Zone1 Catholicism is true but it's not easy to get in

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Try again. The fullness of salvation is proclaimed by the Catholic Church. Elements of salvation are present even in most atheists. You do have a problem presenting facts. Let Catholics explain the Catholic faith. You get too much wrong.

I REALLY don't care what YOUR church teaches EXCEPT for the many on this forum who proselytize and lecture the rest of us.

But THIS IS your teaching whether you agree with your own church or not

1. There is no salvation apart from Christ and his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Again, this is an infallible teaching and not up for debate among Catholics.
2. Those who are “invincibly” ignorant concerning the truth of #1 above will not be culpable for this lack of knowledge before God.
3. Those in the category of #2 have the real possibility of salvation even if they never come to an explicit knowledge of Christ and/or his Church.

As we will see below, “invincibly ignorant” does not mean just because a person is “ignorant” of the truth, they will automatically be saved. Ignorance is not bliss; it is dangerous. There are other criteria beyond being “invincibly ignorant” that must be met as well before one can finally be saved. But it does mean that they have the possibility of salvation

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

The Catholic Church teaches infallibly, “extra ecclesiam nulla salus,” or, “outside the Church there is no salvation.” But as with all dogmas of the Faith, this...

www.catholic.com

 

[Meriweather]

As we will see below, “invincibly ignorant” does not mean just because a person is “ignorant” of the truth, they will automatically be saved.

No one has asserted that anyone is "automatically saved". My protest is about someone asserting that the Catholic Church condemns or declares Protestants--or anyone--are damned and going to hell. Rightfully so, the Catholic faith notes it teaches the fullness of salvation. This is fact, as some Christian denominations have redefined salvation. Even so, the Catholic Church teaches all followers of Christ, despite their denomination, are considered members of the Body of Christ. It has also stated that due to divine mercy, non-Christians, namely Jews, can participate in salvation without explicitly confessing Christ. It seems some other Christian denominations do not extend this hope of salvation to any non-Christians. Is that correct?

My irritation is over anyone seemingly gleefully submitting a post--not even checking the etymology--proclaiming Catholic damnation of anyone. The Church has always held the position that it is not known who--if anyone--is in hell. The Church also holds the position that even though we are commanded to proclaim the Good News (salvation and redemption) to all, even if someone isn't convinced by the Church, God's success over that someone cannot be ruled out.

Is there so little good to say about one's own denomination that presenting falsehoods about the Catholic faith is all there is to speak of?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

No one has asserted that anyone is "automatically saved

That's not the "argument.". My problem isn't what you believe. I could care less. I only respond when members of your cult lecture us that yours is the only true Church . Your people, the JWs and the Mormons all tell us if we're not with the right organization they'll burn in hell.

All three of you cults don't understand that "the Church" is a SPIRITUAL organism.

The only definition of "the Church" is those individuals in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Try again. The fullness of salvation is proclaimed by the Catholic Church. Elements of salvation are present even in most atheists. You do have a problem presenting facts. Let Catholics explain the Catholic faith. You get too much wrong.

Christ is the fullness of salvation. Christ isn't one of the elements of salvation. He is our Savior.
Let scripture present the facts:

Romans 10:9-11 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

It doesn't say you will be partially saved, or you're on your way to being saved. It says, YOU WILL BE SAVED with a period at the end. Then it tells you WHY.

Romans 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."​

^ Reminds me of an absolute atheist who had a heart attack. And was resuscitated, only to have his heart stop again and again and every time it did, he was on his way to hell. The last trip down, he cried out for Jesus, and was back in the ER, and his heart kept pumping. He is a preacher today.
I heard about that a long time ago and don't remember his name, but I know that our Father and Jesus don't want to lose one of us. They will leave the 99 sheep to go save the little lost one. They would die in our place is how much we are loved. They know us well enough to know not to leave any part of our salvation up to us, who screw up everything.
Trust Jesus as your savior. We do good works on his behalf, not our own.

 

[Meriweather]

Your people...

tell us if we're not with the right organization they'll burn in hell.

Wrong.

All three of you cults don't understand that "the Church" is a SPIRITUAL organism.

Wrong as it applies to Catholicism. By the way, how are you defining cult? For example, why isn't your own place of worship a cult? What makes it different?

The only definition of "the Church" is those individuals in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us.

 

[Meriweather]

Christ is the fullness of salvation. Christ isn't one of the elements of salvation. He is our Savior.
Let scripture present the facts:

Christ and his teachings. Yes, let scripture present the facts: What did Jesus say about the works of feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless and what happens when we do not take care of them?

 

[The Irish Ram]

There is a whole lot Jesus said about taking care of the poor and hungry. If you are a new creature in Christ, you have it in your heart to care for others.
This verse sums it up pretty well as far as our part in working for His sake.
John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

But none of that has to do with our redemption. That was all Jesus.

 

[Meriweather]

There is a whole lot Jesus said about taking care of the poor and hungry. If you are a new creature in Christ, you have it in your heart to care for others.

"Faith alone" is seen only once in the Bible, and then it is used in the negative sense. Faith goes hand-in-hand with trust and obedience to God. True faith is working in love.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It has also stated that due to divine mercy, non-Christians, namely Jews, can participate in salvation without explicitly confessing Christ

Then you are doing the Jews no favor.
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. As in, no one.

 

[The Irish Ram]

"Faith alone" is seen only once in the Bible, and then it is used in the negative sense. Faith goes hand-in-hand with trust and obedience to God. True faith is working in love.

This is the importance God puts on faith:
Ephesians 2: 8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast,”

John 20:28-29 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

We are blessed for our faith. Even the faith that we declare here.

 

[22lcidw]

When it comes to Christianity, we have who has the best denomination of it. There has to be some discipline in life though. Perfection is not demanded. I also believe that other people on this planet can go to heaven if not Christian. We have people who sit on their asses proclaiming faith while on the other side of the world some lady with limited resources helping every person she can and is not Christian.

 

[Meriweather]

Then you are doing the Jews no favor.
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. As in, no one.

Faithful Jews study the Word of God, and are obedient to him. Who is the Word? Who is One with the Father? Whose commands does Jesus keep out of love of the Father? Whose commands do Jews keep out of that same love of the Father?

 

[Meriweather]

This is the importance God puts on faith:
Ephesians 2: 8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast,”

So...when Jesus asks why you did not give him food or drink or shelter, your reply will be, "I was afraid I would boast"?

 

[The Irish Ram]

So...when Jesus asks why you did not give him food or drink or shelter, your reply will be, "I was afraid I would boast"?

No, because out of love for one another you were charitable. He'll say, "Bless you for taking care of my sheep."

 

[The Irish Ram]

Faithful Jews study the Word of God, and are obedient to him. Who is the Word? Who is One with the Father? Whose commands does Jesus keep out of love of the Father? Whose commands do Jews keep out of that same love of the Father?

Let's see what Peter said to the Jews instead:

Acts 2
22“People of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus the Nazarene by doing powerful miracles, wonders, and signs through him, as you well know. But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him. But God released him from the horrors of death and raised him back to life, for death could not keep him in its grip.

32 “God raised Jesus from the dead, and we are all witnesses of this. Now he is exalted to the place of highest honor in heaven, at God’s right hand. And the Father, as he had promised, gave him the Holy Spirit to pour out upon us, just as you see and hear today. For David himself never ascended into heaven, yet he said

36 “So let everyone in Israel know for certain that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, to be both Lord and Messiah!”

38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

[Meriweather]

No, because out of love for one another you were charitable. He'll say, "Bless you for taking care of my sheep."

And what does he say to Catholics who followed his commands to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless?

 

[The Irish Ram]

And what does he say to Catholics who followed his commands to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless?

It depends, If you did it quietly and secretly for Christ's sake, you are rewarded. If you did it and talked about it and got, "Gee, your great for doing that", then that is all the reward you will get for your good works:
Matthew 6:3-4 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

A Protestant will invite you to church, give you a Bible to read, and then invite you to do an altar call and be "saved."

So, Protestantism is easy.

If you want to be Catholic, you have to go to a special school and learn about Catholicism. It takes a year and you get the sacraments at Easter. And then, guess what? You're not "saved." You're on the road to being saved, and there's a lot of ways to get knocked off that road.

You say "it's true".

But it's not, is it?

Catholicism is what Catholics believe. The church doesn't even teach the spirit of the Bible, they teach what they want to teach and ignore what they don't like.

 

[Meriweather]

If you did it and talked about it and got, "Gee, your great for doing that", then that is all the reward you will get for your good works:

Why would you even think that is how it's done.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Why would you even think that is how it's done.

Because we all have egos and like to have our goodness acknowledged.

Matthew 6:1-24 “Watch out! Don’t do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. When you give to someone in need, don’t do as the hypocrites do—blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get​