137 children removed from polygamist ranch

[Angel Heart]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/17/polygamy.custody/?iref=mpstoryview

Witness: Teens at ranch said any age OK to marry

SAN ANGELO, Texas (CNN) -- A child protection supervisor testified Thursday that she encountered several pregnant teen girls at a polygamist ranch who called each other "sister wives" and who believed it was acceptable to be "spiritually united" with a man at any age.

"It was the belief that no age was too young to be married," said Angie Voss, a supervisor for investigation at Texas Child Protective Services.

Thursday's hearing was aimed at determining who gets custody of more than 400 children who were removed from the YFZ (Yearning for Zion) Ranch in an April 4 raid. The hearing took longer than expected because of objections from some of the 350 attorneys representing the children.

Voss said about 130 of the children removed were under the age of 4 and that girls as young as 13 had conceived children at the ranch.

Boys were also removed from the ranch, Voss testified, because "I believe that the boys are groomed to be perpetrators."

"I was concerned," Voss said of her visit to the ranch. "It was a scary and intimidating environment. I was afraid. I saw men all over."

She said she saw men in a guard tower looking down on them as they entered the ranch, and men escorted the women to the schoolhouse for the interviews.

More...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/17/polygamy.custody/?iref=mpstoryview

What a crock of warmed over crap. Again all about not approving of the religion. The child service people already had made up their minds before they ever went and are now making excuses.

Ohh and exactly how does one prove they haven't been " grooming" the boys to be perps? That is code for the "religion" teaches them to do it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I just love this every time I read it. They have no real evidence of abuse and have taken these children from their parents and their environments and who cares for them?

Over the past two weeks, the agency has relied on volunteers to help feed the children, do their laundry and provide crafts and games for them.

Now lets ask how they SCREENED these volunteers and how they TRAINED them, shall we? Who is monitering these volunteers to ensure THEY are not abusing the children?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

A circus is hardly the word for it. Exactly why does a witness get to "suggest" a crime with no evidence?

By evening, only three witnesses had testified, including state child welfare investigator Angie Voss, who said women may have had children when they were minors, some as young as age 13.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just saw a TV clip that had a woman arrested in Colorado for making false accusation and guess who was involved in catching her? Texas Rangers. I wonder why? Maybe that explains why no 16 year old has been found and the supposed rapist hasn't been out of Arizona in a year at least.

 

[Gunny]

And that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. The Constitution is CLEAR on our rights when charged with a crime. The State MUST prove GUILT. We are ASSUMED INNOCENT until the State does so.

But not in Family Court and not with Social Services. They get to ASSUME your Guilty and then require YOU to prove your not. Sometimes with out ever being told what it is you supposedly did. As in this case. There are NO charges at all against the mothers and there are NO charges at all that anyone molested or abused any child under the age of 14 and the only supposed charge for the boys is " they were taught to be abusers".

Our legal system is in shambles because you and others do not mind that this crap goes on. This group is being persecuted not for crimes but for their religion. They are being persecuted because they live differently then the "norm".

Grace is a perfect example of what the social services and the courts think. Those kids have loving parents that keep them fed, housed and clean and clothed, yet she likens a compound that is immaculate to a third world shit hole.

I have no doubt that the courts will take these children away from their parents and it won't be because they are in any danger, it will be because they practice a religion the Courts do not like.

Again, it was YOU pointing out to me in another thread that people can be arrested, THEN charged, THEN kept in jail pending court.

Don't turn around pointing a finger at "me and others" as if the legal system being shambles is OUR fault when YOU are just as guilty and part and parcel to "us."

I said in so many words the system is how it is. I don't believe I qualified it wimt personal endorsement. "How it is" and "what I like" are not mutually inclusive. The former is actuality/reality while the latter while the latter is personal ideology.

I don't like the system and I don't like this church, if that clears it up any for you.

It is not however, unconstitutional to investigate alleged crimes. Religious communes never lead to anything good. Does Jim Jones have to murder a congressman then pass out the Kool-Aid before a crime is committed?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Again, it was YOU pointing out to me in another thread that people can be arrested, THEN charged, THEN kept in jail pending court.

Don't turn around pointing a finger at "me and others" as if the legal system being shambles is OUR fault when YOU are just as guilty and part and parcel to "us."

I said in so many words the system is how it is. I don't believe I qualified it wimt personal endorsement. "How it is" and "what I like" are not mutually inclusive. The former is actuality/reality while the latter while the latter is personal ideology.

I don't like the system and I don't like this church, if that clears it up any for you.

It is not however, unconstitutional to investigate alleged crimes. Religious communes never lead to anything good. Does Jim Jones have to murder a congressman then pass out the Kool-Aid before a crime is committed?

Bullshit, this sect has been around over 100 years. I doubt they are going to suddenly all commit suicide.

And agian for the slow.... THEY have no evidence. Never did. Their chief witness can't even say more then " maybe" or " I believe" or " I think". When was that considered proof?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

The latest spin is now some of the mother are really underage girls pretending to be adults. And I love how " we think" some girls gave birth as young as 13 with no names and no evidence is admissable in court. If they did, trot them out... they do after all have said girls in custody. Guilty by innuendo is illegal. You don't get to remove 400 children because " we think" after 2 weeks is the extent of the evidence against the families.

 

[BrianH]

Bullshit, this sect has been around over 100 years. I doubt they are going to suddenly all commit suicide.

And agian for the slow.... THEY have no evidence. Never did. Their chief witness can't even say more then " maybe" or " I believe" or " I think". When was that considered proof?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

The latest spin is now some of the mother are really underage girls pretending to be adults. And I love how " we think" some girls gave birth as young as 13 with no names and no evidence is admissable in court. If they did, trot them out... they do after all have said girls in custody. Guilty by innuendo is illegal. You don't get to remove 400 children because " we think" after 2 weeks is the extent of the evidence against the families.

Well they have records indentifying girls that have given birth as youg as thirteen. So there's your evidence. The girls are also complying with law enforcement by telling them things that their husbands do to them. Notice you haven't seen the husbands at all??? Hm....I wonder why? Cause they know they're in deep.
Little known fact, one house-hold abuses one child, all of their children get taken away. This is no different. Have you heard what the sect's leader does to infants after they're born.
Oh, and they had your favorite informant on TV yesterday and let her explain that she used to be married to the leader, and explained what he did to her first born. Let me tell you:

It's called BREAKING

First, he spanks the infant until it begins cry. As it's crying, he holds the baby under a running facet, to simulate drowning. THen, he spanks the baby again, then holds it under the water. This cycle continues until the INFANT is so exhausted that it can no longer cry. It can't even muster the strength to shed tears.

If you want to defend scum of the earth, you go right ahead. Show's what type of person you are. They have plenty of evidence against this group....considering their leader was a fugitive from the law for a few years and is charged with rape, marriage of minors, abuse,....the list continues.

You can't believe a thing those women members of the sect say, they are so disconnected from reality that it's not even funny. They believe their in a Heaven on Earth. Yeah, a Heaven that water-tortures babies. You watch the interviews of these women, and you see how they're acting.

You have no clue dude, these women were brainwashed by their mothers, who were brainwashed by their husbands-fathers. These men aren't religious at all, many of them are registered sex-offenders. They've come up with a system to gather a ranch full of women where the gender ratio is like 1 male for every 100 females, and tied it under the institute of religion. I'm not buying it. If you want to be ignorant and naive, than go ahead. If you can sit by and watch children be abused, then go ahead and do that. Even if the law enforcement weren't going strictly by the book, as long as it keeps these kids from being abused, I'm all for it.

 

[Ravi]

You can't believe a thing those women members of the sect say, they are so disconnected from reality that it's not even funny

Bingo. Nice post, Brian.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well they have records indentifying girls that have given birth as youg as thirteen. So there's your evidence. The girls are also complying with law enforcement by telling them things that their husbands do to them. Notice you haven't seen the husbands at all??? Hm....I wonder why? Cause they know they're in deep.
Little known fact, one house-hold abuses one child, all of their children get taken away. This is no different. Have you heard what the sect's leader does to infants after they're born.
Oh, and they had your favorite informant on TV yesterday and let her explain that she used to be married to the leader, and explained what he did to her first born. Let me tell you:

It's called BREAKING

First, he spanks the infant until it begins cry. As it's crying, he holds the baby under a running facet, to simulate drowning. THen, he spanks the baby again, then holds it under the water. This cycle continues until the INFANT is so exhausted that it can no longer cry. It can't even muster the strength to shed tears.

If you want to defend scum of the earth, you go right ahead. Show's what type of person you are. They have plenty of evidence against this group....considering their leader was a fugitive from the law for a few years and is charged with rape, marriage of minors, abuse,....the list continues.

You can't believe a thing those women members of the sect say, they are so disconnected from reality that it's not even funny. They believe their in a Heaven on Earth. Yeah, a Heaven that water-tortures babies. You watch the interviews of these women, and you see how they're acting.

You have no clue dude, these women were brainwashed by their mothers, who were brainwashed by their husbands-fathers. These men aren't religious at all, many of them are registered sex-offenders. They've come up with a system to gather a ranch full of women where the gender ratio is like 1 male for every 100 females, and tied it under the institute of religion. I'm not buying it. If you want to be ignorant and naive, than go ahead. If you can sit by and watch children be abused, then go ahead and do that. Even if the law enforcement weren't going strictly by the book, as long as it keeps these kids from being abused, I'm all for it.

They do NOT have any evidence, rad what the witness said, she did not provide any evidence she said " we believe" Go ahead trot out these girls. READ the story.

 

[BrianH]

They do NOT have any evidence, rad what the witness said, she did not provide any evidence she said " we believe" Go ahead trot out these girls. READ the story.

I've read the story smartness, why don't you WATCH the news, this is still going on, and they're gathering more evidence every day. The informant was a former sect member who was married to the leader of that branch of the sect. She's told the authorities what he'd done to her children as well as her. The informant isn't simply just some person off the street, it's a former sect member of that exact branch. They have found record/family trees in a safe that proves underage girls as young as thirteen have given brith. The guys that run these operations are some of the most disgraceful human beings of the Earth. Even if law enforcement doesn't go exactly by the book, which I'm sure they are, as long as they put these scumbags out of business, than it's ok with me.

These are not religious guys by any means, their pedifiles and womanizers who have found a way to beat the system under a cloak of a religion.

 

[dewclaw]

anybody see the pics of Jeffs hanging on the wall in each of the dorm rooms, no other pictures, just Jeffs. And then in the closets they all have the same cult uniforms hanging. Just like in North Korea.

 

[Angel Heart]

I noticed that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

anybody see the pics of Jeffs hanging on the wall in each of the dorm rooms, no other pictures, just Jeffs. And then in the closets they all have the same cult uniforms hanging. Just like in North Korea.

So what? Does the State now get to define abuse as what parents require their children to wear or what pictures they put on their walls? Another attack against nothing more then displeasure at the Sect, nothing illegal, immoral or wrong about any of it.

Ohh and the State case gets weaker by the day but guess what? I bet the State takes the children.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I've read the story smartness, why don't you WATCH the news, this is still going on, and they're gathering more evidence every day. The informant was a former sect member who was married to the leader of that branch of the sect. She's told the authorities what he'd done to her children as well as her. The informant isn't simply just some person off the street, it's a former sect member of that exact branch. They have found record/family trees in a safe that proves underage girls as young as thirteen have given brith. The guys that run these operations are some of the most disgraceful human beings of the Earth. Even if law enforcement doesn't go exactly by the book, which I'm sure they are, as long as they put these scumbags out of business, than it's ok with me.

These are not religious guys by any means, their pedifiles and womanizers who have found a way to beat the system under a cloak of a religion.

Other then the leader provide evidence any of the men at the ranch are sex offenders. Seems if that were true the State would be harping on it right off the bat. More lies from you.

 

[AllieBaba]

So far I've heard it's just a child welfare investigation. Nobody has been charged with anything. The most "heinous" of all the offenses I've heard is the cops barged in there and were appalled to see 16 y.o. pregnant girls.

Why don't they harrange the douchebags who get 16 y.o. girls pregnant EVERY DAY in other places in the US? Why don't they flood abortion clinics where there are 16 y.o. pregnant girls, and take those girls into custody?

Because that's not what it's about. It's about people not wanting these people to follow their own religion.

 

[jillian]

It's not abuse for 16 year old girls to have sex or be pregnant if the partner was age appropriate.

It IS abuse for a 16 year old girl to be used as a breeding machine by a 50 year old pedophile.

See the difference?

 

[AllieBaba]

I'd just like to know why the same scrutiny isn't applied to girls in abortion clinics, and who's making sure their partners are age appropriate.

Besides which, in many states (and we've been over this before) it doesn't matter what age the partners are.

 

[jillian]

That's almost a response...

keep trying. We're rooting for you.

 

[AllieBaba]

We who? You have something in your pocket?

Or is that the royal "we"?

 

[jillian]

We who? You have something in your pocket?

Or is that the royal "we"?

Good on ya using my line about the mouse.