14 Ways Obama Can Push Gun Control Without Congress

[Jarlaxle]

Wasn't that same thing done with cars to stop car theft?

With zero results.

Car theft dropped when electronic entry and ignition systems made traditional theft methods obsolete.

Yeah...now, they steal repo trucks. (Seriously.)

 

[Jarlaxle]

Why waste time with your right-wing dumbshit? I said with today's technology you can hid a serial number that can't be found and remove. If you don't believe something so simple, I don't care.

Son, you're a dumbfuck.

If law enforcement is provided the location, the public will have it within 72 hours.

72 hours? Dude, you are way too optimistic. 24, tops!

 

[RandallFlagg]

I was a Civil Engineering troop -- base infrastructure support. No USAF support troops are allowed to qualify on full auto. They teach us basic marksmanship...no Rambo stuff.

The wonderful thing about .223's is that they are incredibly accurate. Even a 5.56mm fired in the same weapon lacks the precision of of a .223 (all in my opinion)

Putting a .223 into full auto or even burst mode makes no sense, since you lose the precision of the rifle. I know that with my Mini-14, I will hit what I aim at - 100% of the time. Shot a buddy's M-4, and first off, it's inferior to the Mini-14 in general, but when toggled to burst, I couldn't hit shit with it. In semi, I did just fine.

The problem is not with the weapon, but with the shooter. I have the AC-556 Mini-14, which is an actual assault rifle, unlike 99% of the ones on the socialist's lists, which fires semi, three round and full auto and I can hit accurate goupings at 100 yards no problem. Even better with the M-16 though I don't own one of those, I do have an AR-15 and can still qualify USMC expert with it which would be firing at 200, 300 and 500 meters. It's all about practice and trigger control. If you can shoot accurately with your mini-14, with a bit of practice you can accurately fire mine on burst, or an M-4 on burst.

Before the liberals start to have heart palipatitions let me say for the record, I have the proper federal license to own this weapon and one other full auto weapon. Pain in the ass and expensive but anyone who can legally purchase a firearm, can legally purchase a fully automatic weapon as well if they're willing to pay the fees and fill out the paper work. At least you used to be able to, let's see what the facists have in store for us. Always wanted an M-2 but could never afford to pay the $20,000-$25,000 to buy one, now I'll probably never get the chance.

Honestly, from an old 11B's perspective, full auto (for the most part) is little more than a waste of ammunition. It's good for keeping the enemies head down, but little more than that. While in RVN, I had a buddy who was an 11E (Armor) and was a tank commander. They were issued old WWII .45 Cal "Grease guns" in case they had to "abandon ship". Pretty much worthless for anything, but they could lay down a nice base of fire if they had to deedee...

 

[Trakar]

The thing that concerns me with Obama's end-run around Congress is this: These laws only affect law-abiding citizens. Criminals couldn't care less about Obama or his ridiculous edicts...

And idiots, and we can always use a few more of those pulled off the streets.

For the most part, however, not much of this would strongly impact law-abiding citizens detrimentally. I certainly would advocate hard against universal firearm registration, and most outright bans, though I, personally, would have no real problem with limiting magazines to 7-10rds, and requiring special checks and licensing on full-auto (as there is currently). Likewise, due to concealability issues I have little problem with background checks and registering for handguns.

THe most important consideration for me right now, is that very few if any of these proposals would have done much of anything to stop any of the most egregious of the recent shooting incidents that are being used to whip a largely ignorant population into supporting such actions.

 

[jtpr312]

The wonderful thing about .223's is that they are incredibly accurate. Even a 5.56mm fired in the same weapon lacks the precision of of a .223 (all in my opinion)

Putting a .223 into full auto or even burst mode makes no sense, since you lose the precision of the rifle. I know that with my Mini-14, I will hit what I aim at - 100% of the time. Shot a buddy's M-4, and first off, it's inferior to the Mini-14 in general, but when toggled to burst, I couldn't hit shit with it. In semi, I did just fine.

The problem is not with the weapon, but with the shooter. I have the AC-556 Mini-14, which is an actual assault rifle, unlike 99% of the ones on the socialist's lists, which fires semi, three round and full auto and I can hit accurate goupings at 100 yards no problem. Even better with the M-16 though I don't own one of those, I do have an AR-15 and can still qualify USMC expert with it which would be firing at 200, 300 and 500 meters. It's all about practice and trigger control. If you can shoot accurately with your mini-14, with a bit of practice you can accurately fire mine on burst, or an M-4 on burst.

Before the liberals start to have heart palipatitions let me say for the record, I have the proper federal license to own this weapon and one other full auto weapon. Pain in the ass and expensive but anyone who can legally purchase a firearm, can legally purchase a fully automatic weapon as well if they're willing to pay the fees and fill out the paper work. At least you used to be able to, let's see what the facists have in store for us. Always wanted an M-2 but could never afford to pay the $20,000-$25,000 to buy one, now I'll probably never get the chance.

Honestly, from an old 11B's perspective, full auto (for the most part) is little more than a waste of ammunition. It's good for keeping the enemies head down, but little more than that. While in RVN, I had a buddy who was an 11E (Armor) and was a tank commander. They were issued old WWII .45 Cal "Grease guns" in case they had to "abandon ship". Pretty much worthless for anything, but they could lay down a nice base of fire if they had to deedee...

Well from an old 0311's perspective I agree, aimed fire is the way to go, it's a religion in the Corps, but yeah, there's definately a time and place to put as many rounds as you can, as fast as you can, down range. With that said though, 3rd burst with an M16 was quite effective and extremely accurate even at ranges over 300 meters. By the way thanks for your service. My old man did 6yrs in the USMC, then 5yrs in the Army, also 11B, and served from 67-69 with the Tropic Lighting.

 

[Politico]

Echo echo....I thought so.

 

[zonly1]

13. Create DOJ Unit to track Interstate weapons trafficking.

How did the DOJ do in the intercountry weapons tracking area?

Do right-wingers ever think before they open their mouths? If you have to create a DOJ unit to track interstate weapons trafficking, which is the ATF's job, why would there be an international DOJ unit? I don't know why a Department of Justice unit should be created to do the job of the ATF in tracking weapons trafficing, when their job is to prosecute a crime. Crimes are usually presecuted at the state level and not by the feds, unless it's really big.

Try using your brain before you spout out nonsense!

You mean really really big, like walking 3,000+ guns to Mexico, that kind of big. ATF did a fine job tracking them, didn't they? BTW ATF is an arm of the DOJ.

similiar to senator stevens...gun running is the plan and 3 Americans paid the price.
In the meantime we all are distracted.

 

[Dubya]

You might want to go back an read the series of post. My first response to you concerned your response to another poster, about how well the ATF did in the area of international trafficking, namely Fast and Furious. Now you feel it necessary to tell me something I mentioned earlier, that the ATF and FBI are investigative arms of DOJ, like I didn't know that. Sounds like your starting to figure it out. But I'll tell you what, you keep learning and maybe if your lucky I'll give you another lesson when you start showing your ignorance again. I say when because the one thing you have demonstrated, is you have an abundance of ignorance. Until then you have a great day out there in fantasy land.

You idiots have been told about fast and furious being a sting, but you don't want to believe it, because you just want to bitch. It's a common practice in law enforcement to actually allow a shipment to proceed so they can locate who gets it. Guns are bought in very small numbers, if not one at a time. Even when you have someone with a few weapons, if you bust him, someone takes his place. It doesn't bother me they were tracing where those weapons were sent, but it bothers you because Obama was President.

They weren't tracing SHIT!

Where do you get these erroneous ideas, anyway, the Maddow Blog?

Why, because you say so? The gun dealers themselves reported their involvement.

You're one of those whacked out conspiracy types.

How do you think the Drug Cartels get guns from America to Mexico? I know how it's done, but explain it in detail and no nonsense to impress your fellow lunatics.

 

[The Rabbi]

Serial numbers don't work, too easy to remove.




2nd serial number isn't needed because they are near impossible to remove.

OK, so you agree it is a stupid proposal.

What other proposals do you think would work to solve problems?

I think making it more difficult for criminals to remove the number is a good idea.

And I already posted the ones I thought sounded interesting.

You understand that
1) It is already virtually impossible to remove the number.
2) Having the number is really not very relevant for anything.
3) Adding another number will not accomplish what you think it will accomplish.

I didnt see your list. Please post again.

 

[AmyNation]

OK, so you agree it is a stupid proposal.

What other proposals do you think would work to solve problems?

I think making it more difficult for criminals to remove the number is a good idea.

And I already posted the ones I thought sounded interesting.

You understand that
1) It is already virtually impossible to remove the number.
2) Having the number is really not very relevant for anything.
3) Adding another number will not accomplish what you think it will accomplish.

I didnt see your list. Please post again.

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

I was pleasantly surprised by that list. There were several that weren't have bad ideas.

OK, which ones do you consider not half bad?

6,8,9,11,13,14- reject

The rest have possibility.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think making it more difficult for criminals to remove the number is a good idea.

And I already posted the ones I thought sounded interesting.

You understand that
1) It is already virtually impossible to remove the number.
2) Having the number is really not very relevant for anything.
3) Adding another number will not accomplish what you think it will accomplish.

I didnt see your list. Please post again.

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

OK, which ones do you consider not half bad?

6,8,9,11,13,14- reject

The rest have possibility.

It's not an opinion, dear. It's fact. Learn the difference.

Let's take up the next one: 6.
Make seller report details of sales to manufacturers. Now, manufacturers are not government agencies. They are private businesses. What good is accomplished by revealing private information to big corporations? I would think leftists would be opposed to corporatism, but here is a fine example.
But I would bet that 99% of trace requests result in useless information. I get a number of trace requests myself. Typically it is, "I received this gun from such and such distributor (they already know that) and I sold it on such and such a date to Mr. Joe Schmoe. Mr Schmoe is black, aged 57 and lives at this address." Now I happen to know that Mr Schmoe's gun got stolen 2 weeks ago because he came in and asked me about buying a replacement.
So what has the trace accomplished? Nothing. Big waste of time.

 

[AmyNation]

You understand that
1) It is already virtually impossible to remove the number.
2) Having the number is really not very relevant for anything.
3) Adding another number will not accomplish what you think it will accomplish.

I didnt see your list. Please post again.

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

6,8,9,11,13,14- reject

The rest have possibility.

It's not an opinion, dear. It's fact. Learn the difference.

Let's take up the next one: 6.
Make seller report details of sales to manufacturers. Now, manufacturers are not government agencies. They are private businesses. What good is accomplished by revealing private information to big corporations? I would think leftists would be opposed to corporatism, but here is a fine example.
But I would bet that 99% of trace requests result in useless information. I get a number of trace requests myself. Typically it is, "I received this gun from such and such distributor (they already know that) and I sold it on such and such a date to Mr. Joe Schmoe. Mr Schmoe is black, aged 57 and lives at this address." Now I happen to know that Mr Schmoe's gun got stolen 2 weeks ago because he came in and asked me about buying a replacement.
So what has the trace accomplished? Nothing. Big waste of time.

Yup, clearly because you say so makes it a fact

 

[The Rabbi]

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

It's not an opinion, dear. It's fact. Learn the difference.

Let's take up the next one: 6.
Make seller report details of sales to manufacturers. Now, manufacturers are not government agencies. They are private businesses. What good is accomplished by revealing private information to big corporations? I would think leftists would be opposed to corporatism, but here is a fine example.
But I would bet that 99% of trace requests result in useless information. I get a number of trace requests myself. Typically it is, "I received this gun from such and such distributor (they already know that) and I sold it on such and such a date to Mr. Joe Schmoe. Mr Schmoe is black, aged 57 and lives at this address." Now I happen to know that Mr Schmoe's gun got stolen 2 weeks ago because he came in and asked me about buying a replacement.
So what has the trace accomplished? Nothing. Big waste of time.

Yup, clearly because you say so makes it a fact

No, the fact that it is fact makes it fact. I just point that out.

 

[AmyNation]

Here's an ATF trace report for my state.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/trace-data/2006/2006-trace-data-ohio.pdf

ATF believes, and I agree, that the information is vital in tracking illegal guns.

 

[Katzndogz]

Wasn't that same thing done with cars to stop car theft?

With zero results.

Car theft dropped when electronic entry and ignition systems made traditional theft methods obsolete.

Yeah...now, they steal repo trucks. (Seriously.)

They steal cars using a flatbed. That's how my son's car was stolen. He ran out just in time to see his car rolling down the street on a flatbed hauler. Car theft is the number one crime in the US. If you don't believe it, try calling the police. They no longer come out. You can go down to the station and fill out a counter report to take to your insurance company. They'll put your stolen car on the list of all the other stolen cars.

What electronic entry and ignition systems have done, is increase carjacking. Car theft by tow is good late at night, but during the daylight, you can't beat taking the car while it's running from the driver, or at least with the driver close by.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not really...not at all hard if you know what to do.

It's virtually impossible.

The reason is that stamping causes metal fatigue which creates distortions that can be detected by laser topography, even if the serial number is ground off or acid washed. The Mexican drug cartels used acid to destroy the serial numbers on the guns Rahm Emanuel sold them in Fast and Furious - yet the FBI was still able to read them.

Destroying serial numbers is like outrunning the cops in a car chase; it looks good in the movies, but doesn't happen in real life.

 

[LibertyLemming]

With zero results.

Car theft dropped when electronic entry and ignition systems made traditional theft methods obsolete.

Yeah...now, they steal repo trucks. (Seriously.)

They steal cars using a flatbed. That's how my son's car was stolen. He ran out just in time to see his car rolling down the street on a flatbed hauler. Car theft is the number one crime in the US. If you don't believe it, try calling the police. They no longer come out. You can go down to the station and fill out a counter report to take to your insurance company. They'll put your stolen car on the list of all the other stolen cars.

What electronic entry and ignition systems have done, is increase carjacking. Car theft by tow is good late at night, but during the daylight, you can't beat taking the car while it's running from the driver, or at least with the driver close by.

That isn't true, but it doesn't really matter. Innovative things like electronic keys and other private industry smart solutions are great. Government force is never the answer and it never solves the problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

By Tim Murphy and Adam Serwer

By Thursday afternoon, it was clear that Vice President Joe Biden's charms weren't going to be enough to persuade the National Rifle Association to get on board with gun control legislation. Following a 95-minute summit at the White House, the NRA issued a curt press release vowing never to surrender. "We were disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the Second Amendment," the organization said. Instead, the nation's leading gun group pledged to take its "commitment and meaningful contributions" to Congress.

Fortunately for the White House, there's a Plan B. Just one day earlier, Biden signaled that the White House might take unilateral steps on gun control, noting "there are executive orders, executive action that can be taken." What those steps were, Biden wouldn't say. But we've got a pretty good idea. Here are 14 proposals, all endorsed by leading gun control advocates—and in some cases, even the NRA—that the White House and its subordinate agencies could push through on their own:

DETAILS: 14 Ways Obama Can Push Gun Control Without Congress | Mother Jones

Does it bother anyone else that leftists not only think they can and should have a "Plan B" to the US Constitution, but actually view it as routine and no big deal?

 

[The Rabbi]

Here's an ATF trace report for my state.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/trace-data/2006/2006-trace-data-ohio.pdf

ATF believes, and I agree, that the information is vital in tracking illegal guns.

What does it mean to "track illegal guns"? Guns used in crimes are ipso facto "illegal guns". Since probably the vast majority are stolen, what does tracking them do? And how would adding a second serial number prevent any of that?

 

[AmyNation]

Most illegal guns come from licensed dealers. Either through theft, straw man purchases or the small precent of dealers that are shady. Less than 15% of illegal guns are stolen from your average citizen, which is one of the reasons I don't favor gun restrictions on private citizens.