? 4 those of all faiths ....why do you think god allows...

[JohnA]

i have a question for those of all faiths and those who have none....

why would a just and righteous god allow what is going on to go on?

why would he allow his beloved children to hate each other over beliefs in him or her?

i see people like benny hinn (the faith healer) and wonder why god doesnt strike him dead? do you ever wonder about this?

the answer to you question is ..simple

he would,nt and does,nt cus there is no such thing as god/s
gods thou the ages have all been a tool invented by man to control whether it be the modern jesus fiqure or the ancient sun god

and its worked the belief in a supernatural being has been the weapon thou history where by a few have controlled the masses .

belief in a diety has been the cause of most wars and will continue to be so ..who ever wins controls ....

some PERSON invented it promoted it by force unusally put themselves in charge perporting to be ** anointed by god ** and ruled until the era was succeeded by another belief system
eventually like all other *god figures the modern ones will become extinct and and folks will look back at our superstitions as we do when considering greek /roman gods

you gave an example beny hinn( who is by the way a fucking arab ) the fact the people believe that fraud shows how easy it is to control the population by using there fear of the unknown to instill in them a need for a believe in the diety and promising them life after death which of course we have no proof of.

in the subject of *heaven * more facts to disqualify the thought
according to the bile ONLY those who beleive in jesus wil go to heaven am i right ??
so that leaves 2/3rds of the worlds population with nowhere to go after death
add on those milllions who have died over the centuries not believing in jesus makes heaven a rather small place for a special group of humans **some of those born in the last 2000 years

IF your god was a loving caring god who made* all of us in his image * WHY would he not allow most of his creations to be with him after death Even after letting them suffers hunger, thirst and all sorts of disabilities and deseases
and just take a select few ?????
that doesnt seem like somebody who would endow you with happiness and love after death does it .???
thats more of a question to ask the believers

 

[CosmicRocker]

The Noble Eightfold Path

1. Right View (Wisdom )
2. Right Intention

3. Right Speech (Ethical Conduct )
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood

6. Right Effort (Mental Development)
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration

Let gods take care of the cosmos, it's my resoncibility to run my life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by jillian
because people are allowed free will. and that free will allows them to do not such good things.

So he's not an all loving God.

A totally righteous spiritual entity would not create a "soap opera", a "video game" where his creation would be allowed to opt between good and evil, kindness and cruelty.

Why is He not "all-loving"? Because He doesn't express it the way YOU think He should? When did YOU become the omniscient standard by which everything and everyone in the universe is judged? Who decided that YOU were the arbiter of love and how it's expressed?

While you're pompously and self-righteously deciding that the Creator of the Universe isn't living up to your standards (hubristic much?) answer me these two questions: One, how does He create a world where people do not have any option except to be good and kind without thereby creating a world full of empty, mindless marionettes? Two, would you want Him to come down and take away YOUR free will in order to create your perfect society?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Lots and lots of messages but absolutely no answer to strollingbones' questions:

why would a just and righteous god allow what is going on to go on?

why would he allow his beloved children to hate each other over beliefs in him or her?

A God who favors the freedom of his creatures to do evil over goodness itself is not the totally righteous spiritual being described in Judeo-Christian theology.

I have lots of answers. You won't think I have SATISFACTORY answers, because they aren't what you want to hear. I see that as a fault with the listener, not with the answer.

Why would a just and righteous God NOT allow people the choice to be evil? Is it just or righteous to make people into helpless dolls with no control over themselves or their lives?

Ditto the second one. Why WOULDN'T He allow his children to hate each other, if they choose? What's so just and righteous about a world full of Stepford worshippers?

Where in Judeo-Christian theology do you find justification for your claim that God allowing free will and freedom of choice means He's not righteous?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Fitz, at least, made an attempt to reconcile a righteous God with the existence of evil.

A failed one, IMO, but at least he tried.

I must assume it's "failed" based merely on the fact that you didn't like what he said, since you certainly did nothing whatsoever to rebut any of it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ya talkin about King James' Gawd ?
The entity in the story that kills everything on earth but a handful of Jews and a bunch of animals on a ship .
He loves you !

Praise Allah
I wonder if I can trade in the seventy two virgins for a couple retired porn starlets ?

dont worry about it dipshit....not everyone thinks your an asshole....from what i hear, Jesus still loves ya...

Jesus loves him, but I'll bet He still thinks he's an asshole.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

still no good answer...yes as a parent i would discipline my child but would i condemn them to an eternity of hell....no

as a parent, i would not allow them to be exploited in the name of anything...

these faith healers do nothing but that....be it oral roberts or benny hinn

i am not fond of the grahams either....why does billy graham live in a retreat but waco was a compound?

should the vatican ever be a rich country?

why are christians willing to render unto ceasar except for property taxes on churches and their properties?

judaism doesn't believe in hell. i agree... no G-d would condemn his children to an eternity in flames.

and just my own opinion on the difference between a 'retreat' and a 'compound' is that graham's followers can leave the 'retreat' as they wish. koresh's in waco couldn't. the other is that i always say the difference between a cult and a religion is 2,000 years.

There is NO FIERY Hell in the Bible. Catholics made that up. At the end those not found acceptable to God will be returned to death. No hell no fiery pit. And right now all those that have died are "asleep" according to the bible, again no fiery hell.

 

[elvis]

still no good answer...yes as a parent i would discipline my child but would i condemn them to an eternity of hell....no

as a parent, i would not allow them to be exploited in the name of anything...

these faith healers do nothing but that....be it oral roberts or benny hinn

i am not fond of the grahams either....why does billy graham live in a retreat but waco was a compound?

should the vatican ever be a rich country?

why are christians willing to render unto ceasar except for property taxes on churches and their properties?

judaism doesn't believe in hell. i agree... no G-d would condemn his children to an eternity in flames.

and just my own opinion on the difference between a 'retreat' and a 'compound' is that graham's followers can leave the 'retreat' as they wish. koresh's in waco couldn't. the other is that i always say the difference between a cult and a religion is 2,000 years.

There is NO FIERY Hell in the Bible. Catholics made that up. At the end those not found acceptable to God will be returned to death. No hell no fiery pit. And right now all those that have died are "asleep" according to the bible, again no fiery hell.

dead are awaiting judgment day?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

judaism doesn't believe in hell. i agree... no G-d would condemn his children to an eternity in flames.

and just my own opinion on the difference between a 'retreat' and a 'compound' is that graham's followers can leave the 'retreat' as they wish. koresh's in waco couldn't. the other is that i always say the difference between a cult and a religion is 2,000 years.

There is NO FIERY Hell in the Bible. Catholics made that up. At the end those not found acceptable to God will be returned to death. No hell no fiery pit. And right now all those that have died are "asleep" according to the bible, again no fiery hell.

dead are awaiting judgment day?

Yes all the dead will be called forth to be Judged on Judgement day. No hell and no human except Jesus has ever ascended to Heaven.

 

[Big Fitz]

So he's not an all loving God.

Wrong. You assume that tough love isn't love. Secondly you are viewing love through imperfect sin damaged eyes and intellect.

A totally righteous spiritual entity would not create a "soap opera", a "video game" where his creation would be allowed to opt between good and evil, kindness and cruelty.

Oh? You know the mind and purpose of God? You'd be the first human in history to do so.

You assume so much.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

The good, old Problem of Evil.

An all powerful, all loving God would not allow evil in His works.

If he wants to end evil and can't he's not all powerful. If he can but doesn't want to he's not all loving. Despite all the best efforts of countless generations of theologians the fact is the conundrum simply does not have a satisfactory answer.

My personal answer is that good and evil are merely abstractions that are created soon after rational beings appear on a given planet. These two concepts do not have any "external validation" IMO.

I fully understand the consequences of my belief are too frightful for most people to consider. This belief basically means there's no real difference between historical characters like Jesus and Hitler outside of the human brain.

Actually, a satisfactory answer, at least to me, is that while God certainly could end all evil, He's given man free will to either accept or reject Him. If he rejects Him and wants to do evil, that's man's choice. Because God CAN end all evil in the world doesn't mean that He SHOULD. Now, you or others may THINK He should, and I'm not going to tell you what to believe or think (like many people try to do), but that's my opinion.

You make an interesting point regarding Hitler and Jesus though. I take it to mean that you believe that if there is no God that there are really no need for morals, or am I interpreting your meaning incorrectly? Thanks.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

i have a question for those of all faiths and those who have none....

why would a just and righteous god allow what is going on to go on?

why would he allow his beloved children to hate each other over beliefs in him or her?

i see people like benny hinn (the faith healer) and wonder why god doesnt strike him dead? do you ever wonder about this?

Benny Hinn is a hoot. What is sad is that people believe in him.

I have not reviewed the thread yet but I assume you will hear it is becuase god gives people a choice. Obey him or burn in hell for all eternity.

And judging from the bible heaven is not such a good place either. 1/3? of the angels revolted and Satan used to be in heaven as well.
War in heaven? Well I suppose that would be heaven for some...

Why do people who don't believe in a place (Hell) get wound up that they might be going there? If someone doesn't believe and they're right then they have nothing to worry about. If they're wrong then they pay the price for how they've lived. And deservedly so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

i have a question for those of all faiths and those who have none....

why would a just and righteous god allow what is going on to go on?

why would he allow his beloved children to hate each other over beliefs in him or her?

i see people like benny hinn (the faith healer) and wonder why god doesnt strike him dead? do you ever wonder about this?

What is it that you expect a just and righteous God to do if people disagree with them? Kill them? How is that either just or righteous?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Originally posted by jillian
because people are allowed free will. and that free will allows them to do not such good things.

So he's not an all loving God.

A totally righteous spiritual entity would not create a "soap opera", a "video game" where his creation would be allowed to opt between good and evil, kindness and cruelty.

How is letting people make their own choices not righteous? Would making everyone slaves that have no choice to obey be more righteous?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Lots and lots of messages but absolutely no answer to strollingbones' questions:

why would a just and righteous god allow what is going on to go on?

why would he allow his beloved children to hate each other over beliefs in him or her?

A God who favors the freedom of his creatures to do evil over goodness itself is not the totally righteous spiritual being described in Judeo-Christian theology.

Wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

when things go bad it's our own fault cuz we have the free will but when things go good praise jesus who done gave it to you!

Thank you for the scintillating and eminently logical argument.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

still no good answer...yes as a parent i would discipline my child but would i condemn them to an eternity of hell....no

as a parent, i would not allow them to be exploited in the name of anything...

these faith healers do nothing but that....be it oral roberts or benny hinn

i am not fond of the grahams either....why does billy graham live in a retreat but waco was a compound?

should the vatican ever be a rich country?

why are christians willing to render unto ceasar except for property taxes on churches and their properties?

Can you show me anywhere in the Bible it talks about condemning anyone to an eternity of Hell?

By the way, the thing about property taxes applies to all religions, and was made up by our government. It was not a decree from God.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Originally posted by jillian
because people are allowed free will. and that free will allows them to do not such good things.

So he's not an all loving God.

A totally righteous spiritual entity would not create a "soap opera", a "video game" where his creation would be allowed to opt between good and evil, kindness and cruelty.

How is letting people make their own choices not righteous? Would making everyone slaves that have no choice to obey be more righteous?

Some people want to live without ultimate repercussions or to be forgiven at the end. And as much of a science geek as I am, I think it's patently ridiculous to believe there's no creator.

 

[JohnA]

Sin, man's fall (corporately), God's redemption (individually), man restored (individually), then comes the end of time and eternal life for those who chose to be saved.

What was this individual's child's sin? What about children who suffer and die before being given a chance to learn of Jesus and make an informed choice? I guess that they go to hell.

http://orugallu.net/vinDu/images/misc/sudanchild1.jpg

i was always told that they and handicapped people are given that ticket to "heaven" automatically....

Where in the bible does it say or even suggest that?
more b/s thought up to keep the myth alive

 

[JohnA]

Originally posted by jillian
because people are allowed free will. and that free will allows them to do not such good things.

So he's not an all loving God.

A totally righteous spiritual entity would not create a "soap opera", a "video game" where his creation would be allowed to opt between good and evil, kindness and cruelty.

Why is He not "all-loving"? Because He doesn't express it the way YOU think He should? When did YOU become the omniscient standard by which everything and everyone in the universe is judged? Who decided that YOU were the arbiter of love and how it's expressed?

While you're pompously and self-righteously deciding that the Creator of the Universe isn't living up to your standards (hubristic much?) answer me these two questions: One, how does He create a world where people do not have any option except to be good and kind without thereby creating a world full of empty, mindless marionettes? Two, would you want Him to come down and take away YOUR free will in order to create your perfect society?

Nobody is saying that
i and others dont care one way of hte other about him its you who believe that say he is a good loving just forgiving entity the reality is if he does exist the actions he allows humans to do each other and the handicaps some folks have to bear though out there lives when he has the power to stop it , proves that the god you speak of isnt that kind of god at all .
if humans have the free will to do **evil * since he is the creater he must have created the evil as well as the good .

if you stopped praising him and insisting that all he does is good and loving and the suns shines out if his asshole folks like me would not keep on contradicting you


look at the facts if he exists at all he is cruel sadistic discriminating mother fucker .

and by the way who decides YOU should be the arbitrator of what gods is and what is good
you seem to think you can judge him but those that dont believe the same as you cant ..
one of the fundamental weaknesses of christianity
you believe you have the right and ONLY YOU have the right to judge what god is