2013 was the 4th warmest year based on noaa data

[orogenicman]

I'm afraid I just can't bring thoughts to mind after hearing the kind of mental drivel you're peddling.

So basically you are admitting that when someone presents a thoughtful response, your brain shuts down. Is there anything else you care to admit, Mr. Obvious?

And as is typical for you and your idiot friends, when one thing is said, you hear the opposite.

It is not difficult to see when your brain shuts down. You type your word salad on your keyboard, and the word salad appears on the internet for all to see.

 

[westwall]

Looks like the energy goes into the oceans and they control the atmosphere when we're talking about climate.

Look at the power the oceans have within the enso.

And UV can penetrate meters deep into the ocean to warm them. Long wave IR can only penetrate MICRONS deep. Which means that IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the oceans, which means IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the planet.

Case. Closed.

 

[ScienceRocks]

For Long wave(Ir) you're right westwall...

Short wave warms the oceans like it does the land and air....

I'll agree that it is quite weird how the top 700 meters hasn't been warming. Something smells bad.

 

[mamooth]

And UV can penetrate meters deep into the ocean to warm them. Long wave IR can only penetrate MICRONS deep. Which means that IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the oceans, which means IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the planet.

Case. Closed.

So the IR is absorbed in the first millimeter of the oceans, but doesn't heat the oceans. Apparently, that first millimeter of the ocean isn't part of the ocean. Or something like that.

Yep, it's more of that magical denialist physics. They're not very good at understanding heat flow in the real world. Though that bit isn't particularly important, since the ocean gets very little heat in the IR bands.

Real world. The ocean absorbs most the energy it gets from the sun in the visible wavelengths, and the ocean generally is warmer than the atmosphere. The denialists manage to get that much right.

Then they start failing. They don't fathom that heat transfer _out_ of the ocean is mainly based on delta-T between ocean and air. Higher air temps, lower delta_T, less heat out, ocean keeps more heat. Hence the net result is that warming air temps warm the oceans, even if air temps are still lower than ocean temps.

 

[mamooth]

The ocean is warmer than the atmosphere and therefore, not warmed by it. The ocean drives the temperature of the atmosphere, not the other way around.

You said something with a low heat capacity (air) can't heat something with a high heat capacity (water). That claim was stupid and wrong. Since your post is right there, don't try to revise history and claim you actually said that a cool thing can't heat a warm thing. Instead, show some class and thank me for educating you.

 

[mamooth]

clearly your cartoon shows the net moving from cool to warm....

To those who understand the second law, that's not a problem. You don't, so you have a problem, but that problem is yours alone. The real world pays no attention to whatever kook dimension you draw your science from.

 

[SwimExpert]

You said something with a low heat capacity (air) can't heat something with a high heat capacity (water).

No, that's not what he said. Is this really what you think he meant? If so, I'll be happy to clarify. On the other hand, if you're deliberately being dishonest please slap yourself in the face and send yourself to bed without any supper. Lying will not be tolerated in this house, young man.

 

[Abraham3]

A 125 year period is insignificant on the geological scale.

We don't live on a geological scale.

So what? This isn't a discussion about things happening in a human lifetime. It's a discussion about things happening over the course of the Earth's lifetime.

What the fuck are you talking about? It is a discussion about the last 150 years and perhaps the next 2,000.

Unless you're talking about something completely different than the rest of the folks here are talking about. That might explain a few things... ;-)

 

[Abraham3]

While you were reading the whole thing, did you happen to read the professional description of the people they actually surveyed in that study - that is, what they all actually did for a living?

Professional engineers and geoscientists.

Professional engineers and geoscientists WHO ALL WORK FOR THE CANADIAN OIL INDUSTRY.

Did you think no one here knew that? That "survey" came up months ago. It's complete crap. About as accurate as a survey of Senator Inhofe's ENTIRE staff.

 

[Abraham3]

I'd also like to suggest that if you think the components of sea level rise do not support the increased OHC that Balmaseda, Trenberth & Kallen found, you show me such an opinion from someone actually qualified to form it.

And what makes you qualified to say that their conclusions are correct?

Because I can read the letters "PhD". I can read the number of citations. I can read the number of other peer-reviewed publications. I can read the responses to this work from other climate scientists.

I didn't ask you for YOUR qualifications. Just like the rest of us, you're quite obviously not a degreed climate scientist. I simply asked you for a qualified reference spouting the same line you're spouting (or was that FCT). Doesn't it ever strike you that you have a lot fewer references to quote than do the folks with whom you're arguing? That REALLY ought to tell you something. And if you're not another paranoid who thinks every climate scientist on Earth is in a conspiracy, there's really only one conclusion to be had.

 

[Old Rocks]

The heat capacity of the solid things in my house is much greater than that of the air, yet the air in my house is what heats the solid things in my house. According to SSDD, that's not possible. So everyone, turn off your furnaces, because SSDD says they won't heat your house.

The depth od your stupidity never ceases to amaze me. Do you manage to dress and feed yourself or do you have help with that? The solid things in your home are presumably not heated by the sun and are therefore cooler than the surrounding air...things heated by the sun are warmer than the surrounding air and are therefore not warmed by it.

The ocean is warmer than the atmosphere and therefore, not warmed by it. The ocean drives the temperature of the atmosphere, not the other way around.

Really? What an amazing thing to know. Expecially since wading in the surf of the Pacific Ocean off of Oregon, most days the water is colder than the air. The converse of that is that the colder air cannot cause the freezing of the ocean in the Arctic and Antarctic. You guys are such fucking dumb asses when it comes to simple logic.

When the water is warmer than the air, heat is transfered to the atmosphere. When the air is warming than the water, heat is transfered to the water. And when there is open water where there used to be year round ice, heat is transfered both to the water and the air.

When the sun warms the ground to a higher temperature than the air, the air is heated by the ground. The ground radiates long wave infrared, and the atmosphere, via GHGs, absorb a certain percentage of the energy. The more GHGs, the more energy absorbed.

 

[SwimExpert]

What the fuck are you talking about? It is a discussion about the last 150 years and perhaps the next 2,000.

Unless you're talking about something completely different than the rest of the folks here are talking about. That might explain a few things... ;-)

So climate change has only bee happening for the past 150 years?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXSh7EHkpk]The Joker - and I thought my jokes were bad - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Abraham3]

You're stupid. But you're not THAT stupid.

 

[SwimExpert]

While you were reading the whole thing, did you happen to read the professional description of the people they actually surveyed in that study - that is, what they all actually did for a living?

Professional engineers and geoscientists.

Professional engineers and geoscientists WHO ALL WORK FOR THE CANADIAN OIL INDUSTRY.

Did you think no one here knew that? That "survey" came up months ago. It's complete crap. About as accurate as a survey of Senator Inhofe's ENTIRE staff.

Excuse you. You're the one who keeps talking about scientists all say this and scientists all say that. And you're also the one who refuses to even consider the idea, when presented, that maybe, just maybe, those sounding the AGW alarms "agree" with the nonsense because of the fact that their continued funding is based on their "finding" man made global warming. So don't give me this crap now.

 

[mamooth]

You said something with a low heat capacity (air) can't heat something with a high heat capacity (water).

No, that's not what he said.

Of course it is. When will you learn that lying is pointless when the words are right there? Here's the full post, no context omitted.

Compare the heat capacity of the ocean to the heat capacity of the atmosphere and tell me how stupid one must be to believe that the atmosphere can heat the oceans.

Now I know that, being a 'tard, you can't discuss science, so all you can do is play the loyal little toadie, and try to help out your cult buddies with dogpile tactics. But it just won't work. You need to at least outnumber me by 10:1 for your bullshit avalanche tactics to start being effective.

 

[mamooth]

just maybe, those sounding the AGW alarms "agree" with the nonsense because of the fact that their continued funding is based on their "finding" man made global warming.

Since that's a 'tard conspiracy theory that is refuted by both common sense (any scientist could instantly double their salary by shilling for denialism) and by how the grant system works (scientists get zilch for getting a grant), of course we reject it.

You also need to understand that just because you're a partisan cultist who doesn't possess a moral that isn't relative, it doesn't mean everyone thinks like you. Stop projecting your own way of thinking on to decent people. We are not like you, in that we won't lie for money or for TheParty.

 

[westwall]

And UV can penetrate meters deep into the ocean to warm them. Long wave IR can only penetrate MICRONS deep. Which means that IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the oceans, which means IR CAN NOT raise the heat of the planet.

Case. Closed.

So the IR is absorbed in the first millimeter of the oceans, but doesn't heat the oceans. Apparently, that first millimeter of the ocean isn't part of the ocean. Or something like that.

Yep, it's more of that magical denialist physics. They're not very good at understanding heat flow in the real world. Though that bit isn't particularly important, since the ocean gets very little heat in the IR bands.

Real world. The ocean absorbs most the energy it gets from the sun in the visible wavelengths, and the ocean generally is warmer than the atmosphere. The denialists manage to get that much right.

Then they start failing. They don't fathom that heat transfer _out_ of the ocean is mainly based on delta-T between ocean and air. Higher air temps, lower delta_T, less heat out, ocean keeps more heat. Hence the net result is that warming air temps warm the oceans, even if air temps are still lower than ocean temps.

Not millimeter, admiral, MICRONS. Look it up. Then look up how convection works.

 

[SwimExpert]

Really? What an amazing thing to know. Expecially since wading in the surf of the Pacific Ocean off of Oregon, most days the water is colder than the air. The converse of that is that the colder air cannot cause the freezing of the ocean in the Arctic and Antarctic. You guys are such fucking dumb asses when it comes to simple logic.

When the water is warmer than the air, heat is transfered to the atmosphere. When the air is warming than the water, heat is transfered to the water. And when there is open water where there used to be year round ice, heat is transfered both to the water and the air.

When the sun warms the ground to a higher temperature than the air, the air is heated by the ground. The ground radiates long wave infrared, and the atmosphere, via GHGs, absorb a certain percentage of the energy. The more GHGs, the more energy absorbed.

Oh geez, I'm not sure where to start with this steaming pile of stupid. Eh, here goes nothing, I suppose....

Alright, let me first ask you a question: What is the temperature of the air in Oregon "most days"? Let's take today, for example. What's the temperature there today? According to weather.com the current temperature is 28F. That's below freezing. Is the ocean frozen? No? Okay, then the ocean is definitely more the air temperature.

Moving on, there is a difference between heat and temperature. Admittedly, his wording was bad when he said "warmer." What he meant was that the air contains less heat than the ocean. The actual temperature of the atmosphere is variant, as it the temperature of the ocean. But the total amount of heat in the ocean is much greater than that of the air.

Does heat transfer from the atmosphere to the ocean, and vise versa? Of course it does. But how much of the ocean's heat comes from the atmosphere is the real question. The answer is: very little, probably a negligible amount.

Water has a high specific heat capacity, and as a result stores a great deal of heat. In fact, water has one of the highest heat capacities of any known non elemental substances. It's no wonder that atmospheric water is responsible for 75% of all greenhouse effects.

 

[SwimExpert]

Since that's a 'tard conspiracy theory

*yawn*

If it is, than so is what Abby said. So go complain to him.

 

[SwimExpert]

Because I can read the letters "PhD". I can read the number of citations. I can read the number of other peer-reviewed publications. I can read the responses to this work from other climate scientists.

In other words, you simply accept what is fed to you and tastes good. Can't be bothered to apply any critical thinking.