100% alternative energy worldwide by 2030

[Cold Fusion38]

Now that you mention windmills I thought I would mention my favorite thing about windmills: that we pay for them with government money and they never get used. Why not just dump money into the street?

Really fucking stupid, aren't you, ol' Screamy?

BPA: Wind farm system sets output milestone | Oregon Business News - OregonLive.com


BPA: Wind farm system sets output milestone
By Ted Sickinger, The Oregonian
August 12, 2009, 4:55PM
The Bonneville Power Administration says the wind farms plugged into its transmission system blew past a notable milestone earlier this month, sending out 2,000 megawatts of electricity for more than an hour.

That's enough to power all of Seattle and Portland for that hour.

The 22 wind farms in eastern Oregon and Washington hit a new peak of 2,089 megawatts on the evening of Aug. 6., doubling the previous peak of 1,000 megawatts recorded in January 2008.

BPA operates three quarters of the region's transmission system and is responsible for balancing the region's energy supply and demand to keep the grid operating smoothly. As more of that energy comes from intermittent sources like wind, the agency has been forced to adapt its hydro system and build new transmission capability to keep pace.

Six of the 22 wind farms on its system came on line this year, and the agency expects wind power to triple in the next five years.

Old Crock, the article is a press release of BPA posing as an article. There is no technical information at all. Can you provide the actual BPA report and not the press release. The answer is no, Old Crcok never provides another source with technical information when requested for when challenged with fact a liar can only hide.

The biggest lie is Old Crock's claim that 2 gwh is enough power to supply two cities, it is not. Seattle alone requires over 3.5 gwh.

Without seeing the actual report and only a press release by a corportation there is no way to no what they are speaking of. The only reasonable explanation is that Old Crock is stating that wind farms are able to provide enough power to supply seattle when everyone is sleeping in the middle of the night during the lowest peak usage season, summer.

Everyone knows that Seattle needs more power in the winter, not the summer, more power during the day and not the night.

Further if we assume there are no other twisting of facts BPA was only able to produce 2 gwh for about 14 minutes in the last year. Given the windy season is now over and we are entering peak electrical usage the massive investment in the polluting wind farm is now sitting idle, huge waste of CO2.

How much energy is used to produce one ton of fiberglass.

How many tons of fiberglass in one windmill.

How many millions of tons of CO2 was released into the environment producing millions of tons of fiberglass

How is it a better use of the dwindling earths precious resources to have massive giant copper electrical generators sit idle for 99% of the year while tax payers subsidize the wind farm sitting idle.

There are no answers from the liberal/marxist, this is all about controling people, stealing our money to give to rich which are the environuts.

Talk about a Straw Man argument.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

These are not conservatives, they are Conservatives. And too damned dumb even to do something as simple as checking the November issue of the Scientific American in a store to see if the article exists. But that would require basis logic, which this bunch sorely lack.

They are the patriots that wish to give our economy to Saudi Arabia and China. They are the people that would prefer a point system of electrical generation so that all the wealth can flow to a small number of people. They are the people that wish to saddle the next generation with the illnesses from the dirty coal plants, and the ecological damage from the coal mining. They are the people that will saddle the coming generations with the damage that will result from the GHGs released into the atmosphere. And they routinely wrap themselves in the flag.

I can't believe you people. How is it that you were ever convinced that solar panels here in the U.S. is somehow going to lead to energy independence or a lessened need for foreign oil? Our electricity is already produced domestically. Solar panels do not fit in gas cans. Electricity is not the same thing as oil. Shit.

Alternative energy does not exist in any sort of a viable format in the present time. It does not work. Now if I want to live in fantasy land or in what I think the future might be like then it could be a panacea, but so are drugs for a while.

Maybe you should look into what Germany has done with Wind power. So would you rather get wind mills from SUZLON, G.E. or some other DOMESTIC producers?

Oh wow, 6% of their electricity. Whoopdeedoo. Let's wait until they hit 50% and see how great that works out.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Who needs nuclear energy when 60,000 acres of windmills can deliver the same electricity at a fraction of the cost.

And grow wheat, cows, or anything else applicable on that acreage.

Neither cows nor food crops grow in canyons. The biggest bitch I have heard about Wind Farms is they ruin the view. And hey you guys who are going to try to trash me I was PISSED when the Kennedy's didn't want an off shore Wind farm because it would ruin THEIR view.......FUCK EM if they think their VIEW is more important then alternative domestic energy production.

You can't call windmills domestic energy, you can say they are alternative foreign, outsourced energy all you want. What we have now is domestic, windmills and solar panels are foreign. Please stick with the facts.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I can't believe you people. How is it that you were ever convinced that solar panels here in the U.S. is somehow going to lead to energy independence or a lessened need for foreign oil? Our electricity is already produced domestically. Solar panels do not fit in gas cans. Electricity is not the same thing as oil. Shit.

Alternative energy does not exist in any sort of a viable format in the present time. It does not work. Now if I want to live in fantasy land or in what I think the future might be like then it could be a panacea, but so are drugs for a while.

Maybe you should look into what Germany has done with Wind power. So would you rather get wind mills from SUZLON, G.E. or some other DOMESTIC producers?

Oh wow, 6% of their electricity. Whoopdeedoo. Let's wait until they hit 50% and see how great that works out.

They have not only MET but have exceeded benchmarks.......But if it just stayed at the pace now which one would get to 50% first Germany or America. I just don't understand why you "conservatives" are not willing to even CONSIDER renewable energy sources at PART of, and a growing replacement, for the status quo. I mean REALLY what is your problem with alt energy? ONCE AGAIN I WILL HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT I FAVOR NUCLEAR AS A MAJOR PART OF OUR "TRANSITION" to alternate power sources (and by the way if you can't get past electric cars then the 3rd Gen nuke plants produce HYDROGEN as a by-product and all we would have to do is increase refuling sites and you could STILL have a car you can drive as far as you would like to. It may take 10-20-30-40-or 50 YEARS to have alt energy as a significant source of energy but if we fall prey to ALL of you anti-renewables naysayers then NOTHING will change in 50-100-150-or 200 years we will STILL be held hostage by the petro cos who will be able to charge ANY PRICE they want. Do you beleive that our economy will survive the ever dwindling fossil fuel resources and the MASSIVE run up in price of those comodities? I don't, and I think more and more Americans are no longer living with a 20th century mindset.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

And grow wheat, cows, or anything else applicable on that acreage.

Neither cows nor food crops grow in canyons. The biggest bitch I have heard about Wind Farms is they ruin the view. And hey you guys who are going to try to trash me I was PISSED when the Kennedy's didn't want an off shore Wind farm because it would ruin THEIR view.......FUCK EM if they think their VIEW is more important then alternative domestic energy production.

You can't call windmills domestic energy, you can say they are alternative foreign, outsourced energy all you want. What we have now is domestic, windmills and solar panels are foreign. Please stick with the facts.

WTF are you talking about? Solar panels on DONESTIC land is DOMESTIC power unless I missed the treaty that Russia has made a claim to SUNLIGHT!!!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

And by the way there is a major chip manufacturer that is converting to developing and building solar power cells.

 

[AllieBaba]

A doable and needed plan.

Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers


Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers



IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Most of the technology needed to shift the world from fossil fuel to clean, renewable energy already exists. Implementing that technology requires overcoming obstacles in planning and politics, but doing so could result in a 30 percent decrease in global power demand, say Stanford civil and environmental engineering Professor Mark Z. Jacobson and University of California-Davis researcher Mark Delucchi.

To make clear the extent of those hurdles – and how they could be overcome – they have written an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. In it, they present new research mapping out and evaluating a quantitative plan for powering the entire world on wind, water and solar energy, including an assessment of the materials needed and costs. And it will ultimately be cheaper than sticking with fossil fuel or going nuclear, they say.

The key is turning to wind, water and solar energy to generate electrical power – making a massive commitment to them – and eliminating combustion as a way to generate power for vehicles as well as for normal electricity use.

The problem lies in the use of fossil fuels and biomass combustion, which are notoriously inefficient at producing usable energy. For example, when gasoline is used to power a vehicle, at least 80 percent of the energy produced is wasted as heat.

With vehicles that run on electricity, it's the opposite. Roughly 80 percent of the energy supplied to the vehicle is converted into motion, with only 20 percent lost as heat. Other combustion devices can similarly be replaced with electricity or with hydrogen produced by electricity.




IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Jacobson and Delucchi used data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration to project that if the world's current mix of energy sources is maintained, global energy demand at any given moment in 2030 would be 16.9 terawatts, or 16.9 million megawatts.

They then calculated that if no combustion of fossil fuel or biomass were used to generate energy, and virtually everything was powered by electricity – either for direct use or hydrogen production – the demand would be only 11.5 terawatts. That's only two-thirds of the energy that would be needed if fossil fuels were still in the mix.

Unfortunately, the tribes are pushing us towards removing dams and they despise the wind mills and are moving to stop that from going any further as well.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Yeah I know about the dams they interfere with the sockeye salmon that go to the ocean and then come back UPSTREAM to their breeding grounds. Dams make it very dificult but with the use of special trubines that don't kill as many and "ladders" built so they can get upstream we have helped to reduce the problem. It is always a bad think to let a species to die out because it can often have a cascade effect to many other species.

 

[mdn2000]

Straw man arguement, far from it ColdFusion, so you do not know the amount or the types of energy to make fiberglass, I thought you said it was the conservatives who dont know the whole picture.

You provide no arguement at all, no debate, nothing, fiberglass production requires massive amounts of energy, more than a windmill ever produces.

Hell, how much electricity does an idle wind farm use. That is part of the whole picture.

Nothing is green and all the proposals offered so far are depleting the earths resources faster than if we just used the fossil fuel to produce power. '

Windmills are centuries old, they simply hook them up to a generator, nothing creative or new.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Straw man arguement, far from it ColdFusion, so you do not know the amount or the types of energy to make fiberglass, I thought you said it was the conservatives who dont know the whole picture.

You provide no arguement at all, no debate, nothing, fiberglass production requires massive amounts of energy, more than a windmill ever produces.

Hell, how much electricity does an idle wind farm use. That is part of the whole picture.

Nothing is green and all the proposals offered so far are depleting the earths resources faster than if we just used the fossil fuel to produce power. '

Windmills are centuries old, they simply hook them up to a generator, nothing creative or new.

Well then PROVE your claims about how much energy and waste fiberglass production produces........You should have that info INSTANTLY available since you are basing your CLAIM against wind power on fiberglass production. As far as depleteing Earths resources you DO realise that FOSSIL FUELS are a FINATE source RIGHT? You argument means NOTHING. What kind of energy and finate resources does it take to build an IC car?

 

[mdn2000]

Cold Fusion, I got to bite my tongue. It just kills me that you call my arguement the strawman arguement but you have not addressed one point I have made. I have hundreds of posts with facts, with questions the green energy promoters do not have the answer to. Can you answer one, can you say you looked into the things I have asked, no you cannot. This is not to insult but its your side of the arguement that is lacking.

Held hostage to Middle East oil, not at all, we trade money for oil, for the best oil in the world, that oil makes everything in your life and always will.

So am I only going to get the run around or are you interested in knowing the cons of wind power or solar. I got to go check my other thread with the exploding wind mill to see if you responded there, if you have not seen the you tube video I posted its really worth a look.

So once again it appears its only the conservatives with the answers and the green energy supporters demonizing what they may know nothing about.

I cant be nicer nor more encouraging, care to look at facts or is your mind made up.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Straw man arguement, far from it ColdFusion, so you do not know the amount or the types of energy to make fiberglass, I thought you said it was the conservatives who dont know the whole picture.

You provide no arguement at all, no debate, nothing, fiberglass production requires massive amounts of energy, more than a windmill ever produces.

Hell, how much electricity does an idle wind farm use. That is part of the whole picture.

Nothing is green and all the proposals offered so far are depleting the earths resources faster than if we just used the fossil fuel to produce power. '

Windmills are centuries old, they simply hook them up to a generator, nothing creative or new.

YOU made the CLAIM about fiberglass then YOU PROVE IT!!!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Cold Fusion, I got to bite my tongue. It just kills me that you call my arguement the strawman arguement but you have not addressed one point I have made. I have hundreds of posts with facts, with questions the green energy promoters do not have the answer to. Can you answer one, can you say you looked into the things I have asked, no you cannot. This is not to insult but its your side of the arguement that is lacking.

Held hostage to Middle East oil, not at all, we trade money for oil, for the best oil in the world, that oil makes everything in your life and always will.

So am I only going to get the run around or are you interested in knowing the cons of wind power or solar. I got to go check my other thread with the exploding wind mill to see if you responded there, if you have not seen the you tube video I posted its really worth a look.

So once again it appears its only the conservatives with the answers and the green energy supporters demonizing what they may know nothing about.

I cant be nicer nor more encouraging, care to look at facts or is your mind made up.

I've ASKED you to show me the FACTS HOW MANY TIMES. Show me your FACTS and your SOURCES and I will be MORE than happy, in fact, eager to look over your PROOF that the energy and reasources to BUILD a windmill will NEVER be recouped during the lifespan of a modern windmill.

 

[mdn2000]

Cold Fusion, I got to bite my tongue. It just kills me that you call my arguement the strawman arguement but you have not addressed one point I have made. I have hundreds of posts with facts, with questions the green energy promoters do not have the answer to. Can you answer one, can you say you looked into the things I have asked, no you cannot. This is not to insult but its your side of the arguement that is lacking.

Held hostage to Middle East oil, not at all, we trade money for oil, for the best oil in the world, that oil makes everything in your life and always will.

So am I only going to get the run around or are you interested in knowing the cons of wind power or solar. I got to go check my other thread with the exploding wind mill to see if you responded there, if you have not seen the you tube video I posted its really worth a look.

So once again it appears its only the conservatives with the answers and the green energy supporters demonizing what they may know nothing about.

I cant be nicer nor more encouraging, care to look at facts or is your mind made up.

I've ASKED you to show me the FACTS HOW MANY TIMES. Show me your FACTS and your SOURCES and I will be MORE than happy, in fact, eager to look over your PROOF that the energy and reasources to BUILD a windmill will NEVER be recouped during the lifespan of a modern windmill.

You did not ask once, if you have I missed it, I will produce the facts, first I wanted to see if you could or anyone else, the fact that you cant and no one else can is proof that you know nothing of what you support.

Maybe while I get my post together which will take a bit as I go through my files you can answer why this thread is based on a source that we are not allowed to see and why you dont seem to give a shit about that.

One thing I will not be able to produce because the information is a hidden secret is the amount of energy an idle wind farm uses.

You have not asked for a fact from me, if so where is the post, facts I have posted, I have destroyed geothermal, that is a complete waste of money and energy,

Wind is just as easy to destroy.

Solar may be good in the future if your prepared to use millions of gallons of water in the desert, but than again solar does not have the output to pump water so what a waste of water and energy.

anyhow you cant answer one question, no green energy supporter can, my response will be here today. maybe quickly but I got a bit to do, like get a bite to eat here in Monterey Bay California, last night I ate in Carmel at Little Napoli, brushed elbows with the rich and famous.

So maybe while I am away you can show the pro arguement in the con vs cons thread.

see ya there.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Maybe you should look into what Germany has done with Wind power. So would you rather get wind mills from SUZLON, G.E. or some other DOMESTIC producers?

Oh wow, 6% of their electricity. Whoopdeedoo. Let's wait until they hit 50% and see how great that works out.

They have not only MET but have exceeded benchmarks.......But if it just stayed at the pace now which one would get to 50% first Germany or America. I just don't understand why you "conservatives" are not willing to even CONSIDER renewable energy sources at PART of, and a growing replacement, for the status quo. I mean REALLY what is your problem with alt energy? ONCE AGAIN I WILL HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT I FAVOR NUCLEAR AS A MAJOR PART OF OUR "TRANSITION" to alternate power sources (and by the way if you can't get past electric cars then the 3rd Gen nuke plants produce HYDROGEN as a by-product and all we would have to do is increase refuling sites and you could STILL have a car you can drive as far as you would like to. It may take 10-20-30-40-or 50 YEARS to have alt energy as a significant source of energy but if we fall prey to ALL of you anti-renewables naysayers then NOTHING will change in 50-100-150-or 200 years we will STILL be held hostage by the petro cos who will be able to charge ANY PRICE they want. Do you beleive that our economy will survive the ever dwindling fossil fuel resources and the MASSIVE run up in price of those comodities? I don't, and I think more and more Americans are no longer living with a 20th century mindset.

I have no problem with private companies building power plants with any technology available, provided they use their money to do it and not government money.

However, once you go over 10% alternative energy is when the real problems begin. Once you peak usage exceeds the amount made by 'always on' power plants it's just a waiting game until the blackouts start happening. Texas has more wind energy than Germany by about 1-2% and every summer they start doing rolling blackouts every day, of course they only black out the poor districts. Up to 10% I think it is great, over that mark I think any new plants built need to utilize storage technology to maintain a constant, regulated flow of energy from those plants, and I think that should be law.

 

[mdn2000]

one quick fact you find out real quick if you look at the materials to make fiberglass, Propene is needed and only comes from oil, Propene demand outstrips supply. Oil companies are selling the Propene

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Neither cows nor food crops grow in canyons. The biggest bitch I have heard about Wind Farms is they ruin the view. And hey you guys who are going to try to trash me I was PISSED when the Kennedy's didn't want an off shore Wind farm because it would ruin THEIR view.......FUCK EM if they think their VIEW is more important then alternative domestic energy production.

You can't call windmills domestic energy, you can say they are alternative foreign, outsourced energy all you want. What we have now is domestic, windmills and solar panels are foreign. Please stick with the facts.

WTF are you talking about? Solar panels on DONESTIC land is DOMESTIC power unless I missed the treaty that Russia has made a claim to SUNLIGHT!!!

A coal power plant is built in America and runs on American coal. A windmill might be on our land but it is built in China. Coal plants are better for our economy.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Cold Fusion, I got to bite my tongue. It just kills me that you call my arguement the strawman arguement but you have not addressed one point I have made. I have hundreds of posts with facts, with questions the green energy promoters do not have the answer to. Can you answer one, can you say you looked into the things I have asked, no you cannot. This is not to insult but its your side of the arguement that is lacking.

Held hostage to Middle East oil, not at all, we trade money for oil, for the best oil in the world, that oil makes everything in your life and always will.

So am I only going to get the run around or are you interested in knowing the cons of wind power or solar. I got to go check my other thread with the exploding wind mill to see if you responded there, if you have not seen the you tube video I posted its really worth a look.

So once again it appears its only the conservatives with the answers and the green energy supporters demonizing what they may know nothing about.

I cant be nicer nor more encouraging, care to look at facts or is your mind made up.

I've ASKED you to show me the FACTS HOW MANY TIMES. Show me your FACTS and your SOURCES and I will be MORE than happy, in fact, eager to look over your PROOF that the energy and reasources to BUILD a windmill will NEVER be recouped during the lifespan of a modern windmill.

You did not ask once, if you have I missed it, I will produce the facts, first I wanted to see if you could or anyone else, the fact that you cant and no one else can is proof that you know nothing of what you support.

Maybe while I get my post together which will take a bit as I go through my files you can answer why this thread is based on a source that we are not allowed to see and why you dont seem to give a shit about that.

One thing I will not be able to produce because the information is a hidden secret is the amount of energy an idle wind farm uses.

You have not asked for a fact from me, if so where is the post, facts I have posted, I have destroyed geothermal, that is a complete waste of money and energy,

Wind is just as easy to destroy.

Solar may be good in the future if your prepared to use millions of gallons of water in the desert, but than again solar does not have the output to pump water so what a waste of water and energy.

anyhow you cant answer one question, no green energy supporter can, my response will be here today. maybe quickly but I got a bit to do, like get a bite to eat here in Monterey Bay California, last night I ate in Carmel at Little Napoli, brushed elbows with the rich and famous.

So maybe while I am away you can show the pro arguement in the con vs cons thread.

see ya there.

I don't think you commented on the type of geo thermal that Bush used on his Crawford ranch........Expensive at frist but it keeps your house at a very comfy temp winter and summer.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

You can't call windmills domestic energy, you can say they are alternative foreign, outsourced energy all you want. What we have now is domestic, windmills and solar panels are foreign. Please stick with the facts.

WTF are you talking about? Solar panels on DONESTIC land is DOMESTIC power unless I missed the treaty that Russia has made a claim to SUNLIGHT!!!

A coal power plant is built in America and runs on American coal. A windmill might be on our land but it is built in China. Coal plants are better for our economy.

G.E. windmills are built in China? Care to PROVE it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A doable and needed plan.

Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers


Shifting the world to 100 percent clean, renewable energy as early as 2030 -- here are the numbers



IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Most of the technology needed to shift the world from fossil fuel to clean, renewable energy already exists. Implementing that technology requires overcoming obstacles in planning and politics, but doing so could result in a 30 percent decrease in global power demand, say Stanford civil and environmental engineering Professor Mark Z. Jacobson and University of California-Davis researcher Mark Delucchi.

To make clear the extent of those hurdles – and how they could be overcome – they have written an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. In it, they present new research mapping out and evaluating a quantitative plan for powering the entire world on wind, water and solar energy, including an assessment of the materials needed and costs. And it will ultimately be cheaper than sticking with fossil fuel or going nuclear, they say.

The key is turning to wind, water and solar energy to generate electrical power – making a massive commitment to them – and eliminating combustion as a way to generate power for vehicles as well as for normal electricity use.

The problem lies in the use of fossil fuels and biomass combustion, which are notoriously inefficient at producing usable energy. For example, when gasoline is used to power a vehicle, at least 80 percent of the energy produced is wasted as heat.

With vehicles that run on electricity, it's the opposite. Roughly 80 percent of the energy supplied to the vehicle is converted into motion, with only 20 percent lost as heat. Other combustion devices can similarly be replaced with electricity or with hydrogen produced by electricity.




IMAGE: Mark Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, has coauthored an article that is the cover story in the November issue of Scientific American. The article presents new research mapping...


Click here for more information.



Jacobson and Delucchi used data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration to project that if the world's current mix of energy sources is maintained, global energy demand at any given moment in 2030 would be 16.9 terawatts, or 16.9 million megawatts.

They then calculated that if no combustion of fossil fuel or biomass were used to generate energy, and virtually everything was powered by electricity – either for direct use or hydrogen production – the demand would be only 11.5 terawatts. That's only two-thirds of the energy that would be needed if fossil fuels were still in the mix.

Fairy residence, tooth here!

Just wanted to make you feel at home.

. Our future is in ‘green energy’? “Presidents all the way back to Richard Nixon -- whose "Project Independence" promised to make America independent from foreign oil by 1980 -- were thwarted by short attention spans, other urgent problems and gyrations in the energy market.” After some 30 years and billions of dollars poured into alternative technologies, renewable energy now accounts for a mere 6.7% of our total.
A Past President's Advice to Obama: Act With Haste - WSJ.com

Based on US Department of Energy, sources of energy used in the US:
39.2% petroleum, 23.3% natural gas, 22.4% coal, 8.3% nuclear, 3.6% biomass, 2.4% hydroelectric, 0.35% geothermal, 0.31% wind, 0.08% solar.