anyway.

You don't think this move by Obama is part of his goal of forcing governnment healthcare on us?

Very possibly. employer-based health insurance is already an albatross on the neck of American business. Europe and Japan have universal health care, and are a lot more competitive.

I do think that Obama is trying to preserve the current system for as long as possible because culturally, we like to think of ourselves as "rugged individualists". But even the Insurance Industry has admitted that the system as it is can't go on.

We have a closet obama supporter.

 

[JoeB131]

That is NOT a solution. That's just Obama taking it to the next step which is his goal anyway.

You don't think this move by Obama is part of his goal of forcing governnment healthcare on us?

Very possibly. employer-based health insurance is already an albatross on the neck of American business. Europe and Japan have universal health care, and are a lot more competitive.

I do think that Obama is trying to preserve the current system for as long as possible because culturally, we like to think of ourselves as "rugged individualists". But even the Insurance Industry has admitted that the system as it is can't go on.

We have a closet obama supporter.

Not at all.

Since Romney and Obama both agree on how to fix this problem, this isn't really an issue, is it?

I mean, Romney wouldn't want to be caught having a drink with RomneyCare right now, but the fact is, he was for mandates before he was against them.

Also- again, the insurance industry itself knows the status quo isn't sustainable without government intervention. Why do you think all the big insurance companies lined up behind ObamaCare so quickly.

You didn't see Harry and Louise this time, like you saw back in 1993 when Hillary proposed something a lot milder.

 

[francoHFW]

"Not just out of touch, fearful of ex-communication bishops and priests, also hypocrite, fear mongering bought off Pubs"....shocking, Pub dupes/liars...LOL!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bureaucrats are not appointed by elected anything, and cannot be fired when a new administration comes in. Their only interest is expanding theor power base and making voters miserable.

Hmmm, the scary thing is that you probably actually believe that...

You really think that bureaucrats live to make people's lives miserable?

Do you really think they don't? you yourself pointed out that your one and only encounter with a bureaucrat was a negative one.

 

[Greenbeard]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IkBXlGebeM]Bureaucrats[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, those billions of dollars we send to Israel every year, probably helps them live large.

It really is a "welfare state".

.

Only if you think paying all your loans back on time is living large.

Israel does no such thing. We give them 4 billion a year in aid. Outright. Then we spend billions either knocking down whoever they are afraid of or bribing their neighbors to play nice.

Seriously, screw Israel.

I love it when people make up numbers.

In 2010 we spent a grand total of $3.175 billion in military aid to Israel. The vast majority of that ended up back in US hands when Israel bought weapons from US manufacturers. (We gave Egypt $1.55 billion the same year, which also ended up with them buying weapons from US manufacturers.) That is a lot of money to a country that spent less than $70billion that year, but it is a drop in the bucket for a country that spent $3.5 trillion. We actually gave more foreign aid to Africa than we did Isreal in 2010.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, I don't think that at all. In fact, my point is that the conservative media and its articles-- e.g. "Three reasons why introducing means-testing into entitlements, as Paul Ryan has done, is a good thing"--are mistakenly giving Paul Ryan credit for Obama's achievements.

Obama's achievment? first of all Obama didn't write the bill, Second.. Most Americans don't want it. We'll see if it is an "achievement" when the election comes around, it might be his failure.

its actually pretty much split down the middle on those for and those against. i simply want to know outside the mandate, which exact section of the law do you disagree with? and i mean exact section. assuming you have actually read the entire law...

If you think 59/35 is split down the middle I would love to split a check with you.

 

[Syphon]

thanks for making up more facts again:

Health Reform Law Gaining Wider Acceptance: Poll - Yahoo!
Harris Interactive: Press Releases > Parts of Health Reform Law Gaining in Acceptance: Poll
Change of Subject: Why the campaign against 'Obamacare' will be a loser

The "not liberal enough" slice of the population is usually a little under 15 percent in CNN/ORC polling in 2011 and 2012. Maybe not a "large chunk" but large enough to turn the percentage of those who either favor the law or want it to go further in a 52% to 53% percent majority in the last two polls:

thanks for not mention that 15% of those against the law are against it simply because it did not go far enough........

 

[J.E.D]

7 States Sue over Contraception Mandate. It's not just the Catholics, OBUMMER!

I wonder how many of those states already have a similar mandate put in place by state legislatures? Maybe one of them is NH - which had such a mandate put in place by a Republican-controlled legislature 12 years ago. Maybe one of them is AR - whose Republican governor Huckabee signed such a mandate into law in 2005. Or NY - whose Republican governor George Pataki signed such a mandate into law in 2001