50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Asclepias]

Wow, you sounded exactly like JakeFakey just then.





That is not a compliment...

That guy must have you pegged then. i need to meet him.

I'm sure you'd get along swimmingly. You seem to be roughly intellectual equals.

So the number of people on here with an IQ level higher than yours is actually in the 4 digit range?

 

[Unkotare]

No they pretended to think like the natives until they got enough fire power to enforce their true beliefs. Oldstyle is trying to claim his ancestors bought the land. According to you thats not possible. Which one of you are lying?

What part of "European settlers DID live according to such concepts" did you not understand?

The part were they pulled out a land deed and told the Natives they were trespassing.

So.....that would indicate that "European settlers DID live according to such concepts," right? Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

 

[Unkotare]

That guy must have you pegged then. i need to meet him.

I'm sure you'd get along swimmingly. You seem to be roughly intellectual equals.

So the number of people on here with an IQ level higher than yours is actually in the 4 digit range?

I don't know, but I'm getting a strong impression that YOUR IQ is in the single-digit range.

 

[Oldstyle]

They probably didnt feel swindled until your ancestors showed them a land deed and some guns and told them they couldnt trespass anymore. By then it was too late for them to do something about it. I know whites acted nice then but was just the first step in stealing the land. Odds are your family gave them a pallet of muskrat skins and a keg. They thought you whites were nice but weird because they knew the land was for everyone

The odds are better than my ancestors gave them what the Indians determined was fair market value for that land. Things like metal hatchets, cloth and metal pots were incredibly valuable in the Americas because they had to be imported. Basically things that the Indians couldn't make themselves held great value. That doesn't mean they felt swindled because they exchanged something that was in great supply...land...for something that was scarce. In truth the Indians probably felt they were coming out way ahead on the deal.

That was pretty much the intent and par for the course. Give the savages some trinkets in exchange for the state of Massachusetts. Everyone was happy until the white boys pulled out their land deeds later on down the road. Are you really trying to say some axes and metal pots was fair exchange for some land that the natives would not have sold if they understood what was going on?

To a civilization that doesn't have metal axes or metal pots then YES metal axes and pots would be more than fair exchange for something that was in abundance...land. What you call "trinkets" were extremely valuable back then. If you needed to chop down a tree and you didn't have an axe...how exactly would you go about it? Until they got metal axes through trading...the typical way of doing so was to slowly burn the trunk through. Think about how long it would take to do something like that and then tell me that an iron axe is just a "trinket".

 

[Asclepias]

What part of "European settlers DID live according to such concepts" did you not understand?

The part were they pulled out a land deed and told the Natives they were trespassing.

So.....that would indicate that "European settlers DID live according to such concepts," right? Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

They lived according the Natives beliefs until they could switch it up and legally steal the land. Do you know what you are talking about? it was your question.

 

[Asclepias]

The odds are better than my ancestors gave them what the Indians determined was fair market value for that land. Things like metal hatchets, cloth and metal pots were incredibly valuable in the Americas because they had to be imported. Basically things that the Indians couldn't make themselves held great value. That doesn't mean they felt swindled because they exchanged something that was in great supply...land...for something that was scarce. In truth the Indians probably felt they were coming out way ahead on the deal.

That was pretty much the intent and par for the course. Give the savages some trinkets in exchange for the state of Massachusetts. Everyone was happy until the white boys pulled out their land deeds later on down the road. Are you really trying to say some axes and metal pots was fair exchange for some land that the natives would not have sold if they understood what was going on?

To a civilization that doesn't have metal axes or metal pots then YES metal axes and pots would be more than fair exchange for something that was in abundance...land. What you call "trinkets" were extremely valuable back then. If you needed to chop down a tree and you didn't have an axe...how exactly would you go about it? Until they got metal axes through trading...the typical way of doing so was to slowly burn the trunk through. Think about how long it would take to do something like that and then tell me that an iron axe is just a "trinket".

OK. Now your trying to say indians couldnt chop down trees? They really did a number on you in school.

 

[Oldstyle]

You seem to have this concept that there was a Home Depot just down the river from these Indians and they could pick up whatever they needed on a whim. The truth is...when explorers arrived from Europe with iron tools it was like a space ship landing today with advanced tech things that we've never seen. Would you trade something you had tons of for something that doesn't exist in your world? Duh?

 

[Unkotare]

They lived according the Natives beliefs .

I did not say that. You fail reading comprehension again.

 

[Oldstyle]

That was pretty much the intent and par for the course. Give the savages some trinkets in exchange for the state of Massachusetts. Everyone was happy until the white boys pulled out their land deeds later on down the road. Are you really trying to say some axes and metal pots was fair exchange for some land that the natives would not have sold if they understood what was going on?

To a civilization that doesn't have metal axes or metal pots then YES metal axes and pots would be more than fair exchange for something that was in abundance...land. What you call "trinkets" were extremely valuable back then. If you needed to chop down a tree and you didn't have an axe...how exactly would you go about it? Until they got metal axes through trading...the typical way of doing so was to slowly burn the trunk through. Think about how long it would take to do something like that and then tell me that an iron axe is just a "trinket".

OK. Now your trying to say indians couldnt chop down trees? They really did a number on you in school.

LOL...unlike you...I actually LEARNED things in school. What would an Indian use to chop down a tree before they obtained iron axes from Europeans? They were using flint tools and weapons. Hence the use of fire to both take down bigger trees and to hollow them out to use as boats. You really need to bone up on your Native American culture...you're woefully ignorant of how they lived.

 

[Oldstyle]

And if you don't believe me...fashion yourself a flint axe and go out into the woods and cut down a large tree. See how that works out for ya'!

 

[Oldstyle]

What the Indians did to fell larger trees was to build a ring of fire around the base of a tree, "girdling" it. You'd know this kind of stuff if you hadn't spent all that time getting "indoctrinated" in those Black Studies classes you took in college, Asclapias!

 

[Asclepias]

To a civilization that doesn't have metal axes or metal pots then YES metal axes and pots would be more than fair exchange for something that was in abundance...land. What you call "trinkets" were extremely valuable back then. If you needed to chop down a tree and you didn't have an axe...how exactly would you go about it? Until they got metal axes through trading...the typical way of doing so was to slowly burn the trunk through. Think about how long it would take to do something like that and then tell me that an iron axe is just a "trinket".

OK. Now your trying to say indians couldnt chop down trees? They really did a number on you in school.

LOL...unlike you...I actually LEARNED things in school. What would an Indian use to chop down a tree before they obtained iron axes from Europeans? They were using flint tools and weapons. Hence the use of fire to both take down bigger trees and to hollow them out to use as boats. You really need to bone up on your Native American culture...you're woefully ignorant of how they lived.

Dont believe the white boy books of history. They had a vested interest in making natives seem savage like and stupid.

 

[Unkotare]

Dont believe the white boy books of history. .

Racist douche.

 

[Oldstyle]

OK. Now your trying to say indians couldnt chop down trees? They really did a number on you in school.

LOL...unlike you...I actually LEARNED things in school. What would an Indian use to chop down a tree before they obtained iron axes from Europeans? They were using flint tools and weapons. Hence the use of fire to both take down bigger trees and to hollow them out to use as boats. You really need to bone up on your Native American culture...you're woefully ignorant of how they lived.

Dont believe the white boy books of history. They had a vested interest in making natives seem savage like and stupid.

You'd get the same "history" from books written by Native Americans, Mensa Man. Pointing out that Indians didn't possess the tools to fell large trees isn't "white boy history"...it's simply fact. You being the racist that you are, can't deal with facts though...can you?

You're the one who seems to think the "natives" were "savage and stupid" because they traded something they had an abundance of (land) for things they didn't possess (iron axes, iron kettles and cloth). They were neither. They did what they did because it was in their best interest to make those trades.

 

[Asclepias]

LOL...unlike you...I actually LEARNED things in school. What would an Indian use to chop down a tree before they obtained iron axes from Europeans? They were using flint tools and weapons. Hence the use of fire to both take down bigger trees and to hollow them out to use as boats. You really need to bone up on your Native American culture...you're woefully ignorant of how they lived.

Dont believe the white boy books of history. They had a vested interest in making natives seem savage like and stupid.

You'd get the same "history" from books written by Native Americans, Mensa Man. Pointing out that Indians didn't possess the tools to fell large trees isn't "white boy history"...it's simply fact. You being the racist that you are, can't deal with facts though...can you?

You're the one who seems to think the "natives" were "savage and stupid" because they traded something they had an abundance of (land) for things they didn't possess (iron axes, iron kettles and cloth). They were neither. They did what they did because it was in their best interest to make those trades.

Not true but if thats what you want to believe. It most decidedly was not in their best interests. They can go get an axe at Home Depot. They cant get the true value of their land back. Your ancestors swindled them.

 

[Oldstyle]

Why then would they make that trade if it wasn't beneficial to them?

The fact is, iron tools to a culture essentially still existing in the Stone Age is a huge thing. You don't even realize that you are calling the Native Americans stupid when in fact what they were doing made perfect sense to them.

And for God's sake...I was being tongue in cheek about the whole Home Depot thing... LOL

 

[Oldstyle]

You continue to display an almost childlike ignorance of world history. At one time salt was so valuable a commodity that nations went to war over it. Yet there were places where salt was so plentiful that you could buy it for next to nothing. The value of anything is in direct proportion to it's scarcity. If you're surrounded by lakes then water isn't a priority to you...if you're stranded in the desert miles from it...then it is. What you would pay for water in each locale isn't indicative of your intelligence or prove someone else was a swindler for selling it dearly. Do you really not understand basic concepts like this?

 

[Unkotare]

You continue to display an almost childlike ignorance of world history. At one time salt was so valuable a commodity that nations went to war over it. Yet there were places where salt was so plentiful that you could buy it for next to nothing. The value of anything is in direct proportion to it's scarcity. If you're surrounded by lakes then water isn't a priority to you...if you're stranded in the desert miles from it...then it is. What you would pay for water in each locale isn't indicative of your intelligence or prove someone else was a swindler for selling it dearly. Do you really not understand basic concepts like this?

He finds them a "challenge" to understand, and therefore "bad manners," which is of course "racist."

 

[Asclepias]

You continue to display an almost childlike ignorance of world history. At one time salt was so valuable a commodity that nations went to war over it. Yet there were places where salt was so plentiful that you could buy it for next to nothing. The value of anything is in direct proportion to it's scarcity. If you're surrounded by lakes then water isn't a priority to you...if you're stranded in the desert miles from it...then it is. What you would pay for water in each locale isn't indicative of your intelligence or prove someone else was a swindler for selling it dearly. Do you really not understand basic concepts like this?

We are not talking about salt or sugar or even corn syrup. We are talking about the fact that native Americans were swindled due to the sense of ownership they believed in. It doesnt mean they were stupid. The were ignorant of things to come. At most due to their belief system they were allowing your ancestors to share the land. Little did they know they needed an attorney.

 

[Oldstyle]

When you let ideology sway your perception of the facts trying to truly understand things becomes a "challenge".

Asclepias would rather believe that Native Americans had access to a Home Depot than admit that they weren't swindled by Europeans when they sold them land. It's rather amusing to watch...