11 Year Old Girl Is Pregnant, Sparks Abortion Debate

[Esmeralda]

Her own doctors have said that the pregnancy is high risk.

My then 40 year old wife's pregnancy was designated "high risk". The physician attending the initial ultrasound quite emphatically pointed out Downs Syndrome indicators. He advised us to discuss our "options".

"High risk" pregnancies these days are most certainly survivable.

BTW, Ms. N., just who is "at risk" here?

It appears that any compassion you may have for children begins at the vaginal ejection. And nothing prior.

This isn't a discussion about trading a life for a life, it's a discussion about the Liberal ideology as it pertains to decisive rights. And I'm not shy in advocating decisive rights for those not yet able to exert those rights.

i am pro-life but this is the case of an 11 y.o. who has been raped and whose doctors say her life is in danger.

I once knew someone who had gotten pregnant at 11 and had a child at 12. She was the victim of rape/molestation by a relative, uncle. I knew this woman as an adult. She was really messed up in the head because of this experience. It is very wrong to force a child of that age to go through with a pregnancy; when all of that happened to her, abortion was illegal in the States; as well, I think she came from a very much lower class background and didn't know she was pregnant until well along, and no one knew how to deal with it at that time. All in all, as the authorities know about this pregnancy of the girl in Chile, they should end it as the child is in danger physically, mentally and emotionally. Also, the baby is likely to have problems. That woman's child ended up with mental and physical disabilities. It was just a tragedy for everyone.

 

[FA_Q2]

A child conceived out of rape is DEFINITELY different than an accidental pregnancy.

Sorry you missed the difference.

I am sorry that you seem to think that the value of one’s life is determined by the circumstances that led to your conception. The very idea is pretty strange if you ask me but I doubt that you can even get passed the exterior debate about abortion here as most cannot. The subject itself is too emotionally charged. Like I said before though, I support the right to choose; I just do not need to weigh the value of an unborn child against other unborn children to justify that position to myself. The decision to abort lies with the mother and the reasons for choosing such are entirely irrelevant.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Gosh, I didn't know abortion came with so many qualifiers.

My wife and I were ready to accept a Down's child into our lives. How could that be any more difficult?

So.....................if your 11 year old was raped by some idiot, you're cool with her carrying the child to full term and having the child, and then raising not only your daughter, but also the child that was brought about by unfortunate circumstances?

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Oh, I think that you failed to mention the meat of Mr. H's position. He does not accept the abortion option for ANYBODY's family, because it offends his personal standards of what is right and wrong.

 

[FA_Q2]

So.....................if your 11 year old was raped by some idiot, you're cool with her carrying the child to full term and having the child, and then raising not only your daughter, but also the child that was brought about by unfortunate circumstances?

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Oh, I think that you failed to mention the meat of Mr. H's position. He does not accept the abortion option for ANYBODY's family, because it offends his personal standards of what is right and wrong.

Oh no, I did not miss that. The posts in question were not challenging that though. Instead, they were challenging if he would be okay with this situation if it were his daughter. As you can see, here we are a page later still droning on about that. It is a bad way to turn the debate in that it only servers to make the case personal rather than logical. You can’t tell a person that there personal convictions are wrong because your personal conviction can’t be wrong; they are personal. We can argue very well though that your personal convictions cannot and should not be applied to others. The abortion debate has always belonged in the realm of rights, control and safety. When you start making this about personal decisions we end up going nowhere.

We don’t need to go there for the abortion debate.

 

[earlycuyler]

Well I suppose they could eventually do a C-section.

Should such a young child be put through major surgery at such a young age?

I think not.

An abortion is not like having a mole removed. She is also in a third world shit hole. If she were wealthy she would have gotten an RU486 pill and it would have been done and over. As it is, she will likely die from this how ever it go's.

 

[earlycuyler]

Gosh, I didn't know abortion came with so many qualifiers.

My wife and I were ready to accept a Down's child into our lives. How could that be any more difficult?

So.....................if your 11 year old was raped by some idiot, you're cool with her carrying the child to full term and having the child, and then raising not only your daughter, but also the child that was brought about by unfortunate circumstances?

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

There is one huge difference, the unborne child doesn't have a say either way.

 

[earlycuyler]

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Actually, I DO believe there is a difference of a child resulting from rape, because not only does the mother have a permanent memory of what happened to her from the rape (i.e. the child), but because of the circumstances regarding the conception, she is more likely to end up resenting the child, which could lead to child abuse (or worse).

Speculation on your part, and worth nothing.

Gross speculation on his part. Lots of children are the product of rape. Many get adopted, many are raised by their mothers just fine. I find it odd, all this talk about minorities, and protecting those with no voice, yet those who scream the loudest advocate killing children who have done nothing. Just scramble them up and suck them out because the mother may not like them, or won't be able to hit the clubs or what ever. Life s become so cheap thees days.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not speculation on my part.

I became an orphan at age 8, and most family members (with the exception of my Grandparents) resented the fact that I was there. Also, I was a foster child for around 5 years (and the foster kids, as well as the wife resented me), and know how it feels.

You may call it speculation, but I know what it's like to be resented by an entire family. Do you?

Yet I suspect you would not wish your mother had killed you.

 

[earlycuyler]

Quick question Mr. H........................

Hypothetically speaking, and no, I'm not talking about anyone's family.............................

Say that YOU had an 11 year old daughter, and she was raped, and that rape resulted in pregnancy.

Would YOU want your 11 year old child to carry the baby to full term?

That's a stupid hypo, but if it were my kid, and its her ass on the line what ever she said gos.

 

[Vandalshandle]

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Oh, I think that you failed to mention the meat of Mr. H's position. He does not accept the abortion option for ANYBODY's family, because it offends his personal standards of what is right and wrong.

Oh no, I did not miss that. The posts in question were not challenging that though. Instead, they were challenging if he would be okay with this situation if it were his daughter. As you can see, here we are a page later still droning on about that. It is a bad way to turn the debate in that it only servers to make the case personal rather than logical. You can’t tell a person that there personal convictions are wrong because your personal conviction can’t be wrong; they are personal. We can argue very well though that your personal convictions cannot and should not be applied to others. The abortion debate has always belonged in the realm of rights, control and safety. When you start making this about personal decisions we end up going nowhere.

We don’t need to go there for the abortion debate.

It is a personal matter, whenever anyone wants to restrict my rights based on their morals.

To be even more specific, if anyone does not believe in abortion, but acknowledges that everyone should have the right to a choice, I don't even have a debate, or issue to discuss at all. That is NOT the position that I have read on this thread by most of those that are opposed to this child having an abortion.

 

[FA_Q2]

It is a personal matter, whenever anyone wants to restrict my rights based on their morals.

To be even more specific, if anyone does not believe in abortion, but acknowledges that everyone should have the right to a choice, I don't even have a debate, or issue to discuss at all. That is NOT the position that I have read on this thread by most of those that are opposed to this child having an abortion.

You are right. That has nothing to do with my statement though. I was simply stating that we should have this debate without asking questions like ‘what would you do if it was your daughter’ because what you are going to do with your daughter is irrelevant to the rights that my daughter and I have. That road only leads to bickering without dealing in actual facts and reality.

Your daughter (or his or anyone) has no bearing on my rights.

 

[S.J.]

Actually, I DO believe there is a difference of a child resulting from rape, because not only does the mother have a permanent memory of what happened to her from the rape (i.e. the child), but because of the circumstances regarding the conception, she is more likely to end up resenting the child, which could lead to child abuse (or worse).

Speculation on your part, and worth nothing.

Not speculation on my part.

I became an orphan at age 8, and most family members (with the exception of my Grandparents) resented the fact that I was there. Also, I was a foster child for around 5 years (and the foster kids, as well as the wife resented me), and know how it feels.

You may call it speculation, but I know what it's like to be resented by an entire family. Do you?

So, you would have rather been aborted?

 

[Mertex]

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Actually, I DO believe there is a difference of a child resulting from rape, because not only does the mother have a permanent memory of what happened to her from the rape (i.e. the child), but because of the circumstances regarding the conception, she is more likely to end up resenting the child, which could lead to child abuse (or worse).

That is a difference for the MOTHER, not the child. I noted that on my original post as well. The reality is the child themselves did nothing and is no different than any other child.

It is different from any other child in that it was not conceived in love, as most children should be.
If the mother was raped, neither did the mother (do anything).

I support the right to choose and understand why someone would want to abort after being raped BUT that does not make it the right or best choice. There are others as well, adoption being chief among those, if you are not capable of raising a child connived in that manner.

Nobody that I know says that abortion is right or the best choice, but neither is rape nor incest (for creating a child). Most that support choice are saying that it is the mother's decision to make, not anyone else, and certainly not the government.

All I was pointing out is the rather inane idea that somehow there is a difference from a child conceved in rape vs. conceived in any other way.

Well, FYI, there is a difference. A child conceived by rape is certainly not one the mother would choose, although some women may want to go ahead and carry it to delivery and some would even consider keeping it, but it is their choice, not anyone else's.

 

[Mertex]

My god, he has answered the question several times. How hard is the concept to understand?

Seriously, it is not that difficult to understand. For some reason, you all seem to think that there is a difference if the child was conceived in rape. Guess what, there are no horns on that kids head. There is nothing different about that child than there is any other child in the world. Raising them would be no different than raising any other child that was not a planned conception (the vast majority).

What would take a great deal of fortitude is actually on the one that has to carry and live with the child as a reminder of the rape. THAT would be quite difficult. What is the answer to that conundrum though, I don’t know. Abortion might be an option but clearly Mr. H does not believe in that option for his family and, if I am not mistaken, he has made that clear.

Oh, I think that you failed to mention the meat of Mr. H's position. He does not accept the abortion option for ANYBODY's family, because it offends his personal standards of what is right and wrong.

Oh no, I did not miss that. The posts in question were not challenging that though. Instead, they were challenging if he would be okay with this situation if it were his daughter. As you can see, here we are a page later still droning on about that. It is a bad way to turn the debate in that it only servers to make the case personal rather than logical. You can’t tell a person that there personal convictions are wrong because your personal conviction can’t be wrong; they are personal. We can argue very well though that your personal convictions cannot and should not be applied to others. The abortion debate has always belonged in the realm of rights, control and safety. When you start making this about personal decisions we end up going nowhere.

We don’t need to go there for the abortion debate.

But it is a personal matter. That is why pro-choice leaves it up to the mother. Those that are anti-abortion for any reason (these bills being presented and passed in some states do not even make exceptions for rape or incest) believe that life begins at conception, and therefore a zygote should be considered a person, while many believe that at conception the zygote is just a group of cells with the potential to become a person. The Constitution agrees with the latter at this point.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It is a personal matter, whenever anyone wants to restrict my rights based on their morals.

To be even more specific, if anyone does not believe in abortion, but acknowledges that everyone should have the right to a choice, I don't even have a debate, or issue to discuss at all. That is NOT the position that I have read on this thread by most of those that are opposed to this child having an abortion.

You are right. That has nothing to do with my statement though. I was simply stating that we should have this debate without asking questions like ‘what would you do if it was your daughter’ because what you are going to do with your daughter is irrelevant to the rights that my daughter and I have. That road only leads to bickering without dealing in actual facts and reality.

Your daughter (or his or anyone) has no bearing on my rights.

Agreed.....

 

[SayMyName]

Chile is a great country. Many changes have taken place over the last couple of decades in a very positive direction. I am sure the people of Chile will deal with this subject in the time and manner that is best for them.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Speculation on your part, and worth nothing.

Not speculation on my part.

I became an orphan at age 8, and most family members (with the exception of my Grandparents) resented the fact that I was there. Also, I was a foster child for around 5 years (and the foster kids, as well as the wife resented me), and know how it feels.

You may call it speculation, but I know what it's like to be resented by an entire family. Do you?

So, you would have rather been aborted?

Never said I would have wanted to be aborted. Matter of fact, I was a child that was wanted by both my parents, and probably would have had a very nice childhood had I not been orphaned at the age of 8.

My Grandparents wanted me, and after I went through foster care and decided that I didn't want to live with people other than my family, they took me in for the last year of high school.

I just said that I know what it's like to be resented and not wanted in a family because you were the "extra".

However................like I said..................knowing what it's like to be resented by a family because you weren't born into it, I can only wonder how much worse it must be to remind your parent that you weren't wanted, weren't planned for, and came as a result of being the fruit of a very violent act.

Foster care was bad enough..................I can't imagine what it would be like to be a child of rape.

 

[FA_Q2]

But it is a personal matter. That is why pro-choice leaves it up to the mother. Those that are anti-abortion for any reason (these bills being presented and passed in some states do not even make exceptions for rape or incest) believe that life begins at conception, and therefore a zygote should be considered a person, while many believe that at conception the zygote is just a group of cells with the potential to become a person. The Constitution agrees with the latter at this point.

There is no reason for an exception to rape or incest. Abortion should only be prevented when it passes a certain point in the pregnancy, as per the constitution and Roe, and before that point it is perfectly legal. You have 20 weeks in most laws that have been presented to kill your unborn. Rape, incest or whatever reason that you choose. Why would rape and incest get an exception, you already have the right to abort a rape or incestuous child.

The only abortions that must be allowed after that point is when the life of the mother is at risk or there are other significant problems with the pregnancy. Again, that is a constitutional requirement so if there are state laws that block either of these situations they will vanish in the court system as they rule them unconstitutional.

 

[S.J.]

Not speculation on my part.

I became an orphan at age 8, and most family members (with the exception of my Grandparents) resented the fact that I was there. Also, I was a foster child for around 5 years (and the foster kids, as well as the wife resented me), and know how it feels.

You may call it speculation, but I know what it's like to be resented by an entire family. Do you?

So, you would have rather been aborted?

Never said I would have wanted to be aborted. Matter of fact, I was a child that was wanted by both my parents, and probably would have had a very nice childhood had I not been orphaned at the age of 8.

My Grandparents wanted me, and after I went through foster care and decided that I didn't want to live with people other than my family, they took me in for the last year of high school.

I just said that I know what it's like to be resented and not wanted in a family because you were the "extra".

However................like I said..................knowing what it's like to be resented by a family because you weren't born into it, I can only wonder how much worse it must be to remind your parent that you weren't wanted, weren't planned for, and came as a result of being the fruit of a very violent act.

Foster care was bad enough..................I can't imagine what it would be like to be a child of rape.

First of all, you don't know that this child would not be wanted. Second, you would choose life for yourself but death for somebody else. How compassionate of you.

 

[Mertex]

But it is a personal matter. That is why pro-choice leaves it up to the mother. Those that are anti-abortion for any reason (these bills being presented and passed in some states do not even make exceptions for rape or incest) believe that life begins at conception, and therefore a zygote should be considered a person, while many believe that at conception the zygote is just a group of cells with the potential to become a person. The Constitution agrees with the latter at this point.

There is no reason for an exception to rape or incest. Abortion should only be prevented when it passes a certain point in the pregnancy, as per the constitution and Roe, and before that point it is perfectly legal.

So, if a woman's doctor doesn't find out that the woman's life is at risk until after the designated time, then it is too bad for her? She'll just have to die is she has to? That is ridiculous. Sometimes things go wrong after the 20 weeks (even the 24 weeks allowed by Roe v Wade) - and the woman shouldn't be punished for not knowing prior to that time.

You have 20 weeks in most laws that have been presented to kill your unborn. Rape, incest or whatever reason that you choose. Why would rape and incest get an exception, you already have the right to abort a rape or incestuous child.

You are naive to the bills that are being pushed. If exceptions to rape/incest are not part of the bill, then late term abortions for these situations will not be allowed. If a child of incest gets pregnant, she may not even know she is pregnant, or if she does know, may not tell anyone that she is pregnant, and if her life is at risk, it doesn't matter at what point it is found out, she should be allowed to abort. Her life is certainly more important than the fetuses life.


TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - Kansas House members on Tuesday gave first-round approval to sweeping new restrictions on abortion after refusing to add exceptions that would allow victims of incest or rape -- including children who are raped -- to get late-term abortions.
Read more: Kan. House rejects rape, incest exceptions for abortion

The only abortions that must be allowed after that point is when the life of the mother is at risk or there are other significant problems with the pregnancy.

You are not paying attention to what I am saying. Some of the bills being passed by some of the states do not make exceptions for the life of the woman being at risk. (See link ab ove). In other words, it won't matter if her life is at risk, if it is past the 20 weeks nobody will be allowed to abort. That is what is a problem that I object to.

Again, that is a constitutional requirement so if there are state laws that block either of these situations they will vanish in the court system as they rule them unconstitutional.

I think most of these bills will be ruled Unconstitutional to begin with, so these states are just wasting taxpayer time and money, but heaven help us if the SCOTUS decides to make it part of Roe v Wade - then it will be a real problem.


Arizona's restrictive 20-week abortion law overturned as unconstitutional | God Discussion