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True, but I'm almost positive that no one here is a Calvinist.
That's the perfect kid for that meme. lol.btw, I found a pic of you...
Being helpful is a good trait, but has nothing to do with salvation. If you believe that people who don't accept God's gift of redemption through Christ go to heaven also, then you have to ignore what Christ said:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
Yeah, we could probably use one around here. A really strict one, too, to make things interesting.
Anyone come to mind?
But yes I know exactly who you have in mind. Gosh, if that guy ever came to this forum, the current battles here between Catholics and non-Catholics would look like this in comparison 
You added to the scripture to include your works. Which keeps your attention on self, instead of Jesus. And even if you were 100% in following Christ's path, the most important part of His path, you can't reproduce. The pure blood of Christ that washes our sins away, that was shed on the cross.What does that mean to you? Does it mean that only people who believe in Jesus of Nazareth (The man) are to gain salvation? Did Jesus only teach of worldly beliefs of the flesh or were his teachings much deeper, spiritual in nature?
Could have Jesus been speaking of his overall body of work while on Earth? HIS path? HIS Spiritual journey?
"No one comes to the Father except through ME - My Spiritual Path, My Way - Follow My Way"
Do you understand?
get back to us when you study and learn sanctification.Pelagianism is a fifth century heresy that Catholics rejected fifteen hundred years ago. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand. Nor should it be so hard to understand that in entering into God's grace, accepting the gift of salvation, we don't put this salvation on the back shelf of a closet. We use it! We follow the Way of Jesus (the Way of salvation) following his commands in love as he followed God's commandments with love. Catholics respond to salvation, and the works God planned, from the beginning, for us to accomplish.
The question is, does your denomination teach using the gift of salvation or are you instructed to just wait for something to happen? If so, what are you waiting for? Does your denomination hold the belief that God planned works for us from the beginning?
Growing up my family mainly went to protestant churches, but when I was a baby I was baptised in a Catholic church by my side of the family that is Catholic.A Protestant will invite you to church, give you a Bible to read, and then invite you to do an altar call and be "saved."
So, Protestantism is easy.
If you want to be Catholic, you have to go to a special school and learn about Catholicism. It takes a year and you get the sacraments at Easter. And then, guess what? You're not "saved." You're on the road to being saved, and there's a lot of ways to get knocked off that road.
No. Holy to God.So, you want to add you must also remain holy to the scripture?
Hebrews 10:10 He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all,
(but you must remain holy) <or what ding? Our sanctification through Jesus doesn't apply?
While the scripture doesn't include our work at holiness as part of the equation, it does put the holiness of our sanctification squarely on Jesus and the second covenant He established, because He is holy.
Giving your life to Christ isn't an excuse for unrestrained debauchery. It is the opposite.
Debauchery= the old man. In Christ= new creature. God knows our heart.
We are sanctified by the one who really IS holy. And it is a gift given to those who fail at being holy.
Are the Jews holy to God because the keep over 600+ laws? Because they aren't and don't. They fail at being holy to God. That is why the need for sacrifices. We don't even scratch the service of Holy to God. If we did Christ wouldn't have had to die on a cross. He took our sin and gave us His holiness to enter Heaven with.No. Holy to God.
The only point I am making is that Hadit says that God doesn't allow anything less than holy to enter heaven. So if you think Christ makes you holy, then good for you. Personally I don't know what God allows or doesn't allow and think it's better to err on the side of caution.Are the Jews holy to God because the keep over 600+ laws? Because they aren't and don't. They fail at being holy to God. That is why the need for sacrifices. We don't even scratch the service of Holy to God. If we did Christ wouldn't have had to die on a cross. He took our sin and gave us His holiness to enter Heaven with.
He tells us in the instruction manual. Sin doesn't enter Heaven. Christ took our sin and gave us His sin free record to enter heaven with.The only point I am making is that Hadit says that God doesn't allow anything less than holy to enter heaven. So if you think Christ makes you holy, then good for you. Personally I don't know what God allows or doesn't allow and think it's better to err on the side of caution.
That's great. Sounds like you believe you have a hall pass.He tells us in the instruction manual. Sin doesn't enter Heaven. Christ took our sin and gave us His sin free record to enter heaven with.
I have the Passover Lamb of God.That's great. Sounds like you believe you have a hall pass.
You added to the scripture to include your works. Which keeps your attention on self, instead of Jesus. And even if you were 100% in following Christ's path, the most important part of His path, you can't reproduce. The pure blood of Christ that washes our sins away, that was shed on the cross.
Gal. 2:21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
How God views our righteousness:
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
Isaiah 53:6, “The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
^
There is no amount of work that you can do that can accomplish that act. And that act is the only act that salvages our souls. He alone paid our debt.
Yes, it does mean that Christ is the only way to the Father:
John 14:6-7 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
^
It is a gift from a loving Father, and His Son, and it is for anybody that wants it. It is all inclusive.
Errr...that's not entirely accurate. Actually, it's false:Sin doesn't enter Heaven.
Not only does the LORD God forgive sins directly - he also forgets them. God forgives AND forgets sins - directly. That is unconditional forgiveness. The book of Isaiah was written 600 years before Jesus was born
The person capable of undoing what Adam did had to be a kinsman redeemer. Christ had to be related to Adam. Christ was Jewish, kept to Jewish law and fulfilled the Law of a kinsman. A kinsman can buy back or regain possession. And that was the method Emanuel<(God with us) used to redeem us. And while God forgave them while they were committing sin, God didn't regain possession of any humans until after their sins were paid for. They all went to Paradise to wait for Christ.if you state that only through Jesus can mankind be forgiven of sins and be redeemed, are you insinuating that God - The Father Almighty - is not capable of forgiving sins and redeeming mankind
Yes. It is the only way to be redeemed:Does that mean that only folks that worship Jesus directly will be saved?
Actually, it's true. Do you see the s on realms, as in plural? There is more that one realm. Lucifer set up shop in the realm under Heaven:Errr...that's not entirely accurate. Actually, it's false:
Ephesians 6:12: “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”
And let's not forget that Satan himself was a heavenly being before he was cast out of heaven - along with 1/3 of the heavenly angels.
Sin (Spiritual forces of evil) is an eternal force. The idea is that if we are truly redeemed and righteous by the time we end our lives on Earth (Where sin runs amuck) then it won't be an issue by the time we begin our eternal path in the heavenly realms. If we conquer sin while in the flesh - where sin thrives - it won't (Or shouldn't be) much of an issue once in Spirit.
Spiritual forces of evil are eternal beings. Christ never kills Satan. He dispatches Satan and his followers to the Lake of Fire for eternity.Sin (Spiritual forces of evil) is an eternal force. The idea is that if we are truly redeemed and righteous by the time we end our lives on Earth (Where sin runs amuck) then it won't be an issue by the time we begin our eternal path in the heavenly realms. If we conquer sin while in the flesh - where sin thrives - it won't (Or shouldn't be) much of an issue once in Spirit
I caught this in post #95 but not in time to edit it. I meant to say, "And do you know when they were redeemed?"And do you know when they were forgiven?
Ok. Let's take this one first.
And do you know when they were forgiven? After Jesus paid their debt. All of God's favorites, David, Abraham and the others waited for Christ in Abraham's Bosom, or as it was also called, Paradise, forgiven, but yet to be redeemed. Recall the conversation Abraham had with the rich man and where they were when they had the conversation. Christ spent 3 days there, and when He came back He brought those in Paradise (Abraham's side) with Him. They all stayed for 40 days and then ascended with Christ to Heaven.
The first mention of Christ was in Genesis prophesy:
Gen. 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Here is OT David describing Christ's death.
Psalm 22:7-18
All those who see Me ridicule Me.
I am poured out like water, And all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And My tongue clings to My jaws
They pierced My hands and My feet…
I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me.
They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.
^
Tell me you don't really think David is talking about Israel.
The things OT Isaiah describes here certainly isn't land:
Isaiah 53:4-9
Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities; < genesis prophesy
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth."
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth
When did the God of Israel lay all of our Iniquity on Israel to redeem us? What cemetery did they bury Israel in?
While the descriptions don't make sense at all when describing land, it fits the crucifixion of Jesus to a t.
The person capable of undoing what Adam did had to be a kinsman redeemer. Christ had to be related to Adam. Christ was Jewish, kept to Jewish law and fulfilled the Law of a kinsman. A kinsman can buy back or regain possession. And that was the method Emanuel<(God with us) used to redeem us. And while God forgave them while they were committing sin, God didn't regain possession of any humans until after their sins were paid for. They all went to Paradise to wait for Christ.
And for my Catholic friends, there was no such thing as partial redemption when it came to being a kinsman-redeemer. Unless the full price was paid, there was no redemption
Yes. It is the only way to be redeemed:
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
^
That came out of Christ's mouth. Is He a liar?
i am a Catholic …. and i dont know such schoolsA Protestant will invite you to church, give you a Bible to read, and then invite you to do an altar call and be "saved."
So, Protestantism is easy.
If you want to be Catholic, you have to go to a special school and learn about Catholicism. It takes a year and you get the sacraments at Easter. And then, guess what? You're not "saved." You're on the road to being saved, and there's a lot of ways to get knocked off that road.
