137 children removed from polygamist ranch

[Ravi]

My question: Why was this place never raided beforehand, given what was known about their practices?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The compound is about 200 miles west on I10 from San Antonio. The FBI had been tracking Jeffs for some time before they snagged him last year. He was able to elude several attempts, traveled with 5 or 6 well armed guards, also flew from one fundamentalist compound to another. He never stayed in one place very long. From what I gathered, and there was a huge story 2 years ago in the San Antonio Express News of the compound they were building, the FBI didn't want another Waco or Ruby Ridge on their hands. I read a great book by Krakauer called "Under the Banner of Heaven" and it goes into great detail of the sects that have broken off from the LDS. Basically, they'll move into a small town, eventually outnumber the local population, elect themselves to the city council and govern that area, infiltration, if you will. This is what they were doing in Eldorado, TX.

About 5 years I was traveling through Colorado City, Az, southern border of Utah/AZ, and stopped off in the town to get some gas. Well, I happened to ask the attendant a few questions about the local economy and what they did for a living then went on my way. About a mile out of town a local police car started tailing me and this went on for about 30 miles. Needless to say, I was a little worried. They don't care too much for outsiders.

 

[Swamp Fox]

That place was known about for years and the state didn't do crap. Finally a reporter from Channel 3 in Phoenix started making waves and then suddenly it's like the town sprang up out of nowhere and the state was all over it.

 

[Annie]

Getting rough:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

Conflict escalates at polygamist retreat

By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago

Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst."

If no agreement is reached with sect leaders, authorities will forcibly remove the sect's followers "as peaceably as possible," Allison Palmer, a prosecutor in Tom Green County, told the San Angelo Standard-Times.

Medical workers are being sent "in case this were to a go in a way that no one wants," Palmer said. Law enforcers are "preparing for the worst," she said.

"Within the religion that we have encountered, their place of worship is very special to them," Palmer said. "It appears to be of great concern to them if a person from outside their congregation even attempts to step inside their place of worship."

A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat, run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man.

Court documents the girl had a baby eight months ago, when she was 15.

 

[Ravi]

The compound is about 200 miles west on I10 from San Antonio. The FBI had been tracking Jeffs for some time before they snagged him last year. He was able to elude several attempts, traveled with 5 or 6 well armed guards, also flew from one fundamentalist compound to another. He never stayed in one place very long. From what I gathered, and there was a huge story 2 years ago in the San Antonio Express News of the compound they were building, the FBI didn't want another Waco or Ruby Ridge on their hands. I read a great book by Krakauer called "Under the Banner of Heaven" and it goes into great detail of the sects that have broken off from the LDS. Basically, they'll move into a small town, eventually outnumber the local population, elect themselves to the city council and govern that area, infiltration, if you will. This is what they were doing in Eldorado, TX.

About 5 years I was traveling through Colorado City, Az, southern border of Utah/AZ, and stopped off in the town to get some gas. Well, I happened to ask the attendant a few questions about the local economy and what they did for a living then went on my way. About a mile out of town a local police car started tailing me and this went on for about 30 miles. Needless to say, I was a little worried. They don't care too much for outsiders.

I read that book. Very disturbing.

I don't think your reasoning is correct. If they were afraid to raid the place two years ago they'd be afraid to raid it now. It isn't as if what's going on is a surprise to anyone.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I could be wrong but the FBI had nothing on the FLDS on building that compound. They couldn't just go storming. Actually, its better that the FBI isn't rushing in. We don't need dead burned children at the hands of the govt again.

 

[Gunny]

Associated Press

ELDORADO, Texas - Law enforcement agents got access to an enormous temple on the grounds of a polygamist compound, but by Sunday morning they still had not found a 16-year-old girl whose initial report of abuse led to the raid.

"There were some tense moments last night, but everything has remained calm and peaceful and they are continuing their search," said Allison Palmer, a prosecutor from a nearby county handling the case, early Sunday.

Palmer said it was unclear whether the girl who made the report was among the nearly 200 women and children taken Friday and Saturday from the compound built by polygamist leader Warren Jeffs.

A busload of women were seen talking to law enforcement and a lawyer at a civic center early Sunday.

Palmer said Child Protective Services was still trying to identify the 16-year-old, and it wasn't clear if she was among those being interviewed or was even in the area.

State troopers armed with a search warrant raided the compound on Friday to look for evidence of a marriage between the girl, who allegedly had a baby at 15, and 50-year-old Dale Barlow.

Under Texas law, girls younger than 16 cannot marry, even with parental approval.

more ... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23958307/

Why on Earth would ANY man want more than one wife? One is enough to drive any normal human being

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Why on Earth would ANY man want more than one wife? One is enough to drive any normal human being

Lol!! One is definitely enough and I can't remember the last time that I came out on top in an argument so I just gave it up and now only agree. It's pretty close to being de-balled. If I had two I'd probably be singing for the Vienna Choir Boys.

 

[Shogun]

Where are the thumpers at to tell us that anything clarified as an aspect of a personal religion, THRUST into kids or not, is protected bythe first amendment?

Where is RGS to tell us that there are no such thing as mormon polygamists for that matter?

 

[Angel Heart]

What many forget in this topic is the numbers game of it all. Normal population has about 50/50 male/female. What happens to all the males that don't have mates?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/09/america/polygamy.php?WT.mc_id=rssfrontpage

Polygamous sect ousts boys for worldly vices
By Erik Eckholm Published: September 9, 2007

ST. GEORGE, Utah : When his parents discovered his secret stash of DVDs, including the "Die Hard" series and comedies, they burned them and gave him an ultimatum: Stop watching movies or leave the family and church for good.

With television and the Internet also banned as wicked, along with short-sleeve shirts - a sign of immodesty - and staring at girls, let alone dating them, Woodrow made the wrenching decision to go.

Ten months ago, with only a seventh-grade education and a suitcase of clothes, he was thrown into an unfamiliar world he had been taught to fear.

Over the past six years, hundreds of teenage males have been expelled or felt compelled to leave the polygamous settlement that straddles Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah.

Disobedience is usually the reason given for expulsion, but former sect members and state legal officials say the exodus of males also remedies a huge imbalance in the marriage market. (The expulsion of girls is rarer.) Members of the sect believe that to reach eternal salvation, men are supposed to have at least three wives.

MORE...

 

[Angel Heart]

401 children and 133 women so far removed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346959,00.html

 

[Ravi]

It's mind boggling. These girls must be seriously brainwashed.

 

[Angel Heart]

Oh beyond anything we could ever imagine. This isn't like the Waco group. It's multi-generational. Their grandparents lived the way they have. They have to be deprogrammed. Some will never be possible, others will do wonderfully, most will do OK. I think that LDS should step in and help with this. It would be the easiest way to move them into main stream society. Sadly LDS as a whole will get the stigma of this tagged on to them. This group is NOT LDS. They are a group that broke off over 100 yrs ago.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Where are the thumpers at to tell us that anything clarified as an aspect of a personal religion, THRUST into kids or not, is protected bythe first amendment?

Where is RGS to tell us that there are no such thing as mormon polygamists for that matter?

Once again RETARD they are NOT part of the Mormon Church. Read the article dumbshit. They left the church over 100 YEARS AGO.

Using your logic every Baptist in America is also a Catholic. After all they all originally came from the Catholic religion.

 

[Shogun]

Once again RETARD they are NOT part of the Mormon Church. Read the article dumbshit. They left the church over 100 YEARS AGO.

Using your logic every Baptist in America is also a Catholic. After all they all originally came from the Catholic religion.

it's the exact same dogma, poncho. You pray to a different god than they do? You have a different origin of your faith? Baptists and Catholics ARE still christians, no? Lutherans are STILL, you guessed it, despite the actions of Martin Luther. Broken off a hundred years ago or not, do they carry the same tenants of your mormon faith in a north American testement of jebus christ? Call it a cult if you wanna but it probably won't be ironic that a mormon calls another christian faith by that label this side of Romney's presidential efforts, eh?

 

[Angel Heart]

It's mind boggling. These girls must be seriously brainwashed.

It's not just the girls... It's all of them. They all have been taught this crap from the day they where born. Unlike the Branch Davidians where they met this guy or other followers and followed. They ate, drank and lived this crazy lifestyle their entire lives, so did their parents and their grandparents. It's going to take MAJOR deprogramming. I hope that LDS steps up to the challenge to help bring them forward 100 yrs.

 

[AllieBaba]

Where are the thumpers at to tell us that anything clarified as an aspect of a personal religion, THRUST into kids or not, is protected bythe first amendment?

Where is RGS to tell us that there are no such thing as mormon polygamists for that matter?

See, that's the difference between "fact" and "fiction".

You think bible thumpers, as you so graciously call them, think this is okay. Of course they don't, and there are any numbers of biblical references to back that up.

So the "bible thumpers" are on the side of the law, as they generally are, on this one.

 

[Shogun]

See, that's the difference between "fact" and "fiction".

You think bible thumpers, as you so graciously call them, think this is okay. Of course they don't, and there are any numbers of biblical references to back that up.

So the "bible thumpers" are on the side of the law, as they generally are, on this one.

are we talking old or new testement? We can spar with scripture if you wanna.


Indeed, when it comes to marginalized mormons of COURSE the christian populace doesn't mind validating the treatment of polygamists.. I similarly don't find it surprising that the christian population turns their collective attention from Jahovas Witnesses who also enjoy the cult status too. BUT, let the federal or state government have somethign to say about thumpers who let their kid die for the sake of prayer while scorning meds and see how you respond to government interaction within the church.

 

[AllieBaba]

NT, of course. Jesus fulfilled the law. We no longer have to maintain the strict law of the OT to attain heaven.

I'm sure you already know that, though, biblical scholar that you are.

 

[AllieBaba]

are we talking old or new testement? We can spar with scripture if you wanna.


Indeed, when it comes to marginalized mormons of COURSE the christian populace doesn't mind validating the treatment of polygamists.. I similarly don't find it surprising that the christian population turns their collective attention from Jahovas Witnesses who also enjoy the cult status too. BUT, let the federal or state government have somethign to say about thumpers who let their kid die for the sake of prayer while scorning meds and see how you respond to government interaction within the church.

How did I respond?

Oh, I didn't. I do find it interesting that a man who kicks his girlfriend's child and kills it can't be charged with "murder" as there was no conscious "intent" to kill the child...but parents who believe in faith healing as opposed to, say, "holistic" healing, can be charged with murder.