Zionism and The Iranian Problem

[Shogun]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh... so Muslim countries ok... Jewish country racism.

lol...

Muslim nations don't claim to be WESTERN, do they, jill? You sure are having a logic problem today, aren't you? Have I ever suggested that Saudi Arabia should remain the way it is? Maybe you can quote me suggesting as much.. OR, if you don't feel like making as much effort to prove your silly inuendo I bet calling me a jew hating antisemite will suffice..

 

[Shogun]

I notice you didn't touch the Nelson Mandela example with a ten foot pole, jill..


Gosh, I'm just SHOCKED that you would totally avoid historic evidence that isn't busy benefiting jews!

WOW.

I'm totally SHOCKED!

 

[jillian]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... so Israel shouldn't exist for the purpose it was created. It should be some pathetic protectorate and not be soverign... it should give the palestinians a do-over.

Again. The Palestinians weren't ousted. They didn't control or *own* that land. It was nebulous... it was the only place in the mid-east with no oil. Why do you think that Europe decided to plant the Jewish refugees there. Like any other victor in war, Europe had the right to do what it wanted. Same as when it created Iraq... the UAE... etc. You complaining about those countries?

BTW, I don't find the term zionist an insult.

Nice dodge, btw, trying to hold Israel to some different standard so it no longer exists... cool. Duplicitous, but cool.

BTW, did you ever respond as to why you're so vested in this issue?

 

[Shogun]

just like the native DIDNT OWN THE LAND, jillian. For real, your circular arguments are getting tired.

DIFFERENT standard? what is so different about DESERGRATION in WESTERN NATIONS? Funny, you claim israel is western when it suits you but... when it DOESNT...

Hey, I invite you to QUOTE ME where I've ever stated that israel should not exist.. Hell, I could remind you that when asked point blank I included the state of israel but hey.. Why give a fuck about facts when there are inuendos to suggest?


I'm vested for the sake of humanity. If only more dirty ass goyim like me were around in 1945, eh?

 

[AllieBaba]

The natives didn't own land.

They own land now, though.

 

[Shogun]

indeed, not having a deed written in engrish probably disqualifies 10k years of life there too.


and dont EVEN get me started on how not wearing shoes validated the trail of tears!

 

[AllieBaba]

Yup, so sad.

Unfortunately, all of us have sad chapters in our genetic history. It does not mean the genetic descendants are responsible. If it did, you'd have a lot of really pissed off viking, brit, Turk, Asian, etc. descendants.

Cuz they'd all have to bow to our forefathers from...Africa? And they'd be forever paying off all the redheaded descendants of coastal people the world over.

 

[Shogun]

so.. we can IGNORE ancient history of every one else besides the 2000 year old claim by the jews.


gotcha.


double standard? noooooooooo..

 

[AllieBaba]

No, it's not the same. America is not and never has been the middle east.

Thank goodness.

 

[jillian]

just like the native DIDNT OWN THE LAND, jillian. For real, your circular arguments are getting tired.

DIFFERENT standard? what is so different about DESERGRATION in WESTERN NATIONS? Funny, you claim israel is western when it suits you but... when it DOESNT...

Hey, I invite you to QUOTE ME where I've ever stated that israel should not exist.. Hell, I could remind you that when asked point blank I included the state of israel but hey.. Why give a fuck about facts when there are inuendos to suggest?


I'm vested for the sake of humanity. If only more dirty ass goyim like me were around in 1945, eh?

When did I ever call you names like "dirty ass goyim". I don't even think garbage like that, so attributing it to me as a means of deflecting the legitimate points I raised isn't very productive.

In 1945, after 10 million people were killed (6 million jews and 5 million catholics, gays and assorted other German citizenry who also were too stupid to get out) you'd have been clamoring for a State of Israel because it was the right thing to do and no one else took the boats, did they?

Now, where is your criticism for Israel over the fact that it's been the only country to take in refugees from Darfur? The only country to take in the Falasha from Ethiopia. the only country to take in Soviet Jews. Jordan should have done as much for its palestinian refugees, don't you think?

Yeah, Israel really sucks.

 

[Dr Grump]

Muslim nations don't claim to be WESTERN, do they, jill? You sure are having a logic problem today, aren't you? Have I ever suggested that Saudi Arabia should remain the way it is? Maybe you can quote me suggesting as much.. OR, if you don't feel like making as much effort to prove your silly inuendo I bet calling me a jew hating antisemite will suffice..

So because Muslim countries aren't westernised you give them a free pass to be racist hellholes, but Israelis must commit hari kari? How benevolent of you..

 

[Dr Grump]

If Israel allows the right of return within 100 years there will be more arabs than Jews. This means if the country is still a democracy and people vote along ethnic lines, the arabs will run the place and there will be a civil war or Israel will cease to exist via the ballot box. So, what happens then? Do the likes of you - shouting on the sidelines with no dog in the fight - then get all morally outraged at the plight of the Jews?

Are you kidding me? Is that how the WHITES act today? Are there NO NATIONAL MEASURES to keep that from happening? are you familair with OUR constitution at ALL? You do realize that OURS was weighted in white mans favor, right? That it has since become protection for ALL americans despite race, right? What kind of bullshit paranoid crap are you trying to use as an excuse, due? Your statement sounds EXACTLY like the reason blacks weren't allowed to own guns. for real.. this is your second voyage into racist paranoia that we see every time a dominant population doesn't want to stop subjugating the minority. I didn't realize Bunker was a jewish surname..

Are you on something? Seriously? You are somehow trying to equate ME politics with US politics?? That's it. I'm done and dusted. You're too stupid and/or ignorant and/or trolling to have a half decent conversation with. You have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsover...

Your whole argument is: Israel should cease to exist because they should not be there...

 

[Shogun]

When did I ever call you names like "dirty ass goyim". I don't even think garbage like that, so attributing it to me as a means of deflecting the legitimate points I raised isn't very productive.

When have I ever REMOTELY suggested that it's jews, and not israeli racism, that I have a problem with? That certainly doesn't keep your lame assed inuendos from popping up to suggest as much. Hey, why don't YOU quote where I've come even slightly close to hating on jews and I'll quote your inuendos and we can see which of us is actually making a valid point? I mean, you can always AVOID the uncomfortable questions while slipping in some silly fucking assertion about my motivations and I can always beat you to the big bad A word. Indeed, considering your total lack of consideration to my POSTED EVIDENCE probably makes you an expert on what isn't very productive.

In 1945, after 10 million people were killed (6 million jews and 5 million catholics, gays and assorted other German citizenry who also were too stupid to get out) you'd have been clamoring for a State of Israel because it was the right thing to do and no one else took the boats, did they?

No, I would not have been clamoring for a racist state of an ethnically pure chosen race. You see, I'm not the kind of person who makes excuses for segregation and I don't require the infamous jew hating excuse to kick jews out of my country. I would have insisted that GERMANY take back their GERMAN jews instead of pretending that muslims in the mid east were going to willingly pay the price for your zionist hardon. See, that's the difference between you and I: You rely on racism to VALIDATE israel while I find racism repulsive even if it delivers your burning bush myth on a silver platter. So, again, if YOU can say that the pals DESERVE their plight (fuck em, right?) because they dont CHOOSE to play according to the rules of their persicutors then, similarly, you shoudl also be able to say that the victims of the holocaust are partly responsible for landing in a concentration camp. After all, (donning my best Jillian impression) "jews CHOSE not to leave when told to do so and could have skipped the holocaust entirely by the virtue of their own stubbornness and unwillingness to see that germans wanted an ethnically PURE nation", right? After all, if you can fathom an ethnically pure israel for JEWS then surely, SURELY you extend the same consideration to we dirty fucking goyim, right?

Now, where is your criticism for Israel over the fact that it's been the only country to take in refugees from Darfur? The only country to take in the Falasha from Ethiopia. the only country to take in Soviet Jews. Jordan should have done as much for its palestinian refugees, don't you think?
Yeah, Israel really sucks.


HA!

talk about strawmaning the arguement! HAHAHAHAHA! Yes, DARFEUR refugees TOTALLY make up for the pal refugees standing right outside the fucking doorway! SURE, Jill. sure. Indeed, why is it that the keyword in who they took back was ([insert national] JEWS)?

and yes, I bet the non-jews perspective who gets to live every day paying the price for european racism and jewish zionism israel DOES suck. But, hey, no one expected a white dude in 1955 to think America was a hotbed of racial iniquity either so your refusal to even acknowledge the shit in israel isn't really all that surprising.

 

[Shogun]

So because Muslim countries aren't westernised you give them a free pass to be racist hellholes, but Israelis must commit hari kari? How benevolent of you..

I don't give anyone a free pass. Maybe YOU want to dig up my posts that illustrate a younger generation standing up to Iranian status quo? No? Is it easier to insist bullshit instead of using my own words to decipher my motivation? I take israel to task because ISRAEL, not saudi arabia, CLAIMS TO BE A WESTERN DEMOCRACY. If you accept ethnic criteria in a western democracy then so be it.. but Pulling the Wookie arguement won't make you any less of a dipshit zionist enabler. Here, let me illustrate since you seem to need a teaching aid:


WESTERN NATIONS
Do NOT have an ethnic requirement for citizenship.

Do NOT favor a single ethnic group

WILL ALLOW MORE THAN THE MAJORITY RACE TO PARTICIPATE IN GOVERNMENT

DOES NOT MAKE EXCUSES regarding racist discrimination

DOES NOT INVALIDATE an election when the results don't mathc your hopeful projection

NON-western nations
DO have an ethnic requirement for citizenship

DOES favor a single ethnic group

WILL NOT allow anyone other than the majority ethnic race to participate in Govenrment

MAKES EVERY EXCUSE available for the exclusive RIGHTS of a particular ethnicity

WILL invalidate election results if they are not acceptable.



Maybe if you print that out and laminate it you can use it like Flash Cards! I won't even ask you to guess which category sounds more like israel since, CLEARLY, nothing short of the sun blowing up will make you apply the same human standard to zionists that you will to muslims in half a heartbeat.


Say, if you'd like we can sit and generalize about muslims all day today.. you know, since they are not wrong if they are true and all. Hell, maybe we can even go over some NAtive American history together and you can learn a few things about history repeating itself!

 

[Shogun]

Are you on something? Seriously? You are somehow trying to equate ME politics with US politics?? That's it. I'm done and dusted. You're too stupid and/or ignorant and/or trolling to have a half decent conversation with. You have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsover...

Your whole argument is: Israel should cease to exist because they should not be there...

No, IM not trying to equate US politics with ME politics. I'm trying to apply the same WESTERN standard that the rest of us WESTERN NATIONS accept to a nation in the mid east that CLAIMS TO BE WESTERN BUT IS CLEARLY NOT. But hey, I bet if you cry like a bitch and avoid the logic some more this Scarlet A on my sleeve will seem easier rationalized than facing my posted evidence. I'm sure you are done. go read a book instead of handing out black checks that perpetuate a human standard that you would not fucking tolerate if the very same were being used AGAINST the jews.


Like I said.. Don't be bitter because I handed you your ass yesterday on two occasions. Learn from your mistake and move on. Hell, if you lame bastards would have addressed the EVIDENCE that i've been posting instead of running to the easy Antisemite gun then you probably could have circumvented looking like s total fucking fool for trying to ratinalize stereotypes and being completely fucking ignorant about this same process happening to the Natives in America.


As it is, not a single one of you zionist enablers have come close to proving me wrong outside of demonizing my motivations. Congrats, you've just become what you claim to hate in your political antithesis.

 

[jillian]

You know, you didn't come close to handing him anything. I think it's insane when the right-wingers start that crap. Coming from you on this issue where you've been shown to do nothing but rant, it's pretty laughable.

 

[Shogun]

You know, you didn't come close to handing him anything. I think it's insane when the right-wingers start that crap. Coming from you on this issue where you've been shown to do nothing but rant, it's pretty laughable.

Laughable like your total avoidance to anything beyond typical zionist rhetoric? Say, WHICH OF US is the one using evidence instead of the Scarlet A again?

oh.. yea.. silly me.



And, I realize that you'll throw your support behind anyone willing to polish the israeli turd but I busted his ass wide open yesterday on two points: rationalizing generalizations and his ignorance regarding the DEAL that the natives didn't accept which still led to the trail of tears.. I would have expected you to catch that if it were a topic critical of bush but.. given the difference and your willingness to be inconsistent when the chosen homeland is concerned....

Indeed, claim that the only guy posting EVIDENCE is ranting while you add 0 to your sum total of 0 non-rhetorical label inuendos..

 

[Paulie]

So a state for Israelis should NOT exist, isn't that what is being said by the 2 last posters?

Of course not. Or, I should say, of course it should. It just shouldn't be pursued and supported by Zionism, that's all. I can only speak for myself here, but when I talk about Zionism, and why I don't support it, I mean in terms of HOW they go about their agenda. Basically, to sum it up, it's done through the barrel of a gun. Much like the current US foreign policy.

Ever since Zionism, there's never been a viable attempt to solve the issue PEACEFULLY. Maybe it has been reported as such, but it really hasn't been. As long as the Palestinians are perceived as violent, Zionists will always be able to claim extra concession.

There is so much information that can be read to put away the ridiculous claim that being anti-zionist is automatically to be perceived as being anti-semitic.

 

[eots]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... so Israel shouldn't exist for the purpose it was created. It should be some pathetic protectorate and not be soverign... it should give the palestinians a do-over.

Again. The Palestinians weren't ousted. They didn't control or *own* that land. It was nebulous... it was the only place in the mid-east with no oil. Why do you think that Europe decided to plant the Jewish refugees there. Like any other victor in war, Europe had the right to do what it wanted. Same as when it created Iraq... the UAE... etc. You complaining about those countries?

BTW, I don't find the term zionist an insult.

Nice dodge, btw, trying to hold Israel to some different standard so it no longer exists... cool. Duplicitous, but cool.

BTW, did you ever respond as to why you're so vested in this issue?

Israel has a right to exist but not in palistine..perhapes we could give them a fresh start and they can have Utah

 

[Annie]

Of course not. Or, I should say, of course it should. It just shouldn't be pursued and supported by Zionism, that's all. I can only speak for myself here, but when I talk about Zionism, and why I don't support it, I mean in terms of HOW they go about their agenda. Basically, to sum it up, it's done through the barrel of a gun. Much like the current US foreign policy.

Ever since Zionism, there's never been a viable attempt to solve the issue PEACEFULLY. Maybe it has been reported as such, but it really hasn't been. As long as the Palestinians are perceived as violent, Zionists will always be able to claim extra concession.

There is so much information that can be read to put away the ridiculous claim that being anti-zionist is automatically to be perceived as being anti-semitic.

Have you seen any way other than with force, which has been used only in reaction to aggression against it, that Israel would be able to exist? I'd like to know what 'land' would be kept by any country if it didn't have the 'force' to keep others from overrunning it?